ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[Fleur-de-lis]

IIRC, some of the Tylenol murders were so a wife could "safely" sneak in her husband's murder as well??? But I think, JMO, that this is more like the Closs case-- almost random glance, following up, crazy murder.

Many friends aren't following this crime, so extrapolating, many others don't even know about the Elantra. I think if someone would see the appeal about the car, some progress could be made. LE needs to expand the area to reach much further out, within 4 hours. MOOoooOoooo

 

[General wooster]

There are a ton of examples where killers use protective apparel as a forensic counter measure. Here are a few off the top of my head:

Hollywood Ripper, wore forensic booties: The Chilling Details of the Murder of Ashley Ellerin and the "Hollywood Ripper" Trial - E! Online

Jake Patterson, abducted Jayme Closs after murdering her parents. Shaved his head to prevent forensic evidence: Accused Jayme Closs kidnapper shaved his head so he would not leave hair behind at her home, authorities say

Daniel Marsh, 15year old who duct taped his shoes and left virtually no forensic evidence after stabbing an elderly couple to death: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Claudia_Maupin_and_Oliver_Northup

Every time I think the Moscow killer had to be super organized and experienced, I remember all the not-that-bright murderers who are able to successfully kill without leaving much forensic evidence behind. Some basic google searches or watching murder docus is really all people need to be able to take pretty extensive preventative measures in regards to leaving evidence...

There is always evidence. In every crime, especially murder.

 

[General wooster]

But if he left DNA and fingerprints at the murder scene as suggested, wouldn’t that in and of itself be enough for arrest?

Nope.

 

[MexterDorgan]

Nope.

Why not?

 

[TooMuchGun]

Why not?

cuz its a party house

 

[Rumination1]

Random thoughts:

If this was a student ie someone 21 or so and if the other two cases were linked (LE says they are not ) that means the suspect would have been only 18 or 19 at the time of Sandra Ladd. Who might have been in her orbit then and he’s getting progressively bolder and willing to target random victims or people who enrage him

 

[General wooster]

Why not?

Because, likely hundreds of people have left DNA and fingerprints. It’s not like a Granny house where no one visits.

 

[CityKid]

So today a lot has been talked about the mess possibly left behind by the killer or killers. There is no doubt that there was most likely blood everywhere and the killer probably had quite a bit on them. The question of bloody footprints came up. I am not so sure about that. If the killer moved quickly from victim to victim there may not have been much blood on the floor at that point. I would assume if there was a lot of blood on the floor that would have come after the killer had left. Unless he didn't leave right away I'm not sure there would be any footprints.

I agree, especially considering that in November, they'd probably be using heavy bedding. The worst of it may have been after the killers (IMO) left.

 

[maskedwoman]

They do in an arrest affidavit. Also many times with a suspect sketch, article of clothing, vehicle, video recording, or asking for public assistance before an arrest. Most murders are solved with public input IMO. Once an investigation becomes adversarial with the public, LE loses a vital necessary component to solving the crime. A well run investigation makes the public feel as though they can help, and never blames the public for interest in solving a crime.

I disagree. An arrest affidavit is prepared for the purpose of obtaining an arrest warrant, not informing the public about anything. And a very small percentage of the general public has any interest in reading an arrest affidavit. They just want the guilty party arrested, and to be reassured that their LE are up to the task of finding people who break the law. It makes them feel safer.

As for whether most murders are solved with public input, it depends on what you mean by public input. LE does request public assistance from time to time, because they recognize that normal canvassing is not going to reach someone who may have driven/passed through an area as a crime was being committed. Or, as in this case, they have a specific vehicle in mind, and they are hoping to get a tip from someone who knows a person who drives that vehicle and saw them in bloody clothes, or cleaning their car at 4am that morning. I have seen my local policy mention an tattoo, or scar when seeking public input.

However, dropping a specific pebble into the public domain and hoping the ripples reach someone who knows something is very different from encouraging the general public across the US to take an interest in a case and try to help them solve it. For every one person who notices and sleuths up something very clever and helpful, there are probably at least 5 who will point out that if it was raining that night it probably washed away footprints. There is help and then there is "help", if you get my drift.

 

[General wooster]

I agree, especially considering that in November, they'd probably be using heavy bedding. The worst of it may have been after the killers (IMO) left.

