ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 34

[Helechawagirl]

So according to this article these are potential reasons in MOO that FBI is so heavily involved:

• A local or state police department requests that the FBI file for an Unlawful Flight to Avoid Prosecution (UFAP) warrant to allow the Bureau to enter a local homicide case. The Bureau’s task is the apprehension of the interstate fugitive, not the investigation of the actual murder.
• The murders involve violent crimes against interstate travelers, such as serial killings.
• The purpose of the murder was to promote a criminal enterprise, such as in organized crime and drug trafficking.

Any others seem plausible ?

Congress passed a law that gave the FBI the framework to assist local LE with murders of 4 or more persons. The law defines serial killers (for this purpose,) but this publication from the FBI explains it in great detail.

Serial Murder | Federal Bureau of Investigation

www.fbi.gov

IOW, any time there is a murder of more than 4 people, the fbi can get involved.

 

[yukoncornelius]

So many possibilities. I believe it is one of the following:

• Jealous/Angry ExBF
• Jealous/Angry Peripheral Person (wannabe BF/Stalker)
• Possibly Related to Recent DTD Member's Drowning
• Possible Beef With Sigma Chi

Until the Greek Wall cracks, we may never know the truth, which is shameful. 4 lives lost. I believe several people know what happened.

MOO

 

[Kittycat40]

 

[zephyr22]

Makes me wonder if there was something in the car that lead EPD send info to Moscow?

I'm very intrigued to find out if this Elantra came from Idaho. The dirt color on the back only happens after you drive your car over the mountain pass to and from Central Oregon.

 

[Happyshoes]

So many possibilities. I believe it is one of the following:

• Jealous/Angry ExBF
• Jealous/Angry Peripheral Person (wannabe BF/Stalker)
• Possibly Related to Recent DTD Member's Drowning
• Possible Beef With Sigma Chi

Until the Greek Wall cracks, we may never know the truth, which is shameful. 4 lives lost. I believe several people know what happened.

MOO

#4

 

[Deepinthought52]

Here it is guys at about the 1:47 mark you can see police responding over labor day weekend to the house because of a noise complaint. 2 guys answer the door and say that they don't know who lives there. Police eventually figure it out and contact Madison. LE has way more videotape on this case then they are choosing to release to us. Be patient they say they are getting to the bottom of it.

Wow. People partied there when none of the renters were even there? No wonder LE has such a tall task. IMO.

 

[katydid23]

Ok, this has been on my mind and so I'm throwing it out there.

I lived in a city where a person had committed multiple murders and had evaded police, won't mention names or cities here. But a HUGE portion of the immediate area was placed into lockdown (a good 10km by 10km area) - residents to lock doors/close blinds, road blocks set up. LE, dogs, drones and experts with heat sensor cameras searched the area thoroughly. This was the only reason that they were able to drive out and catch the culprit, even though it was stressful to all involved and no one knew how much time had passed from murder to capture.

Why was the action by LE after discovering this carnage to lockdown and then release claiming that it was a specific target and therefore the community should stay aware but not worried? It is not about community worry, it is about catching the perp. Was it because of how much time had passed and they really had no idea where in the world this person could be? But why would they not even try that?

THis^^^ sounds like what happened after the Boston Marathon mass murders. That was an amazing and thorough lockdown, citywide, which used drones and road blocks and every agency available, 24/7.

However that was an extreme example because of the obvious threat level which was substantial and overwhelming. JMO

 

[al66pine]

Why FBI is "Involved" in This Murder Investigation?

So according to this article these are potential reasons in MOO that FBI is so heavily involved:

• A local or state police department requests that the FBI file for an Unlawful Flight to Avoid Prosecution (UFAP) warrant to allow the Bureau to enter a local homicide case. The Bureau’s task is the apprehension of the interstate fugitive, not the investigation of the actual murder.
• The murders involve violent crimes against interstate travelers, such as serial killings.
• The purpose of the murder was to promote a criminal enterprise, such as in organized crime and drug trafficking.

Any others seem plausible ?

@BondGirl007 Good question, but the article* your post referenced (well, actually another poster first referenced) is from website of a former FBI Special Agent, not the fbi.gov website, which describes OTHER WAYS FBI may be "involved" in murder cases.

Briefly, in this ID. case, FBI is not the primary or lead LE agency but instead is providing support/technical services (more detail below) to assist Moscow PD, the primary or lead LE agency in this STATE crim investigation.

