ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

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Is your point about Bundy that he would be caught quickly today because of DNA? Or something else? Because he's a planner, I would surmise that he would have adjusted to the times. I disagree with your point about risk.

I agree that some killers are smart enough to limit risk. Some can control their impulses. And some are opportunists. Bjt many killers who plan murders have antisocial tendencies, which include risk taking, impulsiveness and manipulation. Thrill seeking can a key element when you are killing for the love of the game. I say this as someone who has sat in the room with many people with Antisocial Personality Disorder, including psychopaths. When they tell their stories about their crimes they often revel in their risk taking, limit testing and when they almost get caught. They also often insert themselves in investigations, which carries enormous risk.

My brother used to be tagger (graffiti) in Baltimore. You know what he loved? Doing something sneaky and getting chased by cops, lol.

I'm sure the thrill for some killers includes being chased, etc! Yes.
 
Saw the latest body cam footage of another noise complaint on 9/2. Someone was definitely fed up with the noise coming from that house. Also it was pitch black darkness outside beyond the cops' flashlights.
One thing to keep in mind>>> NO ONE in their right mind would REPORT a complaint to LE and then proceed to KILL those associated with the complaint. OK...so it's another neighbor who was annoyed and never registered a complaint? Doubt it. MOO
 
A perfect house for an attack would be a house that is single story, gives an easy opportunity for the killer to escape if something goes wrong, has multiple escape routes, preferably near canals or creeks or main roads that will allow the killer to easily blend after an attack. This house is the opposite of that. For one, you have only two escape routes, one of which is filled with cameras and I would imagine the route through the back bushes and Walenta Dr is also camera friendly given the amount of houses there. You need to know where specifically you are going not to get caught. It'd be pretty weird being a car or person passing through there at 4:00 in the morning and you'd be the first suspect if you're spotted. And in a small town such as Moscow it wouldn't be that difficult to find you. Also, I would imagine that parking at Walenta Dr would raise quite a few eyebrows from people passing through there and you'd have to be incredibly lucky not to have someone notice or pass through there while you're doing your crime.

The parking behind the house is also an awfully risky spot, albeit it does have a nice vantage point of the house. The reason for that is that cars come and go from there constantly. It is situated next to the apartments in an overall a lively area and active college party scene. You can be easily spotted by someone coming with his headlights on. Then you'd have to assume that a person simply parking his car in Walenta Dr would stand out to others and he'd have to be enormously lucky not have someone pass through there and notice. If he instead decides to pass through Taylor Ave up to King Road then that's even worse since it's even easier to spot you from there. You're going to be walking/driving past a minefield of cameras up to the house.

The house itself is problematic - multiple stories, built like a maze, people living on all three floors, multiple doors and bedrooms on every floor. You kinda have to know what you're doing and where you are because you'd be putting yourself in huge danger at any moment you're in that house. And finally - if something goes on, whether during the attack or someone hears something, the killer is virtually screwed. There's no escape from that area.


I disagree. How many neighbors are in that area? Hundreds? Police do not have time to comb through them, at least not in any deep capacity. It would allow the killer to know the victims, possibly even be acquainted with them, but not be under any severe scrutiny from the police. It also allows him the opportunity to know the area itself, have intimate knowledge of the victim's movements and to have a very easy escape route back to his home. And unless you have footage that would put the perp at the crime scene around that hour, what do you have on him? And even then, so what? He lives in that area. It's the perfect excuse.

Well, they want the car because they don't know who the occupants are, that's the problem. For all we know, they might have already identified the car without even realizing it. Unless you have something to distinguish that specific Elantra from others or the suspect's face or general build, it would be impossible to actually tell whether that is the killer's car or some random civilian. At this point the Elantra itself as evidence might be useless. It might be helpful to narrow down the suspect list if they are 100% convinced it is the killer,'s but the car as evidence of itself is pointless.

