ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 6

[late1]

I’m not making myself clear haha. I would think that a killer would want to look their target in the eyes, or have their target look at them, as they started their attack.

I don't think a killer would want to look their target in the eyes or have their target look at them. Where did you learn that?

 

[TL4S]

<snipped> Coroner Has New Details About Fatal Slaying of 4 U of Idaho Students After Autopsies

Mabbutt said that the victims showed "little bit of bruising" but "nothing significant." She added that some bruising "wouldn't be uncommon during a stabbing."

Mabbutt couldn't say how many times each victim was stabbed but said it was safe to say each of them had multiple wounds. She declined to say where on the body they were stabbed and later clarified that the victims were stabbed in different places and a different amount of times.

Mabbutt said it was likely the four had bled out in the home.

She said DNA samples have been taken from the scene and are being processed. When pressed, she said it was "possible" that some of the DNA being tested may not be of the four victims.

"There were nail clippings that were taken, and other ones that are being sent off, and so that will be processed," she said.

This article also says each victim was stabbed in different places and different number of times. Perhaps that will help determine who the target was. So, so very sad.

 

[Pennysmom1]

I believe that they are aware of a suspect and just waiting for conclusive test results to come back.

I found it odd that none of the officials at the press conference gave safety tips to the public (lock your doors, go everywhere with a buddy, curfews, etc) This makes me think it was a targeted attack only and the public is not in danger.

 

[Manwel]

And drunk.. question: when did other kids arrive in the house.. and call 911? Who were they? If they saw an "unresponsive person" as reported on 911.. wouldn't they have been horrified at what they saw of the blood, stabbing?

My current theory is that one of the victims on the second floor (main floor) was lying face down in the living room or kitchen. Somewhere the roommate would have seen. There was no immediate indication of why they were lying face down, they saw no visible wounds, and they got so freaked out that they called a friend to come over and check on them.

Since they live across from a frat, maybe five minutes later someone could show up. So maybe 2-3 people show up and one of them actually approached the body and perhaps felt for a pulse. Maybe they didn't. Regardless, they say the cops need to be called. Meanwhile, the 20-year-old freaked out in a corner is too afraid to call and makes someone else do it.

Note on this: We've heard from Kaylee's sister that she would call people just to ask what she should eat. I was on public transit last night and overheard some college students discussing the following topic: "Should we go eat if we get hungry? Do we want to do that?" Gen Z is way too accustomed to phoning a friend to do simple and basic things. Imagine a girl scared and freaked out about someone lying on the ground not moving. She's likely to phone a friend to help her decide how to proceed. Cops arrive, all of them give statements, and cops go on tour of the rest of the house to find more dead bodies.

The better question here is what did the roommate and other individuals do after finding ONE body? Did they ignore the rest of the house or did they go try to find the others? If they went to find the others, and found those crime scenes—which have been called "messy" now by the police—then we land back at the same question everyone has had: Why call it in as unconscious person?

The only reasons I can land upon are the following:

1. The killer pulled the bedclothes over the victims to cover them and make them look like they're sleeping. Someone peeks in and sees someone "sleeping" instead of a dead body.

2. The roommate(s) and the other friends didn't go check on the other rooms and assumed they were still asleep. But this seems really implausible if you find a person lying face down in your house.

 

[NeverPersonal]

It had one bit of key info which unless he misspoke was to confirm all 4 were asleep when killed. That’s big IMHO as it removes the - killer bumped into some by chance/had to kill them due to witnesses angle - so I’d be asking now what have the 4 got in common compared to the two who were left alone.

But there was also a "physical struggle". I think 2 were sleeping when killed and 2 were sleeping when attacked and tried to fight back (Ethan & Xana). imho.

 

[late1]

I guess it would be far easier to initially subdue a sleeping person, that’s probably when we are at our most vulnerable. How that person knew everyone was asleep is another thing. Maybe they just got lucky on that front.

Yes, and early sleep is usually deep sleep, people are very difficult to wake shortly after they fall asleep.

 

[208alum]

Hey y'all, first time poster here. I made an account just to comment here as I am an alum of the University of Idaho and from Coeur d' Alene, ID and this whole horrific act really hits home. I was also in a sorority and lived off campus in my upperclassmen years and had so, so many nights just like these poor, young souls. I have been going through every page I can here as I just can't get this off my mind and these are some of my thoughts on it so far.

- I think this killer is someone who was/is living in Moscow or surrounding areas and is not currently a student. I also think they are a hunter and are trained with using a knife for hunting. I don't think this is someone that really knew these women but someone that crossed paths and became obsessed. A terrifying sicko that amplified his obsession with social media.

- I think this person obsessively followed one or some of them on social media and this could possibly be how they knew what the girls were doing that night.

