ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[Charlot123]

I am kind of curious about what peoples thoughts are regarding the murder, or murders in this case.

1. Do you believe they are local and are still in the area? (Considering college students as locals)
2. Local but no longer in the area?
3. Transient (Passing thru)?
4. From out of town and came to Moscow for this specific purpose?

I don’t think he is “local local”, maybe a neighbor; but there is some connection to Idaho (parents, a second home, something else).

Of locals, I don’t have a poi nor am I implying anyone specific. However, the version of a high schooler or a college student, soon to move out, is not unlikely for any crime, as people fly under all radars in such cases. It could potentially be a college student who is planning to graduate in December. Then you go home for the long vacation, to return to graduate (if that) and move somewhere else for a job. You leave the place behind.

Another situation I am thinking of is how many people are working remotely now (so no one really watches them), and how many used to visit Idaho during COVID because ID differed from, say, WA. People might have a reason to visit ID to look for a house to relocate, and Moscow is on the list of the most attractive cities for this purpose. Most movers to ID come from California (about 1/3), 10% from WA, 6% - accordingly, from OR, TX and AZ. So even to go house searching several times won’t attract anyone’s attention, and the killer might be sincerely looking for a place to relocate, and have “hobby on the side”.

Also, the winter sports; I asked myself how many people are having a second home next to a resort, they’d spend a couple of weeks in Idaho and go back home, and none the wiser.

Not to forget that part of Yellowstone is in Idaho.

This person has a reason to visit, but I am not sure they are local.

 

[L.laricina]

Businesses have different fire codes than a residence will. If you’re in good enough shape to unlock your door in case of fire, I think you’ll remember to remove the door wedge too. If you’re unconscious, the fire department can easily break your windows to get inside and get you out. Personally, I just need something to wake me up a few seconds before an attacker gets near me. I still might not survive, but I will have a much better chance if I wake up as he’s breaching the interior vs. entering my bedroom.

I was surprised, myself, when I heard about our Fire Marshall's order. I feel as you do, but you and I aren't everyone else and, in a panic, or if the person is a child, they may miss a door wedge and not be able to egress from a burning building. It makes sense to me that officials would not publicly recommend that people block a means of egress in this way.

The hard truth is that we are vulnerable in our sleep. We use an alarm system at my place, with cameras that emit a deterrent alarm and if doors or windows are breached the main alarm goes off immediately when the system is armed. Nothing is perfect, though.

 

[otto]

Further South. You’re looking for Shetland Ct; there is a path which almost looks like it would construct appropriately with your marking from Taylor. The physical path ends on Ridge, so it’s more of a reference point/s.

How does Shetland Court connect to the mass murder at 1122 King Road?

 

[Allabouttrial]

I think you are correct, but there was initial reporting that LE was questioning local shop owners as to this specific blade.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article268833397.html

I have no reason to question the integrity of these reports, or that of the news outlet which made them, so I take them at face value.

Oh yes, of course. I just wanted to be sure as I believe you mentioned that LE had said they were looking for that specific brand.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Businesses have different fire codes than a residence will. If you’re in good enough shape to unlock your door in case of fire, I think you’ll remember to remove the door wedge too. If you’re unconscious, the fire department can easily break your windows to get inside and get you out. Personally, I just need something to wake me up a few seconds before an attacker gets near me. I still might not survive, but I will have a much better chance if I wake up as he’s breaching the interior vs. entering my bedroom.

Commercial rental properties have codes too

Another thing about these kinives is that there are a lot of them in circulation. They were originally issued for WWII and the military purchased so many that they were issued through the Korean War. The design has also been available in civilian markets for at least that long.

KA-BAR Inc.

KA-BAR has a history as a leading military knife producer. The KABAR USMC knife was a general issue knife to marines in World War II. Today KA-BAR produces not only combat knives, but high quality hunting knives, and all-purpose utility knives.

www.kabar.com

Another common mass produced object like the car in the murder. The knife

 

[rahod1]

I think the same pathological over confidence possessed by this murderer that allowed him to walk into a home occupied by 6 human beings and a dog and kill 4 of them with a knife will also be his downfall. That type of trait would be difficult to suppress. He almost certainly believes he will never get caught and probably still has his precious knife and possibly the car LE is seeking if it was in fact his.

