ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 29

[julesocean]

Idaho murders: Father of slain victim says she had 'big open wounds,' calls police 'cowards'

Slain Idaho college student Kaylee Goncalves' father exclusively told Fox News Digital that the victims had "big open gouges" that were made by a "sadistic male."

www.foxnews.com

"Father of slain victim says she had 'big open wounds."

"Goncalves said his daughter's injuries "definitely did not match" M's wounds. "They may have individually died from the exact same thing, being stabbed, but there are more details," he added. "They're not even close to matching."

MOO, I took a criminology course and learned that generally, when there's a mass stabbing, the first victim will sustain the worst wounds. K's father has eluded that this was the case. How did he reach this conclusion? Would E and X's family share this info with K's father? IMO, highly unlikely.

That is not unlikely at all, behind close doors if there is anything you can do to share information about your kid's passing that you know, parent to parent, it is actually likely. The father being so distraught that he started leaking and alluding to stuff in his interviews, is an emotional fault from him, that compromises the case. Telling the father information when you are meant to keep quiet is an emotional fault too, but its someone directly interacting with a person who has just had their young daughter slain... In both cases compromises, but it's understandable compromise. It's not unlikely for family members or those closely affected by it to talk amongst each other in private and "off the record" though. There will be certain details the survivors witnessed or saw/heard that we don't know yet, that of course they will have told their immediate family.

Also each stabbing incident probably played out with varying different small, or big tangibles, according to the attacker assessing each situation correctly, or the slain fighting back differently or stronger than the others. Wouldn't put much weight into the one victim having more severe wounds indicates they were the prime target yet.

 

[Down To Earth]

"We have clarified comments made by Latah County Prosecutor Thompson, who said the suspect(s) specifically looked at this residence, and that one or more of the occupants were undoubtedly targeted. We remain consistent in our belief that this was indeed a targeted attack but have not concluded if the target was the residence or its occupants."
Source - Moscow PD official site

I chose bold font for the word occupants because neither Prosecutor Thompson nor Moscow PD's site uses the word "victims" in their statements about the believed targeted attack. There has been rampant speculation about which of the victims could have been targeted, but less speculation about the survivors. I personally don't have a strong notion about who or what the target(s) of this crime may be, but I tend to believe that because LE has been strong in their messaging from the very beginning about this being a "targeted attack", that LE more than likely has clear evidence that would suggest that, and not just something circumstantial that a perpetrator could leave to disguise their intent.

It's my own personal belief that between the 911 call, the interior details of the crime scene, and the immediate first wave of on-site interviews, that there is a significant amount of key information available to make the "targeted attack" determination. I imagine (because I'm not privy to evidence) when you add in all the tips and media that have come in since then, and subsequent interviews and re-interviews in wider and wider circles that LE (I'm including FBI as LE) probably has a pretty substantial toehold on the serial killer vs some-degree-of-acquaintance determination.

I believe this case likely has a lot of key angles that haven't been made public and MOO I think it might not be until an arrest or trial that we learn much of it. I have faith that in this case justice will be served and I don't have enough info to wager a timeline for that.

 

[annpats]

I still don't think the person they're looking for is a man.

I do, without question.

 

[hopewell]

Thanks @dotr

"When you use the word "targeted," it means somewhere along the line we met,' former Moscow Police Captain Paul Kwaitkowski, 64, told DailyMail.com in an exclusive interview.

'Somewhere along the line, something bad happened, something that pi***d someone off enough to go after these people.'
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This part works for me. Someone retaliated ala "a like for a like" I hope that doesn't sound like victim bashing as I don't mean it that way. I saying this as the killer/s' motivation. Screw with me and I screw with you. moo

Page 41 of the FBI manual on crime prevention disagrees:

Making Prevention a Reality: Identifying, Assessing, and Managing the Threat of Targeted Attacks | Federal Bureau of Investigation

This report, a practical guide on assessing and managing the threat of targeted violence, contains concrete strategies to help communities prevent these types of incidents.

www.fbi.gov

 

[Miss Jennifer]

That is not unlikely at all, behind close doors if there is anything you can do to share information about your kid's passing that you know, parent to parent, it is actually likely. The father being so distraught that he started leaking and alluding to stuff in his interviews, is an emotional fault from him, that compromises the case. Telling the father information when you are meant to keep quiet is an emotional fault too, but its someone directly interacting with a person who has just had their young daughter slain... In both cases compromises, but it's understandable compromise. It's not unlikely for family members or those closely affected by it to talk amongst each other in private and "off the record" though. There will be certain details the survivors witnessed or saw/heard that we don't know yet, that of course they will have told their immediate family.

