ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[drmrgrl]

We know so little about E and X’s whereabouts that night that I think the police know a lot more about it, and no one is publicly releasing any ‘video’ footage of them, as they have K and M.

They could well have returned home with people. They could have been awake from 1am-3am, for example, in the living room. They could have socialised with K and M when they returned home too, sitting around/eating etc. They could have let people in the through the back, knowing other downstairs house mates might have been in bed. It was a party house after all. There is nothing to say this didn’t happen… that they didn’t all mix and socialise on returning home … and maybe even with other people who they let in (either known well, general a acquaintance or someone they met that night and told them where to find them). What if those people didn’t leave, or pretended to leave. What if they then stayed to commit the crime, in anger / passion / or pre-planned. K, M, X and E could have had a drink spiked to make them drowsy (for example), gone to bed and then been attacked.

they’ve been treated like two separate entities yet there are 4 of them in ONE household, returning home, albeit it separately but to one house!! When there is every chance they were all together later that evening (after they all returned home).

I’m afraid that MSM and Joe Public has more sympathy and interest in two blonde women than a couple. The focus has been on them through bias. It could be linked to anyone of those victims, sadly.

How do we even know M and K made those phone calls to the ex themselves… it could have been the killer.

We basically know nothing.

(That said I did find the locked doors possibility (how would a killer enter and then lock the victims back in) vs friends not phoning 911 immediately to be odd. If they weren’t locked then surely the surviving housemates discovered a crime scene of two victims not one ‘unconscious’ and would have also been concerned about the other housemates in the house. There is absolutely a reason they haven’t released the call.)

(And I do find the dog interesting, not to point any fingers but the dog must have been let out to do it’s business when the girls returned OR it would have been very distressed by midday to have had no human contact and no access to the toilet … even if it wasn’t a barker, I find it hard to imagine a dog not making a fuss eventually by midday… )

MOO

All good thoughts

In terms of them being in "public eye", this example seems so haunting, IMO:

"One of the four University of Idaho students who were brutally stabbed to death posted a heartbreaking message online hours before her death — saying she was “one lucky girl” to spend every day with the close-knit group of friends.

Kaylee Goncalves shared the message on Instagram along with photos of herself surrounded by pals who included Ethan Chapin, 20, Madison Mogen, 21, and Xana Kernodle, 20.

“One lucky girl to be surrounded by these people,” Goncalves said.

Shortly after posting the photo, the 21-year-old was found dead Sunday with Chapin, Mogen and Kernodle in an off-campus home."

University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves shared heartbreaking final post hours before death

iMO an ominous portent. It’s like the roomies we’re gonna be splitting up and going their separate ways and than to have the killings take place on top of that is inconceivable and unconscionable- all the better to catch the killer.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Hi sorry also not from US - in Australia and we definitely do not change plates to reflect our State.

Is it more ‘best practice’ to change to match your State of residence, or a legal requirement? Thanks

The specific laws vary by state. However, most states stipulate that you can reside for a certain number of days before registering your vehicle locally (which results in issuance of new plates). In New York, for instance, you have 30 days to comply. Beyond that period, you can be ticketed/fined for having out-of-state plates on your vehicle. I believe some states have exceptions for college students... I, for one, do not recall registering my car locally when I was attending college out of state.

 

[drmrgrl]

In terms of them being in "public eye", this example seems so haunting, IMO:

"One of the four University of Idaho students who were brutally stabbed to death posted a heartbreaking message online hours before her death — saying she was “one lucky girl” to spend every day with the close-knit group of friends.

Kaylee Goncalves shared the message on Instagram along with photos of herself surrounded by pals who included Ethan Chapin, 20, Madison Mogen, 21, and Xana Kernodle, 20.

“One lucky girl to be surrounded by these people,” Goncalves said.

Shortly after posting the photo, the 21-year-old was found dead Sunday with Chapin, Mogen and Kernodle in an off-campus home."

University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves shared heartbreaking final post hours before death

That’s why it makes catching the killer all that more rewarding and satisfying.This person will never be able to harm someone ever again.

 

[wary]

Hi sorry also not from US - in Australia and we definitely do not change plates to reflect our State.

Is it more ‘best practice’ to change to match your State of residence, or a legal requirement? Thanks

It’s a legal requirement. (Different states will have different laws, of course. )

However, many people are extremely slow to do it. And, in general, college students may consider that their true residence is with their parents, even though they’re living at their college, most of the year.

