ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 34

[LAHOLLA]

I think they most likely have presently or have had a suspect or even multiple ones, JMO

I tend to agree. Leaning towards they are working hard to nail down their case/quell any lingering doubts before making an arrest.

That said, we are talking about someone who brutally murdered 4 kids (I realize they are adults but I have children older than they are). I also can't imagine them "knowing" who did it and not locking them up immediately...

 

[CityKid]

I’ve thought about the car a lot as well. It’s just so confusing for such a well planned attack.

Moo-

Could the car belong to someone they knew was out of town…

Could it belong to a grandparent who no longer drives and wouldn’t notice it missing at night.

Could it belong to anyone who wouldn’t notice it missing at night.

Far fetched I know, as far as theories I’ve posted this may be one of my most unlikely.

But I knkw for me personally, I have two grandparents I could easily take their cars for a night, and return without them even noticing. So technically it could be possible.

Also I heard K’s parents mention in a recent interview they believe the car was possibly borrowed.

Could the car have contained people with alibis that wouldn't hold up if they were indeed in the car at that time?

 

[RatFace]

EPD says the car had been involved in a "job injury crash" earlier in the week (on December 15) and was left on Seneca Road after the involved parties exchanged information.


It does not appear stolen or connected to the murders, IMO.

Seems that way but I do wonder why the license plate was removed.

 

[fridaybaker]

The sliding door in KG’s room did have drapes. You can see them in her TikTok video with Murphy. (See link below.)

New York Post Article with the TikTok referenced above

Okay, thanks. I’m I remembering incorrectly? Wasn’t there also a window?

I see now that the other window looks to be in another part of the house. I do wonder, though, as someone did above -did she close them? Lots of partying, people that age often feel invincible, etc.

Someone could certainly have become fixated on her. Watching her.

 

[Jayhawk]

I think about either couple being killed because they witnessed something (to me that makes most sense), however, all reports say all four were killed in their sleep. Doesn’t that mean they were all in bed? If they were killed for being a witness, I’d assume they’d be in a hallway or doorway?

I too feel like there has to be a connection between the killer and the 4 students killed. It seems off to me that two would be spared given the brutal killing upstairs.

 

[Nila Aella]

Could the dog be sniffing for the smell of blood? To get an idea of which way the killer went?

I believe yes.

Each dog is different in what they are trained to detect and in their ability to detect. Detection dogs can detect blood, weapons, semen, accelerants, drugs, explosives, poisons, electronics, bodies, and more. Trailing dogs are trained to identify the scent of a specific human (with a scent sample). The limits of a dog being able to track a human scent is 5 - 14 days after the incident. Again, it depends on the ability of the dog and the handler.

In this case, I only saw a few photos of a police dog at the door and in the side/back yard. IMO the police dog was there to detect blood trail, but he/she could also be a superstar dog that is trained to detect multiple things and to trail.

"Sauer", a Doberman Pinscher!, holds the record for longest non stop track (at least up to 2017) - 100 miles, non stop, in the desert of South Africa (1925) to capture a cattle rustler.

Tracking (dog) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353840775_FORENSIC_SCIENCE_USE_OF_DETECTION_DOGS_IN_FORENSIC_INVESTIGATIONS_THE_ITALIAN_SCENARIO

Trained Dogs in the Crime Scene Search | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

Google Photos

photos.google.com

Google Photos

photos.google.com

The Record for the Best Tracking Dog: His Breed May Surprise You

Outside of Cape Town, South Africa, in little towns known as Robertson, Rawonsville, Irene, and Worcester, an unlikely local legend is remembered. His name was “Sauer, a dog born in 1917 on the premises of the South African Police Dog School. Blessed with a sound pedigree, Sauer, nevertheless...

nationalpurebreddogday.com

 

[Which_pancake]

I’m so sorry if I’ve missed anything relating to what I’m about to say, but the longer that the Hyundai goes unidentified and the longer LE insist on centering their investigation on it (that WE can all see that is), the more I lean away from it being someone known to the victims (eg jilted ex, betrayed friend, even a rejected distant acquaintance) and lean instead towards it being someone unknown to the victims that was fixated on one or more of the victims for whatever reason or the house itself.