Also each stabbing incident probably played out with varying different small, or big tangibles, according to the attacker assessing each situation correctly, or the slain fighting back differently or stronger than the others. Wouldn't put much weight into the one victim having more severe wounds indicates they were the prime target yet.

I'm having difficulty grasping that they could share information privately because E and X's families have remained relatively silent.

Without a doubt, if this were my child, I would try to delicately obtain as many details as I could from the other parents, but that's my nature.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I hope you never lose a child. There is no “counseling”, no solace, no reprieve. The grief is all encompassing and it takes your legs out from under you. The world is turned upside down, and nothing makes sense or matters except getting answers. You somehow believe that those answers will bring you peace, so you go balls to the wall to get them. The sad truth is that even getting those answers will never be enough. The pain will still be there, the fog that surrounds you won’t lift, and the fact that life continues and the world is still spinning seems, at best, to be sacrilege.

Please…let that father wail and scream and beat his chest. Let him name call and stir emotions. Let him, while he is remembering holding his daughter’s hand, while he is remembering her first steps, while he recalling dropping her off at college for the first time, let him grieve. He has earned that. He deserves that. Every parent who has ever had to look into the lifeless eyes of their dead child deserves that. Begrudging him that right is not anyone’s right. If the worst he does in his darkest hours is name call, LE is going to need to suck it up. That was his daughter.
~A Grieving Mom

I am so sorry for your loss & appreciate your heart-felt words in support of SG & all those grieving who are directly affected by these deaths.

It is easy to look on from the outside & question & judge things. The overwhelming weight of grief is so personal that many chose to deflect or look away. I feel the majority of posters here are empathetic.

In your journey of grief, you have learned much, I am sure. I would love to hear your advice on coping with enormous loss. It could help others if you feel comfortable doing so.

If you interacted with LE, what was that like for you?

Do you feel this case is jeopardized by SG speaking out?

 

[julesocean]

Page 41 of the FBI manual on crime prevention disagrees:

Making Prevention a Reality: Identifying, Assessing, and Managing the Threat of Targeted Attacks | Federal Bureau of Investigation

This report, a practical guide on assessing and managing the threat of targeted violence, contains concrete strategies to help communities prevent these types of incidents.

www.fbi.gov

View attachment 387013

Please note this was a media interview with someone that used to be in LE in that town. His use of the word target may be as informal and ambiguous as we are using it in regards to this case. He has no more information than we do.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1602436596946857984

 

[Kittycat40]

I do, without question.

Yup could be 1 or more. But a man was involved. IMO

 

[julesocean]

I'm having difficulty grasping that they could share information privately because E and X's families have remained relatively silent.

Without a doubt, if this were my child, I would try to delicately obtain as many details as I could from the other parents, but that's my nature.

It would not surprise me if all survivor's and victim's parents have talked to each other about this incident. It would not surprise me that the survivors parents feel it's important as friends and parents that they share what their daughters shared with them about what they had seen or heard that night.

It would then not surprise me that perhaps the most emotional or "LE ain't doing jack to solve this case quickly" parent would then make leaks that they thought the public deserved to know (he think's other girls should know a sadistic male might get them too). It hinders the case by releasing info, but how can you blame an emotional parent?

 

[hopewell]

Please note this was a media interview with someone that used to be in LE in that town. His use of the word target may be as informal and ambiguous as we are using it in regards to this case. He has no more information than we do.

Right, but the use of the word 'targeted' by authorities in this case doesn't necessarily indicate that the suspect was known to the victims. I feel that that is an important distinction, particularly when there are some pretty outlandish and wholly unsupported theories out there regarding folks close to the victims.

My opinion.

 

[Down To Earth]

"We have clarified comments made by Latah County Prosecutor Thompson, who said the suspect(s) specifically looked at this residence, and that one or more of the occupants were undoubtedly targeted. We remain consistent in our belief that this was indeed a targeted attack but have not concluded if the target was the residence or its occupants."
Source - Moscow PD official site

I'm re-reading the quote here from the Moscow PD site.

"...the suspect(s) specifically looked at this residence..."

This leads me to believe it's possible that right away they had some type of hard evidence that somebody was checking out the house. When a car was set on fire in a parking lot across from where I work, the LE asked me for footage from my building's outdoor security cameras. No doubt LE quickly asked to look through all the neighbors' cameras. If a certain car was seen driving by again and again, slowing down, stopping in front of the house, etc..., would that be firm enough for LE to believe it was a "targeted attack"? Something like that would explain why they aren't sure if it's residence or the occupants that were targeted. But I'd have to assume they'd need to pair a video like that with some other detail within the crime scene before leaning so heavily that the attack was targeted. All just my opinions of course.

 

[Miss Jennifer]

It would not surprise me if all survivor's and victim's parents have talked to each other about this incident. It would not surprise me that the survivors parents feel it's important as friends and parents that they share what their daughters shared with them about what they had seen or heard that night.

