ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 8

[positive]

I hope this does not turn into a situation like kyron horman case where the local LE did not do what was best for the case but instead covered up their own inadequacies for self preservation. I get these vibes when I hear that other seemingly possibly related incidents are now “unfounded” . Bad optics aT a minimum. IMHOO

I hope that also. I think that this report may have been made by 2 young women who are on high alert and scared. It was probably nothing but the state of tension and fear caused them to report.
I am glad it was reported and investigated.

 

[sunshineray]

I think this is it:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594414805682688001

Ok, I did see that one but it just looks like an investigator squatting down to see what can be seen from that vantage point. Doesn't look like what was described in the post. Thanks you for responding.

 

[ACG2x]

Random odds & ends thoughts - all MOO of course:

• Still strongly believe the killer is a male ages 18-30 who is unsophisticated at murder - this likely was his first time - and was enraged at one or more of the victims because of some perceived wrong, quite possibly unrequited love or affection. The murders were done in a violent rage and he left the crime scene very sloppy.
• The reason we don't have an arrest or suspect yet is not because there isn't evidence, but because there is too much and they are being careful and certain before honing in on someone. In a quad homicide that was this violent, processing the crime scene takes a lot of time and given the notoriety this case has generated, once they make an arrest, it has to - I cannot stress this enough - stick.
• Even if the killer had only been to the house once, or even never, it would still have been relatively easy to determine the basic layout of it because all of the roommates posted multiple videos inside of it. There are also easily accessible pictures of the home and it's floorplan on real estate sites. Having a killer who had been there a bunch of times is not necessary here. I would assume part of the forensic investigation is to check if any IP addresses visited the real estate or floor plan layout a significant number of times in the weeks or days leading up to the murders.
• I believe the killer didn't go downstairs at all. He likely either accomplished his 'mission' and killed his intended target(s) on the second and third floors and may have forgotten or not known there were two additional bedrooms on the ground floor. If you look at pictures of the home, the first floor stairs are not easily visible especially in the middle of the night. The stairs to the ground floor are in the far corner of the second floor from where the killer entered through the sliding glass door so they'd be easy to miss in the dark. I also believe after killings happened in his rage and after it was over, he 'came to' and realized OK I need to get out of here vs. staying in the house longer and risking exposure.
• This is also why I think he's unsophisticated in that he just left and left the crime scene a mess. Once the rage ended with the murder of his target(s), his thoughts turned only to self-preservation and if he's an unsophisticated killer, it's likely he wouldn't know how to properly clean a crime scene that large anyway.
• Moscow PD is doing a good job of posting responses to the local rumor du jour and acknowledging that they are aware of those items and they have been investigated - i.e. - the dog skinning.
• We have another press conference today and I can't wait to hear what ingenious questions some of these reporters ask.

 

[CityKid]

I think this is very probable! People go off to bed, maybe person crashes on couch, then when everyone falls asleep he commits the crime!

I'm liking this angle. I believe the vacant room on the second floor would have been ideal for someone to crash. If the survivors were already asleep and locked in their rooms, the crasher might not have known they were there.

 

[MTW2011]

Could someone point me to the original picture/article/source that contains the picture of the substance on the exterior of the house? Checked the media thread and could t find it.

TIA

Earliest I could find was this Tweet where im the article linked there was a photo that showed apparent blood dripping on outside of house

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594787699075981323

 

[CityKid]

IMO/MOO

This makes me think of the Lauren Giddings murder. I picture a Stephen McDaniel sort of person, not in looks, more so attitude.

Example: McDaniel was known to the victim peripherally, odd incel type, peeped on her, snuck into her apartment and stole underwear...that kind of perv. He planned to SA her, but was unable to because she fought back.

In a house full of girls, it is hard to say which, but I do have a feeling one was the main target.

There appears to be no evidence of sexual assault, but that doesn't mean the crime wasn't sexually motivated.

Also, not sure this is a 'good theory', but figured I would toss in what is rattling around in my head.

Sidenote: I have read/watched many true crime retellings and it seems common for people to not really register what they are seeing right away. Like people thinking they found a mannequin, when in reality it is a body.

Those roommates were in their home, their safety bubble, invincible at that age anyway. Even though maybe they saw something that would be obvious to a bystander, maybe their brains wouldn't quite accept it right away.

Your first thought might not be 'I guess someone broke in and murdered my 4 friends while we slept a floor below'.

It is a terrifying thought and I feel for them.

Also, depending on the position of the body, they may have only seen part of him as they went up the stairs, and blood might not have been visible from where they stood.

