ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[newredtabby]

This is the thing that is fascinating to me. They don't have a suspect so they claim, yet they are warning students this weekend to stay in groups because the Moscow PD thinks the killer might strike again this weekend. This whole case is weird.

The Moscow PD has not stated that. Clickbait headlines have, but not LE.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

How could they be stabbed in the chest & upper body if sleeping on their stomach?

True, just thought upper body could include the back, that chest & upper body doesn’t necessarily exclude the back, it’s the upper body, but we’ll find out soon enough, jmo.

 

[10ofRods]

Question: If you have blood or DNA from the killer, but he/she has never had crimes where their DNA was collected, how do they find out who the DNA is from? I know little about how DNA works.

Genealogical DNA research would be the top answer. If they do have DNA, they can run it through GEDMatch and find a few relatives (maybe 4-5 generations ago). Then using genealogical techniques, they can create a list of possible living suspects.

In the case of Joe DeAngelo (Golden State Killer, aka EARONS), this process took a while (a couple of years?) and a professional genealogist, who was able to help LE narrow the suspects down to two people of the right age and locale.

Then, LE had to find a way (without a warrant) to get Joe's DNA (from his car handle).

So, there is a shorter process. If you think you know who the suspect is AND you actually have significant DNA - then go get the suspect's DNA, somehow. Maybe he rode in someone's Elantra at some point, but left no DNA at the scene - it will still help locate him in space (prove he'd been in the immediate area).

 

[24Brix]

We don’t know exactly where the car was parked or seen. Also, we are assuming the killer was “drenched” in blood. He may have had some blood on him, but maybe not as much as we think he/she did

Indeed. And even if the killer ended up “horror movie bloody”, there’s a high likelihood they were wearing dark clothes — especially if this was premeditated. And wearing layers, given it was cold that night. Blood on black could just appear as wetness to anyone unaware of what just happened. Or it could mostly be under outerwear. Surely their face and hands could be wiped with something to appear clean enough to avoid suspicion if they were casually encountered in passing by someone with no need to be suspicious.

Maybe the killer shed that jacket behind the fire hydrant planning to cover up any blood after the deed was done but was so agitated after the attack that he forgot about it. An error like that wouldn’t be surprising at all. I sure hope LE did ultimately take it into evidence.

I do think that, given the small size of those bedrooms, there’s a good chance one or more of the attacks may have occurred after the victim, cornered, tried to instinctively escape the ongoing assault by dropping into the crevice between the bed and the wall. We have a tendency to instinctively back away from an attack even if we’re groggy with sleep or alcohol or drugs. This victims were essentially cornered and retreated as best they could, IMO.

I do think that could also explain the rivulets of blood on the foundation wall. (Yes, I’m in the “it’s blood” camp.) Someone trapped between the bed and the wall basically bleeding out on the baseboard. Ugh. It upsets me to even type these thoughts.

The above is all conjecture and 100% MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

How could they be stabbed in the chest & upper body if sleeping on their stomach?

Upper body includes the upper part of the back. Same region as "the chest" but on the back.

Upper body also includes the armpit area. I'd say it's the T-vertebrae area and above up to the beginning of the cervical vertebrae, typically. On all sides.

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

yeah... he did not kill anyone alone
how big a group would be safe?

It seems important to know if the suspect was familiar or observant in order to carry out their execution without being caught.

 

[mendicant]

I do think that could also explain the rivulets of blood on the foundation wall. (Yes, I’m in the “it’s blood” camp.) Someone trapped between the bed and the wall basically bleeding out on the baseboard. Ugh. It upsets me to even type these thoughts.

snip
Indeed. Suggests near-decapitation.
(Perhaps why I cling to the "not blood" option.)

 

[accordn2me]

I was thinking of this group mostly in the concept of serial killers - they have lots of skills, the reason to travel and are usually alone for the whole day. Visiting populous towns would make them uncomfortable, but bars - they like, as alcohol works for social anxiety.

I have another question. What about these incessant stories, basically, in every case, about LE visiting local stores to ask it anyone bought knives, etc. I am thinking - what is the best place to shop for anything, local stores or Amazon with its huge bulk of sales? Maybe even Costco. I definitely would not purchase in a tiny store if I wanted to be forgotten. I don't know about Amazon's digital trail, but Costco is a good place.

Stealing one would be your best incognito route to not getting traced.

 

[WildWest]

maybe he works on cars or works in a parts/junk yard type place or long term parking and has access to different vehicles, just an idea IMO

Thought crossed my mind maybe a disgruntled car dealership where K bought her car was incensed by her, and used an Elantra off the used lot or one they'd taken in as a trade recently. We know K was at her families home the week before she was killed, so I wonder about a Coeur d'Alene dealership or another in the area. Could have even been a delivery driver from an online car site.

 

[katieconcerned]

There was an incident similar to this at the University of Montana about 8 years ago. It was a completely random knife attack at the 3 students off campus apartment. Luckily they were able to call 911 and no one died. But they were awake when he broke in and one victim was a tall big football player. He was stabbed 45 times and luckily recovered fully.https://www.havredailynews.com/story/2015/11/06/local/brown-signs-deal-in-stabbing-case/506289.html

 

[TIGER0822]

I don’t get it at all. After brutally butchering two people, he goes and finds two more. It looks like he came in the glass slider doors and did quite a bit of back and forth walking in the house.
Cold blooded, deliberate, focused.