- I think whoever did this was watching their target (imo Kaylee) from behind the house in the wooded area. I think he had been watching/stalking for a while as a thrill undetected. Maybe he met Kaylee and Madison at Mad Greek and became infatuated and obsessive. Followed one home one night and kept returning. I think the night of the murders he was in his hiding spot and waited for the lights to go out and some time to pass before he made his move.

- I think social media is a big thing to look at. These were very social girls who documented their lives often. I think it is likely if you followed Kaylee on social media you would be able to put together her big new job, graduating early, plans to move etc. and that the killer was following her/them closely. Maybe from a burner account probably. She or Madison or the other roommates could've even posted Instagram stories of her empty bedroom, moving out, etc. documenting a lot. This would explain also if Kaylee was sleeping in Madison's room. Between her and Madison and their social media pages, the killer may have been able to piece together that Kaylee had made a surprise, last-minute visit back to Moscow to see her bestie Madison last Saturday. This could have been a trigger? Kaylee had moved out and was not planning on even going back to U of I except to go show her friend her new car. Could the killer have felt the urgency to take that "last" opportunity to kill Kaylee?


Praying for the families and friends involved and for a break in the case soon.

Edit: I was born and raised in Coeur D' Alene, ID and the only case that even comes close to the horror of this would be the Groene Case. Heavy, heavy hearts in the community.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

when asked if the killer was "still in Moscow or somewhere else" they said they are looking all over....

As well as they should. They're not going to show their cards. They're not going to tell the public that they have the suspect under 24 hour surveillance lol.

 

[Manwel]

This article also says each victim was stabbed in different places and different number of times. Perhaps that will help determine who the target was. So, so very sad.

Can this woman make one consistent statement from one day to another? Two days ago it was the chest and upper torso. Today it's all different places?

A few days ago it was all of them stabbed about the same amount. Today is a different number of times?

Can we get one thing from her that doesn't change?

She said a few days ago they were "stabbed in bed." But is that just her flaky take based on a hunch? There was a struggle but they're all neatly found in bed? But yet they also refuse to say where they were all found?

 

[isabella88]

Hey y'all, first time poster here. I made an account just to comment here as I am an alum of the University of Idaho and from Coeur d' Alene, ID and this whole horrific act really hits home. I was also in a sorority and lived off campus in my upperclassmen years and had so, so many nights just like these poor, young souls. I have been going through every page I can here as I just can't get this off my mind and these are some of my thoughts on it so far.

- I think this killer is someone who was/is living in Moscow or surrounding areas and is not currently a student. I also think they are a hunter and are trained with using a knife for hunting. I don't think this is someone that really knew these women but someone that crossed paths and became obsessed. A terrifying sicko that amplified his obsession with social media.

- I think this person obsessively followed one or some of them on social media and this could possibly be how they knew what the girls were doing that night.

- I think whoever did this was watching their target (imo Kaylee) from behind the house in the wooded area. I think he had been watching/stalking for a while as a thrill undetected. Maybe he met Kaylee and Madison at Mad Greek and became infatuated and obsessive. Followed one home one night and kept returning. I think the night of the murders he was in his hiding spot and waited for the lights to go out and some time to pass before he made his move.

- I think social media is a big thing to look at. These were very social girls who documented their lives often. I think it is likely if you followed Kaylee on social media you would be able to put together her big new job, graduating early, plans to move etc. and that the killer was following her/them closely. Maybe from a burner account probably. She or Madison or the other roommates could've even posted Instagram stories of her empty bedroom, moving out, etc. documenting a lot. This would explain also if Kaylee was sleeping in Madison's room. Between her and Madison and their social media pages, the killer may have been able to piece together that Kaylee had made a surprise, last-minute visit back to Moscow to see her bestie Madison last Saturday. This could have been a trigger? Kaylee had moved out and was not planning on even going back to U of I except to go show her friend her new car. Could the killer have felt the urgency to take that "last" opportunity to kill Kaylee?


Praying for the families and friends involved and for a break in the case soon.

Welcome! Thank you for the local insight!

 

[Tealgrove]

Reporters, these days read social media by way of research.
Perhaps it was a question they saw frequently.

Presumably they have interviewed the caller and checked their story so could confidently clear him or her.
I don't think there is anything to suggest LE are lying.

Funny you should say this.

Every question I heard asked today I’ve heard here multiple times.

 

[debirlfan]

If every single initial strike didn’t immediately kill them, they would be able to scream right? I imagine some screaming and others waking up to help, but no 911 calls is strange.

Hard to understand how one person kills four people with a knife. If they were out partying earlier, I suppose it's possible they'd been drinking and were sleeping heavily (and might have been slow to react when wakened) - but are they absolutely sure there was only a single killer?

 

[TL4S]

I would've like to think so. I can only speak from personal experience as someone who thought she could scream bloody murder if anyone attacked me, that's not always true. I was disappointed in myself, but I couldn't squeak out even a sound.

