ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

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I agree. There is a huge need to clear it up.

The reporter had even started the conversation by asking if there was anything that they felt needed to be cleared up. I get that they wouldn't want that to point at the father, but not at the price of passing off a potential lead, even if it did possibly implicate him. If I was the parent and didn't know what happened, I'd be eager to follow any plausible lead. I would have wanted the store clerk to work with police immediately to get a sketch out quickly of the man who was seen with the child to see if someone might come forward to say it was themselves and another child, before I'd clear that sighting up. I'd want to know how the man had paid and if it was possible to get fingerprints (had he touched something that doesn't get handled much by others), etc.
 
Someone straighten me out please. Dad and Junior go to the store 10 miles away (correct?), what was the purpose for that trip? This is the same trip where the candy bar was purchased?

If it was me - and I had just arrived that day to camp, I don't think I'd want to drive 40 minutes back to a store to get ________. I'd be more interested in setting up camp and getting organised.

Then Dad left a second time to place the 911 call?

I either need coffee or sleep! TIA for the help getting my facts straight.
 
The reporter had even started the conversation by asking if there was anything that they felt needed to be cleared up. I get that they wouldn't want that to point at the father, but not at the price of passing off a potential lead, even if it did possibly implicate him. If I was the parent and didn't know what happened, I'd be eager to follow any plausible lead. I would have wanted the store clerk to work with police immediately to get a sketch out quickly of the man who was seen with the child to see if someone might come forward to say it was themselves and another child, before I'd clear that sighting up. I'd want to know how the man had paid and if it was possible to get fingerprints (had he touched something that doesn't get handled much by others), etc.

I'm a huge fan of LE and if they say the parents aren't suspects they certainly have a reason for doing so. My gosh, this is the first case when LE has even mentioned social media. It is all up in the air.
 
I haven't read all the posts yet, so forgive me if this was a theory. I've read that the blanket was in the truck. I've heard the father mention that they left without their son when it was his nap time. What if the child was in the truck for his nap (a possible reason why the blanket was there)?

Dad stated in the unedited interview that when he and DeOrr's mom left to go exploring; DeOrr was playing with his grandpa, he was getting ready for a nap, and he was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire.
 
I'm a huge fan of LE and if they say the parents aren't suspects they certainly have a reason for doing so. My gosh, this is the first case when LE has even mentioned social media. It is all up in the air.

I wonder if the man from the store sighting is considered a person of interest by the LE. If not, why not?
 
I'm a huge fan of LE and if they say the parents aren't suspects they certainly have a reason for doing so. My gosh, this is the first case when LE has even mentioned social media. It is all up in the air.

It's becoming more common for LE to address rumors and speculation in social media. IIRC Sheriff Davis of the Noah Thomas case in Virginia said a lot of the same things during the initial days of Noah Thomas' disappearance: no suspects, don't believe and feed into what's being said on social media and elsewhere, the parents are 100% cooperative, they are distraught, abduction is a possibility, etc. Though in the Noah Thomas investigation they had already determined the parents had lied and likely already had their suspects, that doesn't mean it's the same situation here; but I wholeheartedly agree with your first sentence!!
 
Just to clarify....
Store is 40 minutes not 40 miles away.

I believe it is 10 long miles on a bumpy dirt road which maps estimated would take 40 minutes.

According to Dad they went down to the store "as a family" earlier that same day. He also stated they had not left the campground since 1 pm until quarter to/after (?) 4 pm. So how does that clear up a possible 6 pm sighting? Would Dad have had any way outta there unnoticed between 5:20 - 6:40?

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I wish we had the statement from the shopkeeper about the 6 pm sighting. Once they were told that the child had been there at noon with his dad, did they say ' Oh, OK, maybe it was noon and not 6 pm?' :waitasec:
 
Not the first LE has mentioned social media.... It is just the first time you followed a traumatic incident that did :) ((HUGS))
I'm a huge fan of LE and if they say the parents aren't suspects they certainly have a reason for doing so. My gosh, this is the first case when LE has even mentioned social media. It is all up in the air.
 
Sillybilly, you lost me as to what your point is. :confused: I'm tired today so are you saying something obvious and I'm missing it? My point was the sheriff said the cremains (learned a new word here) could be what the dogs are picking up rather than Deorr. That implies to me these dogs aren't trained in that sub specialty so the cremains could confuse them.