I think the closest would be the Setagaya family murders and the Keddie Murders. Unfortunately, the former hasn't been solved, but imo I'm of the belief that it was one of these skateboarders Setagaya's family had beef with. With the Keddie Murders I think it is pretty obvious it was the neighbor and should have been solved if not for the absolute shocking state of police incompetency and possibly corruption.
Moo, the Idaho University Murders runs parallel to the Napa Halloween case.

Napa Halloween murders:

- Followers of the case and LE have both suspected an ex as a possible killer
- Stalker we’re also floated out since one of the victim was a former beauty Queen and was undoubtly attractive.
- Many believe it could be someone who had been rejected by one of the girls

In the end, these speculations were completely wrong.

It took LE a year to solved the Napa case. I was genuinely surprised when the killer Identity has been revealed.

 
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<modsnip - quoted post was removed for disparaging LE>


Anyone familiar with Ben and Erika Sifrit, the "Thrill Kill Couple"? They used a gun in their murders but it's clear that some killers enjoy killing together. I still think it's possible there was more than one perp involved in these murders.

I'm kind of stuck on the thrill kill scenario today. Several WSer's have gone into detail about the mind states of these killers, and this is the first case I've ever looked at or been involved in that *could* be a thrill kill. If it is, two perps are entirely possible (In Cold Blood, The Onion Field, etc). Thrill kill couples must surely bond over killing at some point. They must surely nurse their rage and panic and hostility and general craziness, until they boil over into a compulsive act, which WSer point out might make them feel...superior.

I'm not ruling anything out but today, I am considering thrill/entertainment kill. I've gone through neighbor wars, close acquaintances, local SO's, serial killers and mass murderers.

Still stuck.
 
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This makes me wonder :
The time of death per LE is 03:00 - 04:00. Since K and M's last known awake hours were 02:52 while they texted , they couldn't have been killed at 03:00. So I wonder if LE starts the time at 03:00 as they have found out from the beginning that E and X, who arrived at the house at 01:45, had been killed first . And then the perp should have waited a while and went on to upstairs ? Or does LE state like that for another reason

That is what I suspect happened. JMO IMI The killer was waiting, hidden, in X&E's room. Killed them, and any noises heard were normal enough to be considered just young couple in love on a Saturday night. IMO JMO the killer then waited in X&E's room with access to the window, and able to make a run for it, if discovered, but they could be pretty sure no one was coming into that room. So they waited until K&M were asleep and then went in for Round Two (the reason for their visit in the first place) imo.

editing to add: as I think of it, this may be something else SG meant when he said the killer didn't have to go upstairs. Maybe LE told him about the timing/potential waiting. I have no way of knowing, this is JMO, but it would make sense with why SG knew K&M were the targets.
 
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Respectfully, as a Greek Life Alumni, there is no way my sorority or brothers would purposely keep silent about a deranged killer who viciously murdered 4 fellow members. Were missteps and questionable actions covered up and overlooked during those early learning years? Absolutely, but not something of this magnitude. No way IMO.

There is strong sense of fellowship/family among members and I believe if someone had reliable information, they would get it to LE right away.

JMO
Respectfully, as well. I think there is a misunderstanding.

TO BE CLEAR - I did NOT SAY, and would not say, that any organization or any members had anything to do with this crime!
I did say:
“All IMO IMOO Still think greek-life is a factor, whether/not an actual member is involved. It does impact the investigation, maybe causing the lack of confirmed (not anonymous) information.” I also said, “secrecy commands loyalty.”

All IMO
I hope that everyone with anything has submitted everything!
-There are probably many more anonymous tips than ID’d tipsters.
-Just makes sense that first submissions would be anonymous, by most people, most students, most members of greek life – about ANY information
-Members may not know what they have, especially if it is in the background and not really related. So unlikely to offer something.

