ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 9

[LaborDayRN]

Who uses a knife? Someone as a preference for killing or someone who can not obtain a gun. Who can not obtain a gun? Minors, People with records, people who can’t afford it. Lets assume the killer had to use a knife. How do you practice using a knife to murder? you could theoretically try it out on woodland creatures. Once that hurdle has been jumped then you can move on to humans. How do you get into a house with a key pad. get binoculars and watch someone type it in. where would you watch from? Look local. Listen to neighbors with strange stories about woodland creatures.

Knives are quieter than guns.

 

[CuriousGeorga]

I’m just thinking, if the killer is a hunter then it wouldn’t be completely abnormal for that person to come home with some blood on their clothing.That could easily be an alibi.

Very true, yikes, an easy explanation for the clothing stains

 

[JurassicParker]

Yeah, but I think one of the reasons a knife was used is because it is quiet.

Clearly, this person didn’t care about being quiet. They could have put a gun to their heads with a pillow as a silencer and no one would have heard a thing. Dead, just like that. This person wanted to inflict pain. They wanted these people to suffer.

 

[Sandvol]

My theory still remains the same days after I originally posted it- this was done by someone the girls knew (either really well OR just very casually in passing). This wasn’t the work of a sophisticated serial killer or efficient murderer trained in the military. This was sloppy and careless, fueled solely by emotions such as jealousy, anger, and pure rage. The crime scene investigators have said the scene was very sloppy with tons of evidence left. The longtime FBI profiler also agrees. None of the facts as we know them line up with a well-prepared and trained serial killer. They instead point towards a more immature individual who was more concerned with exacting revenge and brutality than not potentially getting caught or hurt.

A military trained killer would have killed with precision, not multiple haphazard and angry slashes and stabs to the torso. That many stabs indicates someone who has zero anger/rage control. Military assassins are disciplined and efficient killing machines.

And serial killers almost always have a signature or calling card MO. Most involve luring or tricking victims into close contact with them so that they can abduct and/or torture their victims. Most serial killers aren’t into rage killing houseloads of victims. I’m aware it’s happened before, so it wouldn’t be unheard of. But it’s just incredibly rare. A serial killer could strike any time he wanted to do so. But some vengeful and scorned incel wanting to punish Kaylee might have had no other choice than to murder her that night before she moved back in with her parents and out of state for good.

Maybe I’m just a boring and unimaginative slave to statistics, but I keep going back to the overwhelming percentage of murders being committed by someone acquainted with the victim.

Also, I think there are a few discussion points which others on here seem to find critical, but which I find completely inconsequential. For instance, the whole 911 call/unconscious person debate seems like a big nothing to me. There’s no way the roommates had anything to do with this. And there’s so many ways either they or their friends who made the 911 call could have used the phrase “unconscious”. Maybe it was the 911 operator who paraphrased that. Maybe the 911 operator asked them point blank if the person appeared conscious and they replied no. Maybe they didn’t even get a close look at their deceased roommates at first and just thought one or more were unconscious. There’s no malice or importance to the crime there, at least IMO.

And then there’s the dog. Kaylee’s dog survived. Not a big deal as it relates to the crime. Doesn’t necessarily signify anything at all. Pets survive murders all the time. Some dogs don’t bark at all. Most killers have no interest in killing a dog, especially if it’s just sitting there. If someone targeted one or more of the victims, the dog was not the aim of their rage. The killer murdered the object or objects of his rage, then killed anyone else he encountered who got in his way. Just like the girls downstairs shut up in their rooms, the dog posed no threat to him.

I’ll say lastly that so much seems to be focused on the inconsistencies and confusing statements coming from law enforcement. That really isn’t a surprise for three reasons: a) as investigations develop, theories change, b) law enforcement often says things and lies to confuse, frighten, or comfort the suspects, and c) much of what they’re saying seems confusing to us because we haven’t seen what they’ve seen (if we had walked the crime scene, seen the evidence, and talked to witnesses, a lot of our confusion to their statements and theories would be cleared up). I think it’s unfair to judge law enforcement’s inconsistent and sometimes illogical statements as proof they don’t know what they’re doing or have bungled the case. There is so, so much that not even the families have been told as of now that the police do know. I guarantee that there are very specific reasons they are saying what they’re saying.

However, I do agree with almost everything you've said. Why are people focused on the call to the police or who made the call, or whose phone, <modsnip - OFF LIMITS>

 

[Friday Fan]

The Moscow Police have organized a link to updates on the case as well, the site has lots of info about the department and resources there. King Street Homicide | Moscow, ID

This is excellent!!!!

 

[femto]

Is it a fact that there were no bloody prints? How could the public know that? How do you know that he wasn't a bloody mess?

Nothing we've seen so far from the news footage show obvious blood prints which would imply the killer washed in some way. I mean you can't really leave a crime scene like that without leaving something on your way out, if you didn't bother to clean up.