I just find it highly unusual that they would bring in cadaver dogs that specialized in the detection of cremated remains. IOW, a regular cadaver dog searching specifically for human remains as they are trained to do would not be confused by cremains any more than they would be confused by a hunk of cheese or the scent of a sock belonging to a hobo. There's a whole world out there that a regularly trained cadaver dog will ignore in its quest for the scent of a deceased person.

Hope that makes sense.
 
In the unedited video there was off camera mention of the need to discuss the rumors about the "EMT bag" (that's what it sounded like to me). After finding out the occupation of the mom, her statement about not wanting things to get twisted, now makes sense. FB shows her in the CNA occupation.
 
Dad stated in the unedited interview that when he and DeOrr's mom left to go exploring; DeOrr was playing with his grandpa, he was getting ready for a nap, and he was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire.

The parents are emphatic that DeOrr has to have his blanket with him at all times. One good point made earlier by a poster is that there are pictures of DeOrr without his blanket, cup, etc. so he probably just used it at nap/bed time. That made sense. So why would the parents go for a walk and leave DeOrr's blanket in the truck if he was getting ready for a nap? Wouldn't he need/want it, especially in a strange surrounding? jmo
 
It's becoming more common for LE to address rumors and speculation in social media. IIRC Sheriff Davis of the Noah Thomas case in Virginia said a lot of the same things during the initial days of Noah Thomas' disappearance: no suspects, don't believe and feed into what's being said on social media and elsewhere, the parents are 100% cooperative, they are distraught, abduction is a possibility, etc. Though in the Noah Thomas investigation they had already determined the parents had lied and likely already had their suspects, that doesn't mean it's the same situation here; but I wholeheartedly agree with your first sentence!!

Glad you brought this up. The Sheriff in the Noah Thomas case was quite vocal about social media and not very nice about it at times lol. jmo
 
I haven't read all the posts yet, so forgive me if this was a theory. I've read that the blanket was in the truck. I've heard the father mention that they left without their son when it was his nap time. What if the child was in the truck for his nap (a possible reason why the blanket was there)?


Was the campsite already set up when the parents went for a walk?

Where was DeOrr going to take a nap? In a tent - on a cot by grandpa? In the truck?

IFFFF DeOrr was going to nap in the truck, how far was truck parked from campsite? Could he have gotten out of the truck on the farthest side out of sight of grandpa? (I know its been said that he was there and grandpa looked away and he was gone, but still thinking of possible scenarios)
 
While sitting here this morning trying to pry my eyes open with some Folgers coffee, I thought I would sit here and come up with some possible scenarios on what may have happened to this little boy and where he could be.

I'm going to stay away from the wild animal theory and the abduction theories. First of all, predator type animals don't usually hang around areas with a noisy human presence. Secondly, the roads in and out of there are gravel. Nobody "sneaks" around on gravel roads, you can usually hear a vehicle coming down one of them for a 1/4 mile before you see it. The family reported not seeing or hearing any other vehicles during this event, nor did they see anyone walking or hiking near their camp.

Now.....where did he go ? He definitely walked off for a ways during the timespan that his parents were off exploring, most likely out of earshot, but not necessarily. His parents stressed that he was "almost" three, which means he's pretty mobile to me and can move at a pretty good rate if he wanted to. At three years old, he would still be pretty small and close to the ground, so what does that leave us with ?

A) He got up under some shrubbery or bushes and got himself snakebit. Rattlesnake, water moccasin, coral snake being the most likely culprits. The poison could have taken effect within minutes in a little guy that size, depending on where the bite occurred.

B) He found the home or den of a burrowing animal, tried to crawl down inside of it and got himself wedged and stuck underground or partially underground.

C) He tried to climb up or down some kind of cliff or embankment, fell and knocked himself unconscious, maybe fatally. A fall from any height could prove to be fatal, depending on how one landed. People have died falling off of step ladders.

D) He tried to take a shortcut through some thick shrubbery or bushes, and got his foot wedged or stuck to where he became immobile. The problem with this theory is that he would still be able to cry for help, unless of course he somehow got turned upside down or was impaled in some way by the branches.

E) He climbed up a tree and.........see (D) ....... Searchers, look UP !