 

[kbckcern22]

I’m I the only one NOT completely confused by the 911 call and the way the morning played our after the murders. 2 roommates clearly didn’t hear anything going on. They were asleep, headphones in, or just use to the noise in that home. They woke up in the afternoon(my 13 year old could sleep until noon after a day of softball, swimming with friends and pure exhaustion) to a situation they can’t comprehend, and their actions there after are being judged even though we have zero idea what they were thinking, who they called, and their mindset. I have a hard time judging a situation where you wake up and your whole world is turned upside down and your brain cannot process what you just saw and what is ahead of you from that day forward. God bless these 2 roommates and the rest of their lives. They will forever question how they never heard a peep, how they should have been able to help, and how their lives go on pondering the could have, should have beens.

 

[Diogenetic]

That's interesting, I believe that I heard that in Stephanie Harlowe's video covering the case. Also, I believe that one of the people that the surviving roommates called said that someone had fainted. I'll have to look more into this and see if I can find where this originally came from.

That is fourth hand, and has moved all around in claims and easily could be people guessing that not responding (locked behind a door and not answering knock), to not responsive, to unconscious to fainted.

What we do know is that surviving roommates did not first call 911, did not call for ambulance and did not call police -- they called some friends. That increases likelihood they did not see bodies and did not know or assume a mass murder occurred. Collège kids may not call 9ll first if they have a friend who is seriously and even dangerously intoxicated. But they are likely going to get the cops over asap if one faints from seeing a murder victims and the amount of blood mortal wounds from a Kabar are going to produce

 

[WingsOverTX]

Hi sorry also not from US - in Australia and we definitely do not change plates to reflect our State.

Is it more ‘best practice’ to change to match your State of residence, or a legal requirement? Thanks

It is a legal requirement. The timeline & fees vary from state to state & even within counties/jurisdictions within states (for additional required emissions tests in urban areas, for example).

Failure to register can result in a ticket & fine if discovered. Even parking at the place where you live can be affected if you are a resident & have expired registration from another state. I rented a condo in CO & was prevented from parking on the property until properly registered after moving from TX. A bit extreme, but it happens.

Every state wants to annual collect fees for vehicle registration & driver licensing so it is enforceable though many people delay complying.
JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

We know so little about E and X’s whereabouts that night that I think the police know a lot more about it, and no one is publicly releasing any ‘video’ footage of them, as they have K and M.

They could well have returned home with people. They could have been awake from 1am-3am, for example, in the living room. They could have socialised with K and M when they returned home too, sitting around/eating etc. They could have let people in the through the back, knowing other downstairs house mates might have been in bed. It was a party house after all. There is nothing to say this didn’t happen… that they didn’t all mix and socialise on returning home … and maybe even with other people who they let in (either known well, general a acquaintance or someone they met that night and told them where to find them). What if those people didn’t leave, or pretended to leave. What if they then stayed to commit the crime, in anger / passion / or pre-planned. K, M, X and E could have had a drink spiked to make them drowsy (for example), gone to bed and then been attacked.

they’ve been treated like two separate entities yet there are 4 of them in ONE household, returning home, albeit it separately but to one house!! When there is every chance they were all together later that evening (after they all returned home).

I’m afraid that MSM and Joe Public has more sympathy and interest in two blonde women than a couple. The focus has been on them through bias. It could be linked to anyone of those victims, sadly.

How do we even know M and K made those phone calls to the ex themselves… it could have been the killer.

We basically know nothing.

(That said I did find the locked doors possibility (how would a killer enter and then lock the victims back in) vs friends not phoning 911 immediately to be odd. If they weren’t locked then surely the surviving housemates discovered a crime scene of two victims not one ‘unconscious’ and would have also been concerned about the other housemates in the house. There is absolutely a reason they haven’t released the call.)

(And I do find the dog interesting, not to point any fingers but the dog must have been let out to do it’s business when the girls returned OR it would have been very distressed by midday to have had no human contact and no access to the toilet … even if it wasn’t a barker, I find it hard to imagine a dog not making a fuss eventually by midday… )

MOO

According to this article police say that E&X were present at the frat house from 9:00 PM to 1:45 am. The request for information is for who they talked to there, who they interacted with, what they did, ect not to question whether they were there since police know they were at the frat party all night.

Idaho murders: Police running down list of 22K Hyundais, seek 'anything abnormal' in frat party timeline

"Detectives continue investigating what occurred from approximately 9 p.m. on November 12th to 1:45 a.m. on November 13th, when Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were believed to be at the Sigma Chi house on the University of Idaho Campus," police reiterated in a statement Thursday. "Any interactions, contacts, direction and method of travel, or anything abnormal could add context to what occurred."