It would then not surprise me that perhaps the most emotional or "LE ain't doing jack to solve this case quickly" parent would then make leaks that they thought the public deserved to know (he think's other girls should know a sadistic male might get them too). It hinders the case by releasing info, but how can you blame an emotional parent?

touché

 

[PolarButterflie]

I agree. I speculated on this a week or two ago. I'm sure it was a horrific scene, but I believe it wasn't necessarily as bloody as the coroner/ME first described it due to heavy bedding.

I believe it was a bloody scene, but I do believe the blood was more contained than many on WS believe. I believe the killer had blood on his/her clothing, but wasn't necessarily dripping. I also believe that there may have been no blood tracks as much of the blood could have been initially contained by the bedding, only pooling over time.

 

[Curious Me]

Right now, Pacific time, Dr. Phil Show today--

Videos | Official Website | Dr. Phil

Dive into a library of Dr. Phil's videos featuring psychological advice, intriguing guests, and captivating stories. Engage with the mind of an expert

www.drphil.com

Forensic expert, Joseph Scott Morgan; former FBI Special Agent, Jonathan Gilliam; Criminologist, Dr. Casey Jordan; DailyMail Senior Reporter, Caitlyn Becker; and Cyber Sleuth, Lisa Marie, join Dr. Phil to discuss this mysterious case.​

 

[Kittycat40]

Right now, Pacific time, Dr. Phil Show today--

Videos | Official Website | Dr. Phil

Dive into a library of Dr. Phil's videos featuring psychological advice, intriguing guests, and captivating stories. Engage with the mind of an expert

www.drphil.com

Forensic expert, Joseph Scott Morgan; former FBI Special Agent, Jonathan Gilliam; Criminologist, Dr. Casey Jordan; DailyMail Senior Reporter, Caitlyn Becker; and Cyber Sleuth, Lisa Marie, join Dr. Phil to discuss this mysterious case.​

Just saw a clip a few seconds Long some girl said Ethan had words and it got heated then it cut off. I am going to see if I can watch the whole things. Things are getting interesting

 

[BeckyF]

Dr. Phil show today focused on this case. He had a couple of criminal profilers as guests. There were lots of interesting comments. If you have time, I'd recommend watching it.

 

[techette]

Thanks @dotr

"When you use the word "targeted," it means somewhere along the line we met,' former Moscow Police Captain Paul Kwaitkowski, 64, told DailyMail.com in an exclusive interview.

'Somewhere along the line, something bad happened, something that pi***d someone off enough to go after these people.'
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This part works for me. Someone retaliated ala "a like for a like" I hope that doesn't sound like victim bashing as I don't mean it that way. I saying this as the killer/s' motivation. Screw with me and I screw with you. moo

I keep wondering though...could the revenge be against someone else? Someone who cares about them? In movies you always have bad guys threatening to hurt loved ones. Maybe the "revenge" was against the surviving roommates or family of the victims? Twists it on its head a bit....like do the parents have any enemies that would kill their kids as revenge?

But then again it could still be a random guy or a group of guys. I always circle back to how little we really know.

MOO

 

[Data Sleuth]

I'm re-reading the quote here from the Moscow PD site.

"...the suspect(s) specifically looked at this residence..."

This leads me to believe it's possible that right away they had some type of hard evidence that somebody was checking out the house. When a car was set on fire in a parking lot across from where I work, the LE asked me for footage from my building's outdoor security cameras. No doubt LE quickly asked to look through all the neighbors' cameras. If a certain car was seen driving by again and again, slowing down, stopping in front of the house, etc..., would that be firm enough for LE to believe it was a "targeted attack"? Something like that would explain why they aren't sure if it's residence or the occupants that were targeted. But I'd have to assume they'd need to pair a video like that with some other detail within the crime scene before leaning so heavily that the attack was targeted. All just my opinions of course.

Fantastic theory and analysis! From your summary of how the number of “preliminary” or scouting drive bye’s of the 1122 address by a specific vehicle I can now understand what LE means when they state that they do not know if the house or it’s occupants were targeted.
Perhaps others on this site have figured out what targeted meant but I feel like I can now see at least some of the angles of the ongoing investigation.
Thank you so much for sharing your insight!

 

[laust23]

There is a possibility that itwas a duo--one male and one female.
The male to do the wet work, the female accomplice to be the lookout. She could have been the one to have the entry codes.

There is so much more to this, and all the various relationships, than meets the eye. They had three years of interaction to build up resentment, anger, jealousy, envy, and rage.

This is just my opinion, not based on any evidence released by law enforcementor

Be on the lookout and/or keeping the dog quiet.