IMO LE would have been able to track the Hyundai back to the owner by now if it belonged to someone within their social circle or even on the outskirts of their circle. IMO this would even be true of a situation where the car belongs to the parent of someone known to the killer. I get a parent wanting to protect their kid, but surely SOMEONE would know the car, particularly if it were someone who attended the college, lived in the area, etc.

IMO the fact that they are still desperately wanting information on that car tells me there is no link in terms of a personal link between the victims and the killer or they would have made it by now.

I fully agree

 

[OrlandoJames]

I too feel like there has to be a connection between the killer and the 4 students killed. It seems off to me that two would be spared given the brutal killing upstairs.

There are many reasons why they might be spared even if there was no connection between the killer and the victims: 1) He didn't know they were there; 2) Their doors were locked so he couldn't get in; 3) Some of the victims upstairs had screamed and he was worried that somebody might have already called the police, so decided to call it quits; 4) He was starting to get tired and/or the knife was broken or blunted; 5) He was satiated - i.e., his psychotic rage had been quelled by the previous four murders and he simply didn't feel the need to commit any more.

There are probably more, but those are five reasons why a killer unknown to the victims might end up sparing two other people in the house.

 

[Which_pancake]

MOO- Is anyone else kind of questioning the “actual” relevancy of some of the video releases? They seem like speculation-fuel to me.

The alcohol stop on the night of the murders & the girls “conversation” about Adam in particular. Have we come away with anything meaningful from these? My main takeaway has been that this is a college drinking town. I’m sure I’m missing some nuances; thoughts?

Idaho murders: Full video appearing to show Kaylee Goncalves and Maddie Mogen hours before slayings released

Surveillance video appears to show Kaylee Goncalves and Maddie Mogen walking in Moscow hours before they were killed in their rental home with two friends.

www.foxnews.com

Moscow Police release new body camera footage from Nov. 13 - KXLY

MOSCOW, ID. – For the first time, Moscow detectives have released new body camera footage during the early morning hours of Sunday, Nov. 13. Police hope that the footage can provide new leads the case of the four University of Idaho students killed. In the video, police officers are seen on...

www.kxly.com

ETA: I’m not questioning the quality of LE tactics & obviously I’m as curious as anyone about this case. I’ll take any additional info that is available but personally they don’t add much more than maybe context (and at worse, doxxing potentially innocent people) to me. JMHO

LE did not release the videos. To my knowledge, they have not released any videos. The grub truck video was a publicly available twitch stream, and the "Adam" video was released by the camera's owner to Facebook then to Fox news. I agree that the videos don't really provide much.

Edit - LE did release the body cam videos, but it was due to FOIA requests, not because they thought it would provide helpful info for this case. IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

Yes. But it’s more of a question of whether she ever CLOSED said drapes. Having them and using them are two different and separate things. JMOHO.

SLIDING DOORS AND DRAPES
I was blown away when I saw how many windows did not have blinds and drapes. Now looking at pictures I’m Not convinced that is the case, some were simply pulled to the side when the pictures were taken. We don’t know how they typically looked after dark.

I lived in a house with a second story kitchen, bath, and two bedrooms and a sliding door. The sliding door spanned one entire side of the room and led to the balcony entrance which faced a distant lake. We kept the drapes open during the daytime for the light and view but always closed them at night. Yes we had a pin and stick in the sliding door. Our door didn’t open into a bedroom but we always checked it at night and closed The drapes.

Why would we assume K kept the drapes open to a sliding door in her bedroom? I cannot imagine anyone comfortable dressing, or laying down in bed asleep with an uncovered sliding door with a balcony outside that door, especially in darkness.
I have no idea if I’m correct, but I’d be willing to guess she closed the drapes at a night.

What we don’t know is the state of those drapes and other window coverings during the day of Nov 12, and through the night of Nov 12-13. If they spent considerable time downstairs eating or whatever before they went out for the night- the drapes upstairs may have been left open. We also know K was not staying in her room, were they left open?