 

[positive]

THank you, Neptune
I did not know Ted Williams was a retired homicide detective, hearing his voice is calming, he has been in the business a long long time.
JMO but from the beginning if the perp was not caught quickly it tells us they were more calculated. Exit the rear door and into the trees then to the west, look at the forested area to the west- avoiding traffic cameras, thousands of acres and an 8-10-12 hour head start.
So they are saying 8 days after they are now planning to search the parking lot behind the house and expand the crime scene. We could tell day 1 that this area was covered with trees and darker and also gives a birds eye view into the 3rd floor bedroom? I’m sorry, if I was a parent I would be beyond livid, that action screams crime scene 101, day 1 or 2, not day 8.

Prayers for the families, friends, students And school and community
JMO

I agree. In my opinion MPD was first on the scene and is not used to murder investigations.
I believe the FBI probably made the call to expand the scene.

 

[sunshineray]

Could someone point me to the original picture/article/source that contains the picture of the substance on the exterior of the house? Checked the media thread and could t find it.

TIA

This is just one that has it

University of Idaho murders: blood seen oozing from house amid reports of previous threat

Months before four University of Idaho students were murdered, a man allegedly menaced a group of students on campus with a knife as new photos emerged of the crime scene.

www.google.com

 

[dotr]

Could someone point me to the original picture/article/source that contains the picture of the substance on the exterior of the house? Checked the media thread and could t find it.

TIA

University of Idaho murders: blood seen oozing from house amid reports of previous threat

Months before four University of Idaho students were murdered, a man allegedly menaced a group of students on campus with a knife as new photos emerged of the crime scene.

www.foxnews.com

 

[greenfrog]

This may be unrelated but definatelty worth the police investigating this more due to unusual activity within the local area.
Please note that I am not local to the area therefore i have used google maps to determine this incident happened 1.5miles away.

The Moscow Report has posted a community alert that two young women left a residence on Blaine Street at around 5:15pm on the 21st November 2022 and proceeded towards their car, where they spotted a man in the front seat who exited and then chased the girls. They ran towards friends and called the police after the man fled. When the police arrived the man could not be found. A description was given but was limited to an overweight white male in a yellow shirt with dirty blonde to brown hair and a scruffy beard.

This could obviously be a theft in progress that went wrong and not related to anything to do with this case but it does highlight more unusual behaviour within the general area.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02iDszxhT6iB9mrJ5qv9KsKCNgxGJ9hAt1ewJwCkmaE7dx67N2eRmNxfZrse2ttDNcl&id=100063596708990

The Moscow Report is not a reputable media source (speaking as a former local).

 

[ACG2x]

Also, depending on the position of the body, they may have only seen part of him as they went up the stairs, and blood might not have been visible from where they stood.

Especially if whichever victim they saw - my assumption is EC as well - was wearing dark clothing which would absorb the blood and not necessarily show it to the naked eye. It might look stained or wet, but you wouldn't see the large red blotches that way. Also, if they were killed in their beds, even if one made it to the hallway, there would be a significant amount of bleeding out and downward onto the bed itself which would absorb it through the sheets, mattress, pad, etc.

The "unconscious person" is a 911 operator code, not necessarily what whoever called said. It's very possible they said something like "my friend is unconscious and there's blood - I don't think he's breathing!" The 911 operator would ask questions and dispatch officers, but it's not up to the caller to officially determine if someone is deceased. You can even say "I think [person] is dead" but they need responding officers to confirm this officially, not a 911 caller.

 

[annalieschen]

There are a lot of questions about the discovery process from the surviving roommates and/or friends. This probably doesn't really help with anything but I plotted a few different routes that they may have taken to discover the bodies including conceivable lines of sight. I included a few different possible orientations the bed could have been in.

Edit: Also, not to get into too many details but I'm wondering if the roommates thought the person was passed out because they were sort of halfway on the bed and the floor or something of that nature. Just a guess of course.

Since there was blood dripping through the floorboards and down the outside wall, I would say Xana's bedroom was the top left one by the kitchen.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Maybe whoever wasn't in their bed didn't die straightaway and crawled to the bedroom door but couldn't reach to open it and collapsed.

If they were wedged behind the door and the roommates could only partially see in they may have thought he was unconscious at first.

 

[AngTxGal]

This appears top be mixed up. If you look at the KBAR website their knives are not the Ramboo stile knife. It appears that the standard KBAR is a WWII style straight blade. Non of their knives have a jagged top side.

The jagged spine of a knife blade near the handle is a thumb grip, used during skinning.

Such a thumb grip would be irrelevant for use in a stab down action. It could be there or not, but it wouldn’t be used. So looking for such a knife with blade spine notches when it was used for stabbing doesn’t make sense.