I’ll bet someone he knows has suspicions about him and just needs to pull the trigger on dropping a tip. Mom? Boss? Co-worker? Roommate? I hate to think of him having a wife or girlfriend, but maybe he does.

MOO

Great point. Unless this person is a true *loaner*, there are friends/family/casual acquaintances/ who may suspect something.
Then again, you the have the BTK SERIAL KILLER who had a family.
Dennis Rader - Wikipedia

"Rader was a member of Christ Lutheran Church in Wichita and had been elected president of the church council. He was also a Cub Scout leader"

 

[Parsnip]

For anyone interested in speculating about the murderer’s profession (or lack thereof), please read and contribute. If you are not, feel free to scroll on by.

I see this murderer as an employed man in a stereotypically male profession…one which has some risk, where hand tools are used, and where he does not have to interact often with others. I also see him as able to move around geographically a fair amount. He is accustomed to uncomfortable circumstances. I am thinking about some sort of skilled labor, like welding, tree trimming, roofing. I can’t see him holding a job for very much longer than some months because he has obvious disdain for other people. He may even prefer solitary work or third shift to minimize his interactions. He’s reliable, experienced, and good at what he does. He’s probably been at it for some time, maybe placing him in his thirties.

Do any of you have some thoughts?

MOO.

Edited for poor grammar

 

[Parsnip]

Great point. Unless this person is a true *loaner*, there are friends/family/casual acquaintances/ who may suspect something.
Then again, you the have the BK SERIAL KILLER who had a family.
Dennis Rader - Wikipedia

"Rader was a member of Christ Lutheran Church in Wichita and had been elected president of the church council. He was also a Cub Scout leader"

Just replying to say hey @rahod1 !! Nice to see you here!

 

[MntnHiker]

If the killer specifically wanted to target the house/roommates on a quiet night without parties, I can think of two ways they would do so:

1) They would routinely pass by the house (in car, on foot) and basically stalked it until the time appeared right.
2) They live within eyeshot of the house and can just look out a window and see/hear if there are a lot of guests over or if the house is quiet and dark.
MOO

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

If you are the right type of person, you can google "forensic knife wound patterns" or similar (or go to scholar.google.com). Regular google has more pictures, of course.

Someone posted a forensic picture here, early on (of a wound inflicted by a specific size Ka-Bar knife, in which the hilt bruise was clearly visible). Naturally, not every single use of a knife is going to leave crisp forensic evidence, but I do believe it's very easy to know the length of the knife and whether it had a hilt, as well as (usually) the approximate size and shape of the hilt. That's why LE went looking for Ka-Bar or Ka-Bar style knives in the first days after the murder (to at least two different stores - it's on the media thread).

Bruising is not uncommon in a stabbing - not having bruising would be unusual, especially with a hilted knife. The point is, that's the very type of thing forensics people use to figure out what knife was used (and LE act as if they have clues on this).

Further, the existence of bruises next to the knife wound says a lot about the force used.

I'm reluctant to post any articles or pictures here, but you can easily find them with various search terms. "Stab Wound Analysis" should turn up an excellent page with the list of things a coroner is supposed to measure about a wound - and it talks about the impression of the hilt on the skin, which along with other things, can often narrow the knife type down to just a few. It's quite a long list of evidence, actually, just from one knife wound.

I've always assumed that since LE went, within just a few days, to local stores inquiring about a particular knife, that the hilt bruises and taper analysis of the wounds gave them a good idea what knife it was.

LOL - I agree with you. I’ll also add LE checked with other local stores with respect to sales of large fixed blade knives — they just haven’t spoken to press.

Not to bash MBS at all - my better half absentmindedly left his money clip near a register some time back. MBS reviewed their security footage, found footage of the person who made off with it, IDed the culprit, & got the money clip back (absent the cash). Had the knife been purchased there during a decent time frame, I have no doubt security footage would have been invaluable!