 

[Moonsie]

I think the chance is high. Question is, is it a local serial killer? Or someone who travels to Idaho, for whatever reason?

I read many times that SK "hunt" not so far from home. Israel Keys seems to be an outlier, but maybe not. It is quite possible that he simply moved frequently due to work, and his kills were not that far from periodic abodes.

So a serial killer who ends up in a student town, who could he be?

*respectfully snipped by me*

Thoughtful commentary like this is exactly what brought me to websleuths, and why I have stayed.

*If* this case involves a SK (which is unlikely but still possible), I also thought it could be someone with a brief reason to be in Moscow, but not be from the area.

- traveling salesperson
- seasonal worker
- someone who has a relative here, maybe older (?), perhaps with a vehicle in storage?
- someone who has a child attending UofI () - again unlikely but who knows
- etc.

If LE believes this is the work of a SK, this is a definite possibility.

moo.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

I was thinking of this group mostly in the concept of serial killers - they have lots of skills, the reason to travel and are usually alone for the whole day. Visiting populous towns would make them uncomfortable, but bars - they like, as alcohol works for social anxiety.

I have another question. What about these incessant stories, basically, in every case, about LE visiting local stores to ask it anyone bought knives, etc. I am thinking - what is the best place to shop for anything, local stores or Amazon with its huge bulk of sales? Maybe even Costco. I definitely would not purchase in a tiny store if I wanted to be forgotten. I don't know about Amazon's digital trail, but Costco is a good place.

Costco is a terrible place. I was just there today and of course, like every other time i've been there, I have to scan my costco card to check out. There is a digital trail.

 

[drmrgrl]

I think the same pathological over confidence possessed by this murderer that allowed him to walk into a home occupied by 6 human beings and a dog and kill 4 of them with a knife will also be his downfall. That type of trait would be difficult to suppress. He almost certainly believes he will never get caught and probably still has his precious knife and possibly the car LE is seeking if it was in fact his.

I’ll bet someone he knows has suspicions about him and just needs to pull the trigger on dropping a tip. Mom? Boss? Co-worker? Roommate? I hate to think of him having a wife or girlfriend, but maybe he does.

MOO

That’s called arrogance

Not in the area.

local.live in Moscow. Drive for work

 

[Ozoner]

There other parameters you can do on a database query.

Gender, Age etc

Gender cuts the query in half, at least

Age cuts the query even further

If the perpetrator has used someone else's vehicle...

AIMOO

The trouble is, many young people drive vehicles that are registered to their parents or other relatives (and he might have boosted a car or borrowed a car from a sleeping roommate or girlfriend).

I think that the perp probably lives in Latah County or across the state in Whitman County in Washington. (Moscow Idaho is very close to the state line.) There probably aren't many white Elantras registered in those two counties, but even if the perp does live in one of those counties, that's no guarantee that the vehicle is registered there. Many students only live in the Moscow area during the school year, and their vehicles might be registered in their home towns.

I'm sure that the cops are looking at every single white Elantra in the vicinity, however. (I'm not sure whether they can easily tell which ones are white; I doubt that the car color is specified on the vehicle registration.) That might be a Herculean task. They'll probably try to link the car to someone with a criminal record, but I think that we're dealing with a young offender who won't have a criminal record as an adult and might not have a juvenile record, either. I think that he's committed crimes before—possibly some extremely brutal crimes—but I don't think that he's been caught. He was very self-assured in committing these murders, and to me that indicates someone who has never faced justice for much of anything.

 

[layer]

Not the first time I've seen someone mention this, and I have to ask... does this actually happen? I have some decent chef's knives, and I can't imagine the tips breaking off under any scenario.

They can. High carbon steel is more vulnerable to breakage than stainless. It's harder, keeps it's edge much longer, while stainless tends to bend or roll over.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

Even if we do know the lights were turned off at a specific time we do not know who turned them off. The girls may of fell asleep with the lights on and the killer turned them off as he entered the room.

We really know almost nothing about the details of this crime.

Well knowing that the last call K placed to J was at 2:58a.m. Thus would coincide with what appears to be the bedroom light turning off at 3a.m. (IMO).

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

That’s called arrogance

local.live in Moscow. Drive for wor

That’s called arrogance

local.live in Moscow. Drive for work

Perhaps now, I am leaning toward local, familiar, not close, not campus resident.

A person close enough to be aware of a quiet night at the residence.

 

[drmrgrl]

Hate to be pedantic, and maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe LE have ever named the brand of the knife used.

Early on there were reports from a local store that LE were asking about one, but AFAIK that's all that has been mentioned as far as the brand is concerned.

Yes. I remember large knife or “edged weapon”

 

[crimesnooper]

A Red Herring??
Is it possible the white car revelation is only a very small part of the investigation yet it has caused the "sleuths" to focus on something rather than the performance of LE. The white car search has now "united" LE with the sleuths in looking for something that can possibly help solve the case. The focus is now on is the car repainted; at the bottom of a lake or abandoned on a forest road; what type of records at the DMV are available etc etc.

Just sayin'

Well, I for one feel ready to move on from discussing the car any more until further developments. I think everyone has offered great insights but every angle has possibly been covered.