 

[drmrgrl]

The floors are wood according to the Zillow listing last updated on 2/18/2020

Now that is creepy. Wood floors creak. I wonder if the intruder/killer removed his shoes upon entering the house….

 

[lello2]

Some things that have occurred to me that may or may not be helpful: (JMO)

We know the rough timeframe in which the killings took place but not necessarily how long the perp was present at the house. I don’t know (and apologies for this image) - how long it would have taken to stab 4 people to death/incapacitation. If there was little resistance then I imagine this was quite quick - maybe a little longer for those who fought back, but it must have been quick enough to not raise the alarm substantially (especially with possibly two people in each room). There is a chance that the perp then was able to do things to one of the victims, which would explain why LE have stated they think it was targeted (e.g. notes or particular mutilation). They have said the upstairs floors were worse. Alternatively this time could have been used to clean self up a bit (e.g. swap shoes to not leave footprints). I think ultimately this theory depends on what order everything happened in and motive and unfortunately we don’t have that information but it’s a question I hadn’t seen raised - ie whether perp left straight away after “rage” or was more calm and collected and stayed in house for longer after, maybe mistakenly not realising there were two additional roommates.

Secondly - and apologies for bringing it up again but IF that is blood on the outside of the house, is there a chance it could have also permeated the floor of the bedroom / ceiling of the first floor as well? Please correct me if not as I know some discussion on whether it was laminate floor but that could offer another reason to why the roommates were alerted to some danger but possibly didn’t know the full extent and so didn’t leave their locked room / called friends first out of fear for their own safety. Once the friends arrived at the house they confirmed the scene and that’s when LE were called. Again I’m not too sure on this as conscious the report is that they called friends because they “believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up" - which might make more sense with a locked door. If there was a locked door IMO I think this lends itself more to a killer that was calm and collected and not in a fit of rage.

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 8

 

[mysteryfan96]

I don't think they used the word "sloppy." I think they said "messy." Yes, tons of evidence. Maybe not the perp's evidence. Maybe only the victims' evidence.

Veteran FBI Profiler Jim Clemente called the killer “sloppy”. Combine that with the message given to the families about the scene being messy with a lot of evidence left behind and it paints a definite picture of a very poorly-committed series of murders.

 

[Blue_Painting]

This is excellent!!!!

The time lapse for where Ethan and Xana went after the party has yet to be addressed by LE. I wonder if it's relevant?

 

[hopewell]

I just don't think the FBI's BAU would've been called in if this wasn't a bizarre, serial killer-esque crime scene. Likewise, they tend to only come out when patterns emerge.

I just think this is an actual monster we are dealing with here, and a meticulous one at that. Not a friend. Not an acquaintance. Not an aggrieved ex-lover. Not a rejected incel. Not a drug deal gone wrong. "Messy" or "sloppy" doesn't necessarily mean he didn't protect his own interests throughout - just that the crime scene was messy and sloppy. I wouldn't be surprised if we later find out that there were messages and they were posed in some way.

My opinion.

 

[Cinque à Sept]

MOO - I live and work in a college town. If the girls worked in a "college bar" like the Mad Greek, it doesn't surprise me they'd hang out in the local dive bar. They probably got sick of how college-age patrons behaved and felt more comfortable in their downtime at a locals bar. That's how it is where I live, anyway. All speculation.

Probably most people who have ever been of legal drinking age at U of I have been in the Corner Club at least one time. The Club can also be classified as a "college bar."

If you wanted a real dive in (near) Moscow try Schermann's Slurp 'n Burp or the Plantation. "The Burp" was frequented by farmers, truckers, foresters, college kids and ne'er do wells. It had a toughest man in the bar chair by the door. Great fries (probably never changed the grease. You HAD to wash your clothes as soon as you got home or the next day.

 

[bonniejeanne17]

My theory still remains the same days after I originally posted it- this was done by someone the girls knew (either really well OR just very casually in passing). This wasn’t the work of a sophisticated serial killer or efficient murderer trained in the military. This was sloppy and careless, fueled solely by emotions such as jealousy, anger, and pure rage. The crime scene investigators have said the scene was very sloppy with tons of evidence left. The longtime FBI profiler also agrees. None of the facts as we know them line up with a well-prepared and trained serial killer. They instead point towards a more immature individual who was more concerned with exacting revenge and brutality than not potentially getting caught or hurt.

A military trained killer would have killed with precision, not multiple haphazard and angry slashes and stabs to the torso. That many stabs indicates someone who has zero anger/rage control. Military assassins are disciplined and efficient killing machines.

And serial killers almost always have a signature or calling card MO. Most involve luring or tricking victims into close contact with them so that they can abduct and/or torture their victims. Most serial killers aren’t into rage killing houseloads of victims. I’m aware it’s happened before, so it wouldn’t be unheard of. But it’s just incredibly rare. A serial killer could strike any time he wanted to do so. But some vengeful and scorned incel wanting to punish Kaylee might have had no other choice than to murder her that night before she moved back in with her parents and out of state for good.