I think it's easy to underestimate how difficult it might be to scream if you wake up with somebody's body weight on top of you and a stab wound anywhere on your upper torso. It might be too painful, or impossible, to scream, or even breathe for that matter. Jmo.

 

[edezx2192195]

Could it be possible the perp took a shower/cleaned themselves up before leaving?
Maybe why there wasn’t anyone seen covered in blood.
Maybe brought a change of clothes?

 

[margarita25]

I am SO glad the University is working with students to accommodate their academic needs remotely, should they choose to vacate, if not only for their own peace of minds, but for their families’ also, because right now imo there is a VERY GOOD CHANCE this could be someone in their community.

I know we can all empathize with the fear the locals must be feeling, but I’ve got to say, unless you’ve actually BEEN in that situation, it’s hard to imagine the extent of the horror, the terror...

As many of you know, I experienced this via a child abduction and murder involving dismemberment, with body parts found, in my area which brought me here to WS, a brutal killer loose in my community, thankfully only for a relatively short period of time, but I literally lost my mind, words can not express.

I quit my job there, moved away from the area, and refuse to step foot near there if I can avoid it ten years later. The trauma will always be there, and to this day there are scars, seeing garbage bags on the side of the road, wondering if there are body parts in there, etc, etc.

So to all of the new members here and University and community members who are experiencing this fear and terror and horror right now, please know there are people here who have been through what you have and understand how you feel. It really is like being in a real life horror movie, which I always said at the time.

There were so many things that are coming to the surface for me with this, the awful, awful experience of wondering if the person in line next to you at the grocery store is the killer, or someone walking down the sidewalk, because LE pretty much said it could be someone in the community. It turns out I did spot him walking down the sidewalk when I went out looking for him, but that’s another story. Basically I saw him and said, “nah, too young”. Turns out he was 17, and someone who lived very close in the neighborhood. He was the ONLY one out walking around when everyone else was in their houses scared straight.

My point, I’m seeing a lot of new members here, some I suspect are very local, I just want you to know how much I understand, tears.

 

[Curiosa20]

Exactly, and it is upsetting.

It is very wrong. And it is a major violation of WS rules. And if no one believes it after repeated warnings, they’ll get it when the whole Space is closed.

 

[Aus94]

What do you think: they stated that the victims were on the 2nd and 3rd floors. Does that mean the 2 unharmed roommates were asleep on the first floor and heard/saw nothing? Or did they come home after the crime was committed? Do you have any sense of this from what we know so far?

This is actually a great question… has it ever been confirmed the surviving roommates weren’t on the same floor as one of the victims or have we all just assumed?

 

[clearskies1]

I would really like to hear the 911 call. It was reported earlier, I think in the police press release, that EMS arrived but did not enter the building. I find this odd because this was a medical call. Even if the cops arrived first, the mere presence of a lot of blood would not be enough to NOT attempt resusitation. Someone could be near death, apparently not breathing, and have an undetectable pulse and still be revived.

I cannot find any law in Idaho regulating who can determine death. In Utah it requires a physician. In Spokane County Washington there is no state law and the county policy is that an EMT, paramedic, physician, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or RN can do it. Note that cops can't, although many cops are EMTs or paramedics as well.

So I don't understand why the EMS crew did not go in. I do not suspect anything nefarious. Just observing that this seems highly unusual. No matter how bad the scene was, it is not a reason to withhold care until death has been declared.

If EMS received information about a potential violent crime when they first arrived, they would not enter until police came, entered, and gave the all clear that it was a safe scene.

 

[Murphy1950]

I am not sure what they even mean by "targeted." Some random weirdo fixating on one of the girls could be targeted.

Or an earlier encounter that was reported to the police that involved one of the girls. For example there is a report posted here in this thread this morning that speaks of a man approaching some female students with a knife in early fall of this year. If that was Kaylee or Maddie and an officer/s recognized the name or the person upon seeing the victim/s, I can see them thinking targeted. (and because it was targeted, concluding others weren't at risk) If they don't have him in handcuffs, how could they possibly know if anyone else was in danger?

But I personally think stating the second part of their conclusion was way premature, regardless of the reason.

from Sept 2022 police report

 

[Manwel]

Could it be possible the perp took a shower/cleaned themselves up before leaving?
Maybe why there wasn’t anyone seen covered in blood.
Maybe brought a change of clothes?

You're leaving behind your DNA in someone's tub/shower stall. Someone does that, that's a big risk, maybe a novice move, suggestive of someone who hasn't even watched a CSI episode to know they'll pluck hairs from a drain and test them.

Someone doesn't shower, brings a change of clothes, stuffs their bloody ones in a bag, that's not a novice move, that's preparation, that's experience.