Not so briefly, FBI investigates certain specified FED. crimes as the primary or led agency** like the former agent's article lists.

But FBI also provides support services to other LE agencies "Science and Lab Resources" WHEN REQUESTED by other LE agencies. FBI's services to assist the other agencies include:
--- Biometrics and Fingerprints,****
--- Scientific Analysis,*****
--- Forensics.******
This ^ is how FBI is "involved" in ID. case, as a "helper agency."

IIUC, Moscow PD requested FBI to assist w this case by providing "Science and Lab Resources."
So here (at least technically speaking) FBI is not the primary or lead LE agency investigating the murder case.
Instead FBI is providing assistance ("Science and Lab Resources") to Moscow PD is the primary or lead LE agency.
imo jmo moo

_____________________________________________
* When Does the FBI Investigate Murder? - Jerri Williams
** WHAT WE INVESTIGATE

What We Investigate | Federal Bureau of Investigation

The FBI's investigative programs include counterterrorism, counterintelligence, cyber, public corruption, civil rights, transnational organized crime, white collar crime, violent crime, and weapons of mass destruction.

www.fbi.gov

*** FBI Resources for Law Enforcement
"It’s our mission to provide leadership and criminal justice services to our law enforcement partners."

le.fbi.gov | Law Enforcement

FBI resources for our law enforcement partners

le.fbi.gov

Science and Lab — LE

Science and laboratory resources for the FBI's law enforcement partners.

le.fbi.gov

**** Biometrics and Fingerprints | Law Enforcement
***** Scientific Analysis | Law Enforcement
****** Forensics | Law Enforcement

 

[LiverpoolUK2222]

I don’t think this killer has done the perfect crime. I think the killer got lucky, for now. The killer is nothing special and is probably sitting in his room reading all the comments from people saying how this was done by a professional, how this was done perfectly with no trace of evidence and feeling kinda special. They are all wrong because the police will have plenty of evidence and will eventually arrest you. The police will Find you and hopefully sooner rather than later. The killer is a Whimp who could only kill the victims in their sleep. Look forward to see the blubbering mess you are when cuffed and you cry for your mummy. This killer is an embarrassment, pathetic, creep and probably Couldn’t even get a girlfriend. The killer is Always getting turned down by women. His rage grew over the years he ended up having one huge tantrum killing 4 people. Just writing my thoughts down.

 

[wary]

In that noise complaint video, I’m impressed by how gentle and patient the cops are.

And notice all the sounds that, in isolation, could be interpreted as signs of distress. Obviously, they weren’t, but knowledge that it was this sort of place might have made the killer feel bolder—neighbors aren't going to think there’s anything wrong, if they hear a random scream in the middle of the night.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

Yes exactly what I’m saying. Not enough was down in the immediate sense. No one mentioned locking down the city.

But it was entirely too late to lockdown the city. The survivors did not call it in until lunch time. The murders happened around 8 or so hours earlier. So the perp could have been anywhere w/in an 8 hour radius.

 

[margarita25]

I just watched the video of them walking home again, and Mickey Shunick’s case and the grainy surveillance video of the white truck following her riding her bike home from the bar popped in my head. That perp, BSL, just happened to see her, and it was a crime of opportunity iirc.

Obviously LE has already canvassed and watched any and all available footage in the first days right after the incident of their walk home, and I’m guessing they couldn’t see anyone following them home, otherwise if they did, I would think a suspect photo or vehicle photo would have been released.

So talking it out, I’m guessing the Mickey Shunick theory doesn’t work here, unless if this is the case, they maybe followed along a parallel route. Or there wasn’t much surveillance available.

Unless that’s where the white vehicle comes from, but that doesn’t like it is - they say it was reported in the area, and the NBC reporter said LE told her multiple people called that in.

So I guess they don’t have that actual vehicle on camera...? That seems odd to me, so as mentioned previously, why not release the photo/video of the vehicle if they have one?

 

[AdaArroway]

Not sure if it has already been discussed here (I apologize if it has), but I think there are high chances that the murders were committed by a group of people, not one lone killer. Why:
- 4 people stubbed while sleeping, some had defensive wounds. It only makes sense if the attack is coordinated and simultaneous, otherwise chances are that the first or the second killing had woken up the others. Whatever happened couldn't have been too loud or chaotic (also, the surviving roommates didn't wake up).
- One knife for multiple stubs in 4 people? That would be a veeeery sturdy knife.
- The kitchen door is suspected to be the entry point, it's not obvious from outside. I bet the killers have been in the house before, probably partying.
To me, everything points at a group of friends from a frat house. Or a group of incels killing "Staceys". However, to play devil's advocate against myself, I don't understand how the phone calls to Jack make sense. Maybe another "Scream copycat" like Cassie Stoddart's case? maybe they were scaring them before the murders and that's that's why they called Jack who lived nearby?