Quote: “They feel they "took an oath of silence, a bond" Nuwer said.
'An oath of silence': The secret world of fraternity pledging and how it contributes to hazing deaths - ABC News (go.com)

I think this same concept applies here. I am not saying anything about the local fraternities, any specific fraternity or university anywhere, just greek life dynamics overall. Just an opinion.

I apologize for the misunderstanding. I'll try to be more clear.
Thank you.
 
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I think it is possible they have identified their car. Now they may be looking to identify all the other white Elantras in the area. They do that so they can contact those owners to eliminate them as possibilities. Remember the police saying they want a conviction, not just an arrest. They could be getting their ducks in a row to head off a defense claim that "it was someone else's Elantra."
imo jmo hopefully, they'll have white Elantra with victim DNA in it and/or some other nexus between suspect/car/murders. The whole white Elantra thing can't hang on one photo, no plate. IMO
 
If a responsible adult had the cops come to their door about noise, they might think long and hard about turning the volume back up. I think it’s not disregard for the law, but adolescent behavior in play on King Road.

I’ve seen some pretty bad hazing come to light because emails and texts were shared between parties. Just like the CC image came out, somebody would end up forwarding an image or info. Sure Greek life has attorneys and national chapters that advise silence, but somebody would leak something anonymously. I don’t think this has anything to do with Greek life. I can’t imagine a reason for taking four lives. I am not capable of understanding how a human could do this, so I’ve given up on the why.
 
I don’t understand the importance of the bar video to the murder since LE still stands by their decision to clear JD as a suspect. They must have a pretty good evidence supporting their decision to eliminate the ex from the pool of possible poi.
my guess: there really is no significance, but it sure makes for clickbait and provides something 'new' as we all wait for the real thing. this is jmo imo.
 
Didn't he fixed the lock instead of change it.
You may be correct about whether or not Xana's father simply fixed or changed out the locks. So many pieces of information can sometimes cause confusion simply by how things are worded.

It got me to thinking about the 911 call made the morning of November 13th. Maybe the reason the call was regarding a possible unconscious person is because no one could get into the rooms where the victims were located? But that would mean the doors to enter the rooms were locked. Maybe this was already thought of? I know it is more guesswork, but it makes sense if you cannot physically see the victims but are sure they are at home sleeping yet they do not respond.

Maybe wake up alarms were going off?
 
X (and M) were part of a sorority that was known for being full of party girls, according to Greek Rank. Maybe her grades dropped and she pulled them up, simple as that.

Or something else. No evidence either way at this time, though.
From what I saw on Greek rank their sorority at UofI is actually known as a 'smart' one (and Pi Phi's had that rep elsewhere iirc)
University of Idaho - UI - Pi Beta Phi Sorority Ratings - Greekrank

Alpha Phi more about 'looks':
Either way frats and sororities have min standards of grades for eligibility.

But I agree, we don't know why he said what he did, just interesting word choice.
 
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From what I saw on Greek rank their sorority at UofI is actually known as a 'smart' one (and Pi Phi's had that rep elsewhere iirc)
University of Idaho - UI - Pi Beta Phi Sorority Ratings - Greekrank

Alpha Phi more about 'looks':
Either way frats and sororities have min standards of grades for eligibility.

But I agree, we don't know why he said what he did, just interesting word choice.

Huh, I guess I missed that one word ranking for their reputation. I just read through the reviews people wrote.
 
Since Xana Kernodle's father was inside the home changing out locks the week prior to the murders, I think it may have been Xana who had a feeling something was wrong.

That is the main problem with this case. Without a clear motive, it is hard to understand whether this was personal and targeted or a stranger killer. We all make guesses because we do not know.
IMO, it sounds like a stealthy kleptomaniac-I think people used to refer to them as “ cat burglars” Now, I am wondering if the killings had to do with a previous tenants behavior. This is all so creepy. It’s almost as if whomever is breaking in is looking for something that is stashed in the house. If the house had a reputation as a “ party “ house- that makes me think two things: money or drugs. God forbid, these four were killed as a result of mistaken identity.
 