Sorry for not being clearer: I was specifically interested in your focus on bruising with respect to K only?

 

[gliving]

people are saying "it is not grandma's car," but if the killer used a relative's car between 2 and 4 a.m., and the car is not used regularly anyway, who would know?

Good point but LE asked if anyone saw the car on the days preceding and up to the day of the murders. And then "poof".

 

[hopewell]

The main thrust of the police statement re the car is that they want info on driver and occupants the day of or shortly before the murders. Everything else seems to be more or less an afterthought. One would think they'd be interested in anyone that had seen such a car -since- the murders.

IMO, they have the car, quite possibly with blood in it. However, it was stolen some time shortly before the murders, so they don't know who was driving it that night.

I hope so!

 

[nisco]

I am kind of curious about what peoples thoughts are regarding the murder, or murders in this case.

1. Do you believe they are local and are still in the area? (Considering college students as locals)
2. Local but no longer in the area?
3. Transient (Passing thru)?
4. From out of town and came to Moscow for this specific purpose?

Local, non-student, still in the area. Just my personal leaning, but could easily be wrong on all 3 counts!

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think the same pathological over confidence possessed by this murderer that allowed him to walk into a home occupied by 6 human beings and a dog and kill 4 of them with a knife will also be his downfall. That type of trait would be difficult to suppress. He almost certainly believes he will never get caught and probably still has his precious knife and possibly the car LE is seeking if it was in fact his.

I’ll bet someone he knows has suspicions about him and just needs to pull the trigger on dropping a tip. Mom? Boss? Co-worker? Roommate? I hate to think of him having a wife or girlfriend, but maybe he does.

MOO

He might well be someone who is already considered a bit odd, a loner, and disregarded by mainstream society and relatively overlooked as a suspect because they're already pretty much an outcast or considered eccentric. Whoever did this did something different than their usual routine and most definitely had some blood on their hands and arms and probably feet to worry about, as well as footprints, so they did something they wouldn't normally do with their clothes and shoes. So, someone somewhere will have noticed something different about them. Also they may be taking an interest in the news reports whereas maybe isn't usually the sort of person to take any notice of mainstream media or news.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

How does Shetland Court connect to the mass murder at 1122 King Road?

View attachment 386476

No relation. I just found it odd when looking at possible entrances and exists from the addresses detectives were looking for footage from that if you took the Shetland path completely N, without veering for the road (think on foot, post Ridge/Walenta) and in a hypothetical sense, it runs through 1122, the steps in front of 1122, and on to Taylor, near the fire hydrant.

Obviously there’s houses and terrain which interrupt the path, so it’s more of a directional reference in case of bad lighting, unfamiliar with the layout, etc.

 

[otto]

So, the timing of the assaults, on a quiet night is of interest ? A person with knowledge of this may take the opportunity. Or the people of the house had by chance drew the person to them ?

A question to ask is why all four ?

Purposeful, or by chance, reactionary until they met their intent.

I think the murders on the second floor were reactionary in the sense that most intruders would check the house right away for people in the living room before going up or downstairs. An intruder might also check the two second floor bedrooms and bathroom, expecting them to be empty. Regardless, both people in one of the bedrooms on the second floor were murdered.

That's why it seems like the main floor victims were first. After clearing possible interference from the second floor, the suspect continued to the location of the target ... police said this was a targeted murder. If the target was not the residence, then it was one of the victims. Since it's most likely that the second floor victims were killed first, and neither was the target, then the target must have been upstairs.

I think the killer knew that the target was on the third floor after observing the house from the public parking on the hill behind the house.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Not to sure about the USA. But in Britain we have multiple cameras that detect all cars and number plates in many areas (due to evasion of road tax and not having an MOT) Perhaps the car that the LE are seeking is on camera ?

Number plate recognition as per UK road standards is done by AI and street cameras, however, there is military grade intelligence gathering that can use satellite images to do the same and it's been around for decades already. I'd imagine the streets in a college town have way better road cameras and AI NPR that we have in the UK, JMO MOO

 

[XtremeScorpio]

Missed one from yesterday!