 

[RetiredEE]

Crash is 4.4mi from the Sigma Chi at University of Oregon. Not saying any connection, just chasing my tail at this point.

That is kind of interesting. Certainly brothers from other chapters can usually crash at other houses when traveling.

Here's a map of other Sigma Chi chapters, not thinking of anything specific, file for reference

Chapter Map – Sigma Chi

sigmachi.org

I'm looking at back roads out of Moscow, and there are a few that are almost completely rural (think no cameras likely). Someone could slip out of town on some of these roads with a low probability of being seen or caught on camera. Police seem very very interested in the car, and starting to understand why it may be so important.

 

[margarita25]

I haven't read all these threads (yet) so don't know what's been addressed BUT this case has me so rattled I have trouble sleeping, even with a light on. I live no where near Idaho.

But some thoughts popped into my head ... the "Lizzie Borden" case ... what if the killer was naked, so easier to not leave a trail .....

And how could someone do this in the dark? I'm guessing there weren't any lights on.

I know ... random ... but ....... my mind can't even go there.

As dramatic as it sounds, I’ve thought about/mentioned night goggles. He had a military style knife, maybe he had night vision too.

 

[BeccaD]

Hi, I haven't seen this mentioned so please pardon if it's already been discussed. I'm thinking maybe LE is so fixated on the Elantra is because DNA would likely be present. Even if the killer washed or detailed the interior there's a chance blood evidence might be found. Unless scuba suit, booties etc the killer would probably have some amount of blood on them. Victims blood in the killer's car is great evidence towards a conviction. JMO

 

[Allabouttrial]

TRANSCRIPT
CHIEF GIVES BRIEF UPDATE

19TH DECEMBER.

Question - Where are we at with the number of tips that have come in and leads?.

Chief - We've had right around 10,000 tips come in. We're reviewing all those tips. We're checking to ensure that we have individuals who look at those tips and any piece of evidence that they can link to this case, they're doing so.

Question - What about the video evidence?. How is that reviewed?. What do you do with it?.

Chief - We have a special team of individuals who are skilled at watching videos, collecting evidence and information out of those videos and linking them together so that we can tie every piece together for this investigation.

Question - What do you have for an update about the white Hyundai Elantra?.

Chief - We have many tips that have come in on the 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, but what we're asking is, anybody else who still hasn't sent in a tip - if you own one or if you know somebody who was driving one the day before or the day after, to please send that tip in.

Question - What about the holidays?. What does that mean for the investigation and all the people working on it?.

Chief - That does not change anything for us. We're going to continue to push through the holidays. We have a team that will continue to do the investigation work on that, as we move through the holidays.

Question - And finally, why is it important to keep video digital submissions part of the investigation as it's sorted through?.

Chief - As our individuals are sorting through that, all that information could be one key piece for this investigation. So, they're reviewing all that, they're looking at that and they're looking for any keys that tie together any specific investigative pieces that we need to solve this case.

 

[nao]

Moo...the girls were subletting rooms. So maybe they would show person around house and interview the person looking for room. Then between them decide if person is a good fit. Some people take being rejected from a rental...very very personally and react badly, hold a grudge. So rejected person would know layout of house and of met the 3 girls. Just my theory for tonite.....moo

 

[margarita25]

Moo...the girls were subletting rooms. So maybe they would show person around house and interview the person looking for room. Then between them decide if person is a good fit. Some people take being rejected from a rental...very very personally and react badly, hold a grudge. So rejected person would know layout of house and of met the 3 girls. Just my theory for tonite.....moo

Do we know what platforms were used to advertise these sublets, and when? Are there any of these postings available?

 

[Jdianeg]

On the surveillance video (linked on previous pages) of the 3 walking to the food truck, you can hear one girl ask “Maddie, what did you tell Adam?!” Sounds like Maddie replied “I told Adam everything.” What is “everything?”

I have a different interpretation of this recording than what I’ve seen on here. I hear a jovial, goofy friend asking what Maddie said to Adam. It takes me back to being a young adult and I instantly took it as maybe she had a crush on Adam and she told him. I hear goof ball fun conversation, not annoyed or concerned. That’s just me!