I do agree that if those drapes were open upstairs in K’s room and downstairs in the kitchen, it would be a creeps dream as with the darkness outside and light from inside visibility would have been clear. We can see that from the Sept 1, 2022 911 call and pics of the forensics teams and investigators inside at night

JMO

 

[JohnBull]

It could also be someone who did work in the home at some point- plumber, handyman, appliance repairman, pest control, etc etc etc.

They are used to wearing coveralls and shoe covers and could have easily encountered one or more of the roommates and developed an unhealthy fixation...

ETA they would/could also be familiar with the layout.

Absolutely. Think of the Elizabeth Smart case, where a stranger had been taken home by the father to do odd work around the house. If I were the local cops in Moscow I'd be taking a look at every contractor who had done work in the place, finding out what work had been done, when it had been done, and what employee it had been done by.

 

[Jawds78]

SLIDING DOORS AND DRAPES
I was blown away when I saw how many windows did not have blinds and drapes. Now looking at pictures I’m Not convinced that is the case, some were simply pulled to the side when the pictures were taken. We don’t know how they typically looked after dark.

I lived in a house with a second story kitchen, bath, and two bedrooms and a sliding door. The sliding door spanned one entire side of the room and led to the balcony entrance which faced a distant lake. We kept the drapes open during the daytime for the light and view but always closed them at night. Yes we had a pin and stick in the sliding door. Our door didn’t open into a bedroom but we always checked it at night and closed The drapes.

Why would we assume K kept the drapes open to a sliding door in her bedroom? I cannot imagine anyone comfortable dressing, or laying down in bed asleep with an uncovered sliding door with a balcony outside that door, especially in darkness.
I have no idea if I’m correct, but I’d be willing to guess she closed the drapes at a night.

What we don’t know is the state of those drapes and other window coverings during the day of Nov 12, and through the night of Nov 12-13. If they spent considerable time downstairs eating or whatever before they went out for the night- the drapes upstairs may have been left open. We also know K was not staying in her room, were they left open?

I do agree that if those drapes were open upstairs in K’s room and downstairs in the kitchen, it would be a creeps dream as with the darkness outside and light from inside visibility would have been clear. We can see that from the Sept 1, 2022 911 call and pics of the forensics teams and investigators inside at night

JMO

I never close my blinds or window coverings because I know all my neighbors, mostly, and have a false sense of security (I recognize this fully). I actually started closing them at night because of this story. Maybe they felt the same way? Know everyone, been there awhile, not a big deal type thing. MOO

 

[Trouble1321075]

I tend to agree. Leaning towards they are working hard to nail down their case/quell any lingering doubts before making an arrest.

That said, we are talking about someone who brutally murdered 4 kids (I realize they are adults but I have children older than they are). I also can't imagine them "knowing" who did it and not locking them up immediately...

You're right, they were still kids. I would not call them children but at 21 you are still a kid learning how to be an adult.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Seems that way but I do wonder why the license plate was removed.

My late brother used to do that. He struggled with addiction and resulting poverty. He’d leave his car and optimistically remove the plates if it broke down Because it wasn‘t worth fixing And he didn’t want to pay for disposal.

 

[AngTxGal]

My belief as well. Perhaps he carried the “kill kit” into the home and placed it on the kitchen counter or table. Could have even set it down just outside the back slider threshold. Committed the quadruple homicide in some type of a full body cover suit, before pulling out one of those large potty training pads for dogs, and stepping onto it - and slowly peeling off the bloody outer kill suit (rolling it down from the head/face covering inside out). Wrap it all up in the puppy potty pad and stuff it back into the backpack before heading out. I believe this killer wasn’t in the house that long. I believe this unfolded almost exactly as he envisioned.