Blood dripping from the knife is more likely to have provided some trail/traces. There was apparently a great deal of blood. If LE did not find any trace of blood outside, then it would be a sad day that they will never live down. I want to believe that they are in possession of some strong information that they are not disclosing. No problem. If not, someone is losing a job.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I'm not going to quote any posts here, but just want to comment on someone being out of someone else's league. IMO JMO some of us are far more drawn to humor and brains than physical perfection. I've known some pretty abysmal people, some terrible handsome ones, and some that turned the stereotypes upside down. In addition, there's a thing called sapiosexuality, and from my POV engineers, scientists, etc. can be pretty darned hot. I can't speak for any of the victims, this is jmo, but IMO, I'd take a smart engineer over the typical 'hot jock' any day.
so just sayin' that the current relationship evaluations have a lot of unknowns in them.

 

[layer]

In addition, there's a thing called sapiosexuality

Sapiosexuality... who knew?

 

[gliving]

I was 19 then and in his target demographic, so it seemed to me to take forever until that parking ticket and the witness who called police about a creepy guy who was walking in that area.

And Son of Sam was an attention-seeker, sending very weird letters to the police and to the famous reporter, Jimmy Breslin. He seemed to thrive on the publicity. Those letters sent the police in many different directions, but eventually were part of the evidence leading to the killer.

In this case, unless LE is withholding it, there seems to be no communication nor attempt at publicity from the murderer. Therefore IMO it will take quite awhile to solve, but I agree it isn't cold by any means.

Of course LE has DNA now which was not part of the LE arsenal in 1977. There's an awful lot for LE to wade through, though.

The addition of the FBI and ISP to the small-town MPD is essential, IMO, and I'm very happy they're working together.

Merry Christmas and happy Chanukah to everyone.

Your post reminded me that Dennis Rader (BTK) serial killer also wrote letters. In fact that's how LE caught him in the end. He used a floppy disc to send a file to a radio station and the disc was traced back to his church. While I was googling to update myself on those facts I found that many other killers wrote letters.

• 1888. Jack the Ripper.
• 1934. Albert Hamilton Fish. a.k.a. The Gray Man, The Moon Maniac, The Brooklyn Vampire. ...
• 1946. William Heirens. ...
• 1960s-1970s. The Zodiac Killer. ...
• 1969. The Manson Family. ...
• 1977. David Berkowitz. ...
• 1990s. Keith Jesperson. ...
• 2004. Dennis Rader.

article is Jul 6, 2017 so there may be newer cases I'm not aware of.

The Letters & Notes of BTK, David Berkowitz and Other Killers

Killers who leave notes at crime scenes or mail missives to police and the press take a big risk. Read stories and watch videos about eight murderers who just had to put it in writing.

www.aetv.com

BTK killer sends message | January 25, 2005 | HISTORY

On January 25, 2005, a Wichita, Kansas, television station receives a postcard from the BTK killer that leads police to discover a Post Toasties cereal box that had been altered to contain the letters BTK. This communication was one in a long line sent by the serial killer who terrorized Wichita...

www.history.com

So, maybe it's a part of their pathology that they are compelled to write letters. Perhaps the UI murderer will also feel compelled to communicate. Or maybe they already have.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

cuz its a party house

I.C.R. 4. Warrant - Summons - Determination of Probable Cause | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

1) In General. The finding of probable cause must be based on substantial evidence, which may be hearsay in whole or in part, provided there is a substantial basis, considering the totality of the circumstances, to believe probable cause exists for the warrant. The magistrate may rely on information provided in the form of an affidavit or sworn oral statement.

(Emphasis mine)

IMO it would depend on source of the DNA and where it was found. (eg and JMO fingerprint on doorframe no; trail of blood out of the house, then we're talking) and again IMO

editing to add: the source is Idaho Criminal Rule 4. Arrest Warrant; Summons; Determination of Probable Cause

 

[layer]

Your post reminded me that Dennis Rader (BTK) serial killer also wrote letters. In fact that's how LE caught him in the end. He used a floppy disc to send a file to a radio station and the disc was traced back to his church. While I was googling to update myself on those facts I found that many other killers wrote letters.