Early on, somebody here said that "unconscious person" could basically be a dispatcher's way to get the cops to the scene. Like a generic code, kind of.

I think that's what probably happened. You're just not going to describe a horrific scene of dead people over the scanner if you can avoid it, imo.
 
In that case the killer would have tortured the victims.

And there is always a motive. We may not know it right now or understand it when we do find out what it was, but there is always a motive.

JMO
Not always. Compulsion is more personal, and a strong, usually irresistible impulse to perform an act, (especially one that is irrational or contrary to one's will). Whereas motive is defined as the underlying reason for any action. To justify the behavior. Human beings can operate from a variety of motivations, many of them often negative. Pride, anger, revenge, a sense of entitlement, or the desire for approval can all be motivating catalysts for our actions.
My brother used to be tagger (graffiti) in Baltimore. You know what he loved? Doing something sneaky and getting chased by cops, lol.

I'm sure the thrill for some killers includes being chased, etc! Yes.
I can relate to your brother. Growing up in a certain environment and area can trigger automatic “running” from the Po Po too. Cat & mouse.
Who leaked it?
Next…Dog the bounty hunter will show up to help SOLVE the homicides. Please…NO. I too detest the side show.
 
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IMO, it sounds like a stealthy kleptomaniac-I think people used to refer to them as “ cat burglars” Now, I am wondering if the killings had to do with a previous tenants behavior. This is all so creepy. It’s almost as if whomever is breaking in is looking for something that is stashed in the house. If the house had a reputation as a “ party “ house- that makes me think two things: money or drugs. God forbid, these four were killed as a result of mistaken identity.
Anything is possible at this point in the game. False leads take LE down dead end rabbit holes while the killer bides his time. JMOO.
 
Moo, the Idaho University Murders runs parallel to the Napa Halloween case.

Napa Halloween murders:

- Followers of the case and LE have both suspected an ex as a possible killer
- Stalker we’re also floated out since one of the victim was a former beauty Queen and was undoubtly attractive.
- Many believe it could be someone who had been rejected by one of the girls

In the end, these speculations were completely wrong.

It took LE a year to solved the Napa case. I was genuinely surprised when the killer Identity has been revealed.

Thanks for posting the article, I was looking for that particular case the other day after remembering a doco I watched years ago about unlikely killers, but couldn’t find it. He murdered his wife’s 2 friends over nothing! I’m very disappointed in Lily’s reaction, it wasn’t included in the doco, she’s probably flattered he’d kill for her! I’d spit in his face!
I am thinking could it be something bizarre in this case too? Nothing justifies murdering these young vibrant people, but a twisted mind, not mentally ill, could find a reason, any reason! Ugh
 
Very much on the same page. I think this person is an "aged out" college student. Someone who likely pretends to be in grad school but in fact didn't finish undergrad. Pretends to have a scholarship or financial aid, but has some other revenue stream, likely including money from mom or dad who would prefer he stay at school. Is living in some form of student housing without university permission or knowledge (happens all the time). May have had some trouble with the law, but mostly has not been caught as his life of petty crime progresses to increasingly serious crime. I would not be surprised if he was eventually linked to other crimes in Moscow, perhaps going back to 2015. I think he's 25-28 years old and is known to be difficult, volatile and has brittle relationships.

I think this person may not have friends, but is living amongst people. I agree that the killer is mostly working out the gym, fantasizing, listening to music, eating other people's food, etc.

---------

I am SO enjoying everyone's posts today (this thread has been awesome from the beginning). I'm about to go out and run errands, but am spellbound by everyone's takes and will catch up later today!
I agree except for the working out part. I feel like if the perp worked out it was in the past at the very most.

Also going back to multiple people in a vehicle . . . If there was indeed more than one person participating then I actually think the age range could be lowered to college age based on a peer pressure factor.
 
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