I think the media grabbed Ka Bar and ran with it, instead of just saying long hunting knife.
Maybe the autopsy shows evidence such notches were present? I have not heard any reasons why they would be specifically looking for a knife with notches.
IMO My dad hand made knives as a hobby for decades- so I‘m full of all kinds of useless knowledge on knives. Lol

It is all sick to imagine

 

[annalieschen]

I'm kinda reluctant to think the red liquid is blood. I believe it would coagulate before it could get outside.


I live in Texas and insects, air and water do get through the siding space down there. However the only time water has come in is when we have torrential downpours. Hundreds of gallons will shoot out from a downspout and it will back up. Homes in Idaho are likely more airtight than here.

It certainly is blood.
You can see in the image how that one part of blood is dripping over the pipe...
so it isn't coming from the pipe but from the space above the pipe.

 

[ACG2x]

Maybe whoever wasn't in their bed didn't die straightaway and crawled to the bedroom door but couldn't reach to open it and collapsed.

If they were wedged behind the door and the roommates could only partially see in they may have thought he was unconscious at first.

Very possible. To me it lends to the theory that MM or KG were the target and the killer murdered XK/EC because that was the first bedroom he came across on the ground floor after entering through the sliding glass door. I lean more towards that he didn't know who slept where and was going to rampage through the home until he found his target and eliminated them.

If he wildly hacked at XK/EC just to get them out of the way, it's possible one didn't die immediately but could only make it to the doorway before blood loss made them collapse and this is who the surviving roommates saw coming up the stairs. The first floor stairs are in the far corner of the home so coming up them you'd be able to see someone sprawled out in the hallway, but may not notice anything else is amiss.

 

[dotr]

Refresher..

Lack of clues about University of Idaho killings fuels fear and rumors

The baffling murders of four students at an off-campus home last week have sown frustration and alarm in the small city of Moscow

www.theguardian.com

Nov 22 2022 rbbm
''There are few clues.

In the hours before their murder, Mogen and Goncalves were at a downtown Moscow bar called the Corner Club between 10pm and 1.30am, then visited a late-night food truck. Video of the two close friends, who attended high school together and both worked at a local Greek restaurant, shows them ordering pasta with no signs of apparent distress. At approximately 1.40am, Mogen and Goncalves received a ride home from a “private party”, a person detectives have investigated and currently do not suspect had anything to do with the pair’s homicide.

During the same timeframe, Chapin and Kernodle were at a party at Sigma Chi, a fraternity house on the University of Idaho campus, until approximately 1.45am, when they returned to the King Road house. Kernodle, Mogen and Goncalves were roommates. Chapin did not live at the house, but appeared to be staying for the night. All of the victims were members of a University of Idaho sorority or fraternity. Their bodies were found on the second and third floors of the house.

“They got stabbed. We got the call. I don’t want people to make assumptions about our kids. It wasn’t drugs and it was definitely not some passion thing between these kids. Someone entered the house,” Stacey Chapin told the Idaho Statesman four days after her son’s body was discovered.

Authorities estimated the time of the murders was between 3 and 4am. Two additional unidentified roommates were asleep during the attack, according to Moscow police''

 

[MntnHiker]

Someone upthread (I apologize that I forget who) mentioned a maintenance worker possibly, and that's an angle I hadn't considered but find possible. Because this was a rental, there would probably be a handyman/maintenance person who would come over to fix things in the house. They would be very familiar with the layout of the house and possibly even who was sleeping where if he's had to fix anything in bedrooms before.

Did a maintenance person come over to fix something previously and had a negative interaction with the housemates for some reason? I'd at least be curious to know the last time a maintenance worker was in the house. MOO

 

[darlinikkisiks]

She seems to be very active on various social media platforms. He does not. You are right, many in the college age group are no longer very active on FB, and some just never got that into it.

We agree there — K was active on IG, and had unfollowed him. Which was potentially more indicative of where things stood with them than what her mom’s take on it was. M and the others still following seemed to demonstrate that there wasn’t a major falling out though, and that it wouldn’t be unusual for M to call J on behalf of K after a night out. It sounds like we’re on the same page.

ETA: Clarify that we agree about Insta activity, not necessary her mom’s opinion of things.

 

[ACG2x]

No real new news about the case, but this FOX News article talked with neighbors who said the home was a "party house" and had numerous people coming and going every night of the week. It said the residents were always respectful and parties didn't get out of control, but it was definitely a social hub of activity.

This says to me that the roommates and their social circles probably had a ton of different people over at any given time, some who them may not have known well. I went to several parties in college through friends of friends of friends and saw a bunch of people I had never met and vice versa. It would make it very easy for a prospective killer to be in the house and learn it's layout without arousing any suspicion.