Yet the manner in which he killed still reflects the heart of a coward. Lying in wait under the cover of darkness well past the midnight hour. Entering the home where the victims are all fast asleep (not to mention exhausted, full from their pasta carbonara, inebriated…and possibly even high), to creep in undetected and attack them at their MOST vulnerable (while asleep and prone in bed, unaware, unprepared). This type of murder is akin to Jack-lighting or hunting from a tree stand. The deck was unfairly stacked in his favor. The playing field was anything BUT level. Jmoho

I agree about the kill kit and body covering, but not about the deck stacked against these young people. This killer took several risks such as not knowing how many people were in the house. At this time I’m thinking the downstairs roommate survivors were likely not alone. If each had a friend over, that is a house of 8 young people- and yet he managed to kill All four on the rear side of the home 2nd and 3rd floors.
Other risks-
- choice of messy knife in hand rather than a gun,
- entering home in neighborhood rather than rural home not near neighbors
- choosing a home with high visibility even from a distance
- choosing home in neighborhood with drive having one way in and one way out
- choosing young healthy victims rather than smaller or older
Interesting considering all of these risks together
If they had been caught quickly we would think- stupid
The longer they go without being caught we are thinking- brazen or lucky

JMO

 

[Jawds78]

SBM

Why in earth have enough people been contacting the owner that MPD has to ask them to stop?!

The next time finds it suspicious that the survivors aren’t talking, I hope they think about the harassment that’s happening to people.

Really awful public behavior that makes me sad.

It's also frustrating because so many of us just sleuth on-line, are respectful and don't bother anybody really. We just try and put the puzzle together- but get lumped in with the fanatics. It is not cool, but why I love WS so much. Genuine conversation using facts, w/o all the junk! MOO

 

[SMK777]

I also can't imagine them "knowing" who did it and not locking them up immediately…

They would hold off if they knew they didn’t have enough to make a conviction stick, or if the DA and Judge told them they needed more in order for them to sign off on a probable cause arrest warrant. There have been cases where a suspect has been arrested, and then is released for lack of enough evidence. That they obviously would want to avoid at all costs.

 

[SMK777]

I’m so sorry if I’ve missed anything relating to what I’m about to say, but the longer that the Hyundai goes unidentified and the longer LE insist on centering their investigation on it (that WE can all see that is), the more I lean away from it being someone known to the victims (eg jilted ex, betrayed friend, even a rejected distant acquaintance) and lean instead towards it being someone unknown to the victims that was fixated on one or more of the victims for whatever reason or the house itself.

IMO LE would have been able to track the Hyundai back to the owner by now if it belonged to someone within their social circle or even on the outskirts of their circle. IMO this would even be true of a situation where the car belongs to the parent of someone known to the killer. I get a parent wanting to protect their kid, but surely SOMEONE would know the car, particularly if it were someone who attended the college, lived in the area, etc.

IMO the fact that they are still desperately wanting information on that car tells me there is no link in terms of a personal link between the victims and the killer or they would have made it by now.

Yes, it’s disturbing but it does seem to be the case.

 

[OrlandoJames]

I agree about the kill kit and body covering, but not about the deck stacked against these young people. This killer took several risks such as not knowing how many people were in the house. At this time I’m thinking the downstairs roommate survivors were likely not alone. If each had a friend over, that is a house of 8 young people- and yet he managed to All four on the rear side of the home 2nd and 3rd floors.
Other risks-
- choice of messy knife in hand rather than a gun,
- entering home in neighborhood rather than rural home not near neighbors
- choosing a home with high visibility even from a distance
- choosing home in neighborhood with drive having one way in and one way out
- choosing young healthy victims rather than smaller or older
Interesting considering all of these risks together
If they had been caught quickly we would think- stupid
The longer they go without being caught we are thinking- brazen or lucky

JMO

The choice of the knife could mean a couple of things: 1) The murders were not planned and the killer took whatever weapon he had at hand; or 2) The murders were planned but the killer wanted to use a knife (i.e., he would not have been satisfied with just shooting his victims from yards away).

I lean towards the latter. I don't think the killer just wanted the victims dead - I think he wanted to experience the feeling of stabbing them to death. Which is why I think it's more likely a stranger with a lust to kill rather than somebody known to the victims.

 

[Emerald1328]

Yes I think so. Not necessarily the case, as you can cooperate and still be guilty, but I’m not concerned with him much.

He is probably on their “not believed to be involved” list but likely don’t want to tell the general public that. IMO, when they said that about a couple of people before, it seemed to make the internet warriors even more convinced that they had something to do with it. By them saying he is cooperating, they may be hoping that people just forget about him. If that’s the case, it seems to be working as I haven’t seen near as much vitriol on the internet about him as the other two. I could be wrong, I do avoid certain places.