F) He went down by the creek and fell in headfirst. (Yeah, yeah....I know.....SEARCH IT AGAIN.)
The entire length of the creek needs to be searched, he could be wedged under something such
as a large rock or a submerged log. He could be trapped in an underwater void or wallowed out pocket not visible from the surface.

G.) He wandered off down to the reservoir........ enough said.

H) He started walking down the same gravel road they came in on, got well out of earshot, wandered off out into the surrounding foliage, maybe he saw some rocks he wanted to climb, then .......(See A thru E above.)


I think he is still in the general area, but there is a good chance he may have gotten further away than they are anticipating. The clothes he was wearing are going to be a hinderance because he will easily blend in with the surrounding terrain and may not be recognizable as a human even from a short distance, such as 20-30 yards. I think the highest likelihood is that he crawled down UNDER something and became wedged or stuck, possibly even a void or crevice between two rocks. His cries for help would not be heard if he was headfirst down in a hole, nor would he be visible to searchers. If it was a sudden or catastrophic event, there may have been no cries for help.

Keep searching, he's right there somewhere. I'll keep my cynicism to a minimum, but I remember a few quotes in the media lately that sounded something like this, "Well, we searched that area three or four times already.....I don't know how we could have missed him"...........uh-huh.
 
I just find it highly unusual that they would bring in cadaver dogs that specialized in the detection of cremated remains. IOW, a regular cadaver dog searching specifically for human remains as they are trained to do would not be confused by cremains any more than they would be confused by a hunk of cheese or the scent of a sock belonging to a hobo. There's a whole world out there that a regularly trained cadaver dog will ignore in its quest for the scent of a deceased person.

Hope that makes sense.

I think I understand....

I imagine the scent of cremains would be quite different from the scent of a decomposing body...

Cremains would have additional scents of (possibly) chemicals/fire igniting/etc. that are involved in the procedural cremation of humans..

Whereas... The scent of a "naturally occurring" decomposing body would not have those same additional "qualities" (for lack of a better word)...

Therefore... Cadaver dogs would not be alerted to cremains....

All... JMO...
 
In the unedited video there was off camera mention of the need to discuss the rumors about the "EMT bag" (that's what it sounded like to me). After finding out the occupation of the mom, her statement about not wanting things to get twisted, now makes sense. FB shows her in the CNA occupation.

We discussed this before and it was brought up that the person off camera might have said "Empty bag" not "EMT bag".
 
I am a little concerned that the Dad took the baby to the store 40 miles from the campground!! That is a long drive when you are in camping areas. My experience with camping is that a 40 mile drive to a store is way too far. You would be gone for two hours - not something you do when you are trying to get away and enjoy the outdoors. Also, even though the person at the store had the time so far off - it bothers me that the child was described as "bawling and very grubby looking" Would you leave the rest of the fam and take off on a two hour jaunt? Must have wanted something awfully badly to do that.

I have had the opposite experiences. Some people (and sometimes members of generations younger than I am) will get to a beautiful campground and the first thing they need to do is to go find a store and purchase cigarettes or soda/soft drinks and chips, etc. - especially if no one thought to buy snacks ahead of time. This is especially true of individuals who come for larger towns or cities and are not necessarily used to camping or being outdoors in places where stores are miles away.
 
The parents are emphatic that DeOrr has to have his blanket with him at all times. One good point made earlier by a poster is that there are pictures of DeOrr without his blanket, cup, etc. so he probably just used it at nap/bed time. That made sense. So why would the parents go for a walk and leave DeOrr's blanket in the truck if he was getting ready for a nap? Wouldn't he need/want it, especially in a strange surrounding? jmo

I understand your confusion regarding the situations of the the blanket/truck/etc...

as a camper myself (though I recognize everyone that camps has different practices) , we usually set up camp upon arrival to the campsite... Preparing tent/camper/ eating supplies and site for a base camp, so to speak...

After these preparations have been made... Then we may engage in some exploring of the areas, etc...

And as a camper... I am curious as to what was the camp set up for this family and friend... And wonder why there have not been mention and/or pictures of the "accommodations"...

It would seem that having a toddler along on the trip... The setting up of the accommodations would take a precedence since the needs needs of a child for naps/meals/etc. are more crucial than for adults...

all... JMO...
 
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