This is a theory only, NOT FACT. Give it what weight you will.

It is possible that E&X returned home with someone at the stated time of 1:45 am and that person was there when K&M returned home at 1:56 AM. If K&M saw and knew this person was there, talked to him for a few minutes then went upstairs to bed they would have been witnesses to him being there that night. Since the 1st floor girls were already home at an earlier hour, 1:00 am and asleep they would not have been witnesses to this person being there that night.

In that scenario K&M would have to be killed as witnesses if this person attacked and killed E&X, while there would be no need for the 1st floor girls to be, since they had no knowledge of the perp being there.

It is entirely possible this person could have been someone invited home to party with E&X who was given permission to crash on the couch instead of walking home in the wee hours of the morning while intoxicated. It is entirely possible that earlier resentments or an earlier altercation could have spurred the guest to take action against E&X after continuing to drink after E&X had already went to bed.

Does any of this sound possible?

JMO NOT FACT.

 

[drmrgrl]

So technically the surviving housemates should have been able to simply open the door… and then see a full on murder scene … if the locks weren’t engaged? But instead they only had concern for one housemate : ‘surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they thought one of the victims had passed out and wasn't waking up’

IMO, the downstairs roommates may have only tried to contact one of the other people living there that AM. I think the roommates living upstairs had no clue this was coming and the downstairs roommates had no idea. None of them expected this to happen. I think the downstairs roommates were in a frenzied panic and if they had seen what had happened by chance, that would have been overwhelming and mind boggling to them. I say cut the downstairs roommates some slack. Can you just imagine the pall in that house that morning and the horrific smells of decomposition, vomit, urine, blood maybe feces and someone having to take that in? It’s unimaginable.

 

[bonniejeanne17]

Agreed! September 1st noise complaint video raised a lot of questions for me on sleeping arrangements.

Sleeping arrangements in party houses can vary. Depends on who is hooking up with whom on any particular night. Some frat houses, for instance, have hook-up rooms used on wild party nights.

 

[ellabella]

This doesn't exactly speak to your point but as I'm reading your post, I wonder if it even matters.
It was a party house. We've had several WS posters verify this. I have to wonder if these kids had an open door policy.
People could have been going in and out at any time. Also, locals have stated that it's the kind of town where no one locks their doors.
Gotta wonder if the kind of lock even matters, in this situation.

This is exactly what I fear. I come from a small community in Canada, and almost no one locks their doors. My parents do not actually have keys to any of the doors of their home. The only homicide was over 70 years ago. But that also gives people a very strong false sense of security. I am definitely the "odd" one in my community for locking my doors.

 

[drmrgrl]

No, I think it's more than that. This was an almost mafia-style execution.
I wonder if one of the group had crossed paths or got involved with the wrong crowd on a personal level. <modsnip>

MOO.

Yes a great idea!

 

[MassGuy]

the defensive injuries cited seem to be on one or two victims. they could be just cuts to forearm or hand as victim tried to weakly block a second thrust. We do not have evidence that there was some kind of substantial struggle

With a knife like that, you have almost no chance to defend yourself.

 

[Cindizzi]

I can't remember whose video I was listening to on YouTube, but they made mention that the bottom floor at one point may have been a dwelling on its own and that the other parts were an add on of sorts. That maybe the other two didn't hear anything was because it would essentially be more soundproof, like what would now be an interior wall was once an exterior wall therefore more insulation and what not. Just throwing this out there and if anyone has anything to prove/disprove this I would be interested in this info!

A former resident of the house who said he lived on the bottom floor in 2019 did state that he could not hear anything from the upper floors except perhaps a television turned up very loud.


FIRST ON FOX: MOSCOW, Idaho — A former tenant of the Moscow, Idaho, home where four University of Idaho students were murdered on Nov. 13 says it was difficult to hear activity on the second and third floors of the home from the first, where he lived.

Ryan Augusta — a healthcare worker and local business owner who now lives in Genesee, Idaho — told Fox News Digital in an interview that when he lived on the first floor of the home on King Road in 2019, unless his roommate was playing the television loudly on the second floor, he typically "heard nothing" from the second and third floors.

"I wouldn't have heard it from downstairs," Augusta, 43, said when asked whether he could hear activity coming from the second and third floors of the house when he lived on the first floor.

[…]

Idaho murders: Former first floor tenant of Moscow home says he couldn't hear activity from other floors

A former tenant of the Moscow, Idaho, home where four college students were murdered on Nov. 13 says he couldn't hear activity from other floors when he lived on the first floor.

www.foxnews.com

 

[hopewell]

I go back to the basics. Who had motive and who was close to victims?