Maybe I’m just a boring and unimaginative slave to statistics, but I keep going back to the overwhelming percentage of murders being committed by someone acquainted with the victim.

Also, I think there are a few discussion points which others on here seem to find critical, but which I find completely inconsequential. For instance, the whole 911 call/unconscious person debate seems like a big nothing to me. There’s no way the roommates had anything to do with this. And there’s so many ways either they or their friends who made the 911 call could have used the phrase “unconscious”. Maybe it was the 911 operator who paraphrased that. Maybe the 911 operator asked them point blank if the person appeared conscious and they replied no. Maybe they didn’t even get a close look at their deceased roommates at first and just thought one or more were unconscious. There’s no malice or importance to the crime there, at least IMO.

And then there’s the dog. Kaylee’s dog survived. Not a big deal as it relates to the crime. Doesn’t necessarily signify anything at all. Pets survive murders all the time. Some dogs don’t bark at all. Most killers have no interest in killing a dog, especially if it’s just sitting there. If someone targeted one or more of the victims, the dog was not the aim of their rage. The killer murdered the object or objects of his rage, then killed anyone else he encountered who got in his way. Just like the girls downstairs shut up in their rooms, the dog posed no threat to him.

I’ll say lastly that so much seems to be focused on the inconsistencies and confusing statements coming from law enforcement. That really isn’t a surprise for three reasons: a) as investigations develop, theories change, b) law enforcement often says things and lies to confuse, frighten, or comfort the suspects, and c) much of what they’re saying seems confusing to us because we haven’t seen what they’ve seen (if we had walked the crime scene, seen the evidence, and talked to witnesses, a lot of our confusion to their statements and theories would be cleared up). I think it’s unfair to judge law enforcement’s inconsistent and sometimes illogical statements as proof they don’t know what they’re doing or have bungled the case. There is so, so much that not even the families have been told as of now that the police do know. I guarantee that there are very specific reasons they are saying what they’re saying.

Good summary of possibilities.

I might add, this case already has more red herrings than a smorgasbord in Stockholm.

 

[LAHOLLA]

Can’t quote the post re: the tattoo on the surviving roommate. (Still new here)
But from MM’s Instagram, it looks like she also had the same wing tattoo in the same spot. It makes sense to me. They probably feel pretty helpless and this is a way to grieve.

Agreed. Makes me sad to see so much judgment directed towards these kids.

 

[Friday Fan]

I think 2 is very likely since police already confirmed in the Nov 20th update that the 911 operator spoke to multiple people in the call

I called 911 a few years back. I would hate to see a transcript or interpretation of that call.

• 
  Lightening struck a home nearby.
• 
  Home was on fire.
• 
  Flames were shooting up all over the place.
• 
  No firetruck in sight.
  
  
• I did not know the address of the home. --Boy oh boy!!! It turned into a big ordeal, and I told them go to xxxx...but they wanted nothing to do with it.

(Hysterical woman calls about fire. Location unknown.)

 

[HMSHood]

I still think the killer is an injustice collector or grudge hoarder. He likely had deep seated resentment issues. He is probably known for being a constant complainer and not pleasant to be around. His anger boiled over after something set him off. He probably would be most like Elliot Rodger, Eric Harris, Patrick Sherrill, Richard Wade Farley, or Salvador Ramos. Sherrill and Farley had history of stalking people. Rodger stabbed 3 of his victims to death.

 

[pamelado2]

No. I assume this is bad reporting and should be morning after the attack.

"On the night of the attack, officers located a dog at the residence that was unharmed. Police turned the dog over to Animal Services and it was later released to a responsible party."

University of Idaho murders: Here's what we know

Police revealed slightly more information on Sunday during a press conference about the 911 caller and affirmed the whereabouts of the victims that night.

www.ktvb.com

If the attack took place at 3am the night of the attack sounds right to me. It would mean after 6pm that same day, right?

 

[Blue_Painting]

Nothing we've seen so far from the news footage show obvious blood prints which would imply the killer washed in some way. I mean you can't really leave a crime scene like that without leaving something on your way out, if you didn't bother to clean up.

Right, but that wouldn't necessarily be something that we could see. Blood on the bottom of a shoe would leave a print for a few steps, sure. There were leaves, gravel, etc.. They may exist, but without being close, we can't see them. imo

 

[drmrgrl]

Is Ka-Bar kind of a generic knife term for knife enthusiasts? I have no idea. Kind of like saying Coke (the beverage) in the South - it's kind of all encompassing.

Ka-Bar is the specific name brand of the knife. Ka-Bar is the company that manufactures the knife

 

[Jazz]

IMO, I think pd has a suspect in mind and is waiting on dna testing to come back from lab. They want to make sure charges stick.