TRANSCRIPT OF BRIEF INTERVIEW WITH CHIEF FRY

(White car and harassment)

9TH DECEMBER.

Reporter - We'll start with the white car. How many tips are coming in?, and, How are police using them?.

Chief - We've had an amazing amount of tips come in on the white car. We appreciate everybody's help that has been sending in those tips and investigators are vetting those and they're following up on those and the response has been very great. We appreciate all the help from across the nation, and our community.

Reporter - In some cases we're hearing that people are borderline being harassed by speculation and rumours out there. What are police doing about that?.

Chief - Well, what we want people to know is, is that individuals who are being harassed in this situation - people need to be careful, because some of its happening online, some of its happening through phone calls and in person and people could be charged, possibly, in the future if it continues to a point where it reaches a criminal element.

Reporter - What can people do to help that situation?.

Chief - I think number 1, just call us anytime that there's any of that happening, so that we can deal with that immediately.

Reporter - And what about the information - What is being done to make sure the information that is out there is not causing speculation and rumours?.

Chief - You know, there's been a lot of speculation and rumours and what we want to say is, we're the official source of information. We want people to pay attention to what we're putting out there, because that is accurate information and anything that comes from other sources, is either rumour or speculation and we want to put and end to that as soon as possible.

Thank you for posting this! I saw it yesterday but didn't save the link.

Yesterday I had posted expressing how interesting I found that (per the Chief) they were receiving tips on the white car from across the nation. I took that to mean that the cars they were receiving tips from across the nation were on white cars across the nation. But reading thru the transcript, maybe it meant that the tips received (from far & wide) were just about white cars in and/or around ID, and maybe surrounding area (for the time frame they stated)??

I know it's really neither here or there, but it almost pains me to think that every white Elantra owner, or child/friend/neighbor/family member of white Elantra owner (of the years specified by LE) had called that tip line. It would take so much from this investigation to follow up on that many tips.

JMO

 

[Simply Southern]

Yes, I mentioned the titling database in my post, however not all states even report to it yet, and don't have to report the make/model or color. There are limitations to how it can be used based on what information they already have and where the car was registered. Which was the point of my post.

I did a bit of research, I didn't see any states excluded, I checked Virginia, Vermont, Idaho and California. All allow Billl of Sale in lieu of title and reading the detail they are required to issue/recreate a title, before a state can issue to tag. Keep in mind the federal government owns most roads and heavily funds state and local. This is a federal required.

If you know of a state they does not participate Is be very interested to research.

It appears all the data from several agencies are extracted under the authority of the DOJ and DOT. These are refered to as, common working files, they are down loaded into a centralized data base nightly. Certain federal, state and local agencies have authority to access these records.

A good example ....ever been stopped out of state for a road check and they ask for your license and registration? LE runs the registration thru this national data base. Its a very used system, with many capabilities.

Moo...

 

[TravellingCat]

So....maybe they have the car. Possibly found miles away. Maybe went back and scanned video saw the car.

Reminds me of the Jayme Closs case. They had a very bad, grainy image of a vechile, with several potential cars descriptions and color. It was crowdsourced months later. It WAS the car, and she was in it.

100% MO, the person/s in the vehicle is the killer/s.

The governor has awarded 1 million, to the investigation; the college enrollment/future is riding in finding the killer, the town relies on the college for survival. Its national news and doesn't seem to be "going away". I'm betting every politician in the state is applying pressure to resolve this case. I'm 100% convinced the FBI, US Marshall, Quantico, the state crime lab, ISP, have any and all resources available.

Moo

I thought maybe they had the vehicle too until I read this article. "The Moscow Police Department told Fox News Digital that the vehicle was spotted near the crime scene in the early morning hours of Nov. 13, and investigators believe the person or people who were in that car at the time may have information that could be important to their investigation. Police do not have a license plate number for the car, which is why they are asking for the public's help in tracking it down."

Either an eyewitness or a camera picked up the vehicle in the area, not having the license plate certainly complicates tracking the car. If recovery of a stolen vehicle is basically a coin toss on average, I don't love the odds.