I understand that's the basics, and typically what is assumed first, but LE has essentially ruled out everyone in their immediate and peripheral circles. Likewise, if it was anyone in their close circle or any tangential connections, the car owner would be pretty easily found. They probably wouldn't even have had to ask for the public's help in that regard.

My opinion.

 

[Diogenetic]

Are we serious? Here! On this public forum! People here are constantly judging the surviving roommates! That is EXACTLY where my post is directed.

I will take your word for it, but I haven't seen it.
When I was in undergrad there was a case where a few roommates did not call EMS when one of their friends was deeply alcohol poisoned. That is both disturbing and normal. Kids don't want to have a party house shut down or get a pal in trouble for underage drinking.

I think with these surviving roommates we need to start with the fact that we do not know what they saw at all. I have a lot of spidy sense and pay attention to it, but If I were in a college, I seriously doubt my mind would assume -- or even consider -- that a mass murder had just happened while I slept unless I was looking at a dead body. Statistically there are 50 more likely possibilities. That is why I think it is most likely they did not see any dead body before calling someone else.

 

[drmrgrl]

This is exactly what I fear. I come from a small community in Canada, and almost no one locks their doors. My parents do not actually have keys to any of the doors of their home. The only homicide was over 70 years ago. But that also gives people a very strong false sense of security. I am definitely the "odd" one in my community for locking my doors.

Nothing odd about that-safety first

 

[Diogenetic]

IMO, the downstairs roommates may have only tried to contact one of the other people living there that AM. I think the roommates living upstairs had no clue this was coming and the downstairs roommates had no idea. None of them expected this to happen. I think the downstairs roommates were in a frenzied panic and if they had seen what had happened by chance, that would have been overwhelming and mind boggling to them. I say cut the downstairs roommates some slack. Can you just imagine the pall in that house that morning and the horrific smells of decomposition, vomit, urine, blood maybe feces and someone having to take that in? It’s unimaginable.

My guess is that there was plenty of vomit, urine smells occurred in an undergrad party house. Blood can be very subtle. Seems a bit early for decomposition.
I think no rational person would immediately jump to conclusion a mass murder had taken place if they were just looking at a locked door, and knocks not being answered.
We are looking at this from retrospect. We know four people were killed. The surviving roommates may have had little to no clues anything violent had occurred. On top of that we all often reject clues pointing outcomes we would prefer not to be reality.

 

[EmmieA]

I am leaning towards him not knowing the surviving girls on the first fooor were even there. Because the first floor looks detached from the 2nd and 3rd floor from the outside. Also the first floor from the outside looks like it could be a basement where you do laundry and stuff. Furthermore, I don’t think the killer and or killers wanted to leave any living witnesses. I feel if he knew someone was there on first floor he would have got in there someway somehow regardless if door was locked or not. JMO

Respectfully, I don’t understand how the killer wouldn’t know there was a ground floor or that there were rooms on that floor. The first floor has the front door; I’ve never seen a house with a front entrance that is a kitchen sliding door. To get to Xana’s room I believe you have to walk past the stairs going downstairs. And I’m not sure how the perp would get into the locked rooms if his choice of weapon was a knife.
Also, if you watched the noise complaint body cam footage, the curtains on one of the rooms were sort of sheer, it was very easy to see into that room - which sort of creeped me out.

MOO

 

[Kittycat40]

Respectfully, I don’t understand how the killer wouldn’t know there was a ground floor or that there were rooms on that floor. The first floor has the front door; I’ve never seen a house with a front entrance that is a kitchen sliding door. To get to Xana’s room I believe you have to walk past the stairs going downstairs. And I’m not sure how the perp would get into the locked rooms if his choice of weapon was a knife.
Also, if you watched the noise complaint body cam footage, the curtains on one of the rooms were sort of sheer, it was very easy to see into that room - which sort of creeped me out.

MOO

I was conflicted with this too at first but after watching several videos of the inside and outside of the house. I feel the killer or killers didn’t know the two roommates were there. I think he more than likely considered it like a basement where you store things and or do laundry.

Also I don’t think all 4 who were murdered were targeted. I think 1 or possibly 2 were targeted but as I mentioned in another post. The killer and or killers weren’t going to leave any living witnesses. Which is why the killer or killers killed all 4. Thinking he wasn’t leaving any witnesses. Not realizing that 2 were on the first floor. JMO


As far as getting into a locked bedroom door. Not hard if you’re like this killer and or killers who could pull off 4 murders in the fashion they did