• 1888. Jack the Ripper.
• 1934. Albert Hamilton Fish. a.k.a. The Gray Man, The Moon Maniac, The Brooklyn Vampire. ...
• 1946. William Heirens. ...
• 1960s-1970s. The Zodiac Killer. ...
• 1969. The Manson Family. ...
• 1977. David Berkowitz. ...
• 1990s. Keith Jesperson. ...
• 2004. Dennis Rader.

article is Jul 6, 2017 so there may be newer cases I'm not aware of.

The Letters & Notes of BTK, David Berkowitz and Other Killers

Killers who leave notes at crime scenes or mail missives to police and the press take a big risk. Read stories and watch videos about eight murderers who just had to put it in writing.

www.aetv.com

BTK killer sends message | January 25, 2005 | HISTORY

On January 25, 2005, a Wichita, Kansas, television station receives a postcard from the BTK killer that leads police to discover a Post Toasties cereal box that had been altered to contain the letters BTK. This communication was one in a long line sent by the serial killer who terrorized Wichita...

www.history.com

So, maybe it's a part of their pathology that they compelled to write letters. Perhaps the UI murderer will also feel compelled to communicate. Or maybe they already have.

I would add:
The Axeman of New Orleans
John Allen Muhammad (the Beltway Sniper)

 

[detectivewannab]

Your post reminded me that Dennis Rader (BTK) serial killer also wrote letters. In fact that's how LE caught him in the end. He used a floppy disc to send a file to a radio station and the disc was traced back to his church. While I was googling to update myself on those facts I found that many other killers wrote letters.

• 1888. Jack the Ripper.
• 1934. Albert Hamilton Fish. a.k.a. The Gray Man, The Moon Maniac, The Brooklyn Vampire. ...
• 1946. William Heirens. ...
• 1960s-1970s. The Zodiac Killer. ...
• 1969. The Manson Family. ...
• 1977. David Berkowitz. ...
• 1990s. Keith Jesperson. ...
• 2004. Dennis Rader.

article is Jul 6, 2017 so there may be newer cases I'm not aware of.

The Letters & Notes of BTK, David Berkowitz and Other Killers

Killers who leave notes at crime scenes or mail missives to police and the press take a big risk. Read stories and watch videos about eight murderers who just had to put it in writing.

www.aetv.com

BTK killer sends message | January 25, 2005 | HISTORY

On January 25, 2005, a Wichita, Kansas, television station receives a postcard from the BTK killer that leads police to discover a Post Toasties cereal box that had been altered to contain the letters BTK. This communication was one in a long line sent by the serial killer who terrorized Wichita...

www.history.com

So, maybe it's a part of their pathology that they compelled to write letters. Perhaps the UI murderer will also feel compelled to communicate. Or maybe they already have.

This case is similar to the college killings in 1990 at The University of Florida at Gainesville.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Trying this again: Section 49-944 – Idaho State Legislature

This is ID state legislature re window tinting @TooMuchGun

 

[Helechawagirl]

I linked to the only confirmed story of footprints remotely 'related' to the case. However I have since gone back through the thread and realised the single print being referred to was likely rumour based. My bad.

Nancy Grace had a shoe print on her site purported to be from the crime scene.

 

[rahod1]

So today a lot has been talked about the mess possibly left behind by the killer or killers. There is no doubt that there was most likely blood everywhere and the killer probably had quite a bit on them. The question of bloody footprints came up. I am not so sure about that. If the killer moved quickly from victim to victim there may not have been much blood on the floor at that point. I would assume if there was a lot of blood on the floor that would have come after the killer had left. Unless he didn't leave right away I'm not sure there would be any footprints.

There ae BLOODY FOOTPRINTS and there are FOOTPRINTS. The latter can be from residue (from outside) left on the soles. So you could definitely have footprints of the killer present. The caveat here is that killer can destroy those easily, rendering the evidence *useless* (other than shoe size/style). This is what happened in OJ case of bloody footprints>>>they finally linked them to OJ AFTER the trial when they found pics of him wearing that distinctive shoe that he said he would never wear (*ugly a$$ shoes*). However, they did use that evidence to convict him the civil trial.

 

[SRWCF]

cuz its a party house

And perhaps that is why LE said they didn't know whether it was the house or a specific victim that was targeted, they only knew it was a "targeted attack" based on a culmination of the evidence they had at the time they made that statement.

A perp could easily have targeted the house (not knowing any of the victims) thinking he'd have a great chance at getting away with the crime since it was a known party house and there was likely DNA of hundreds of people in there.