ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

[Elainera]

Are they still searching the reservoir today?

I'm kind of surprised that they haven't started re-searching the creek. Like someone above said - Occam's razor - lion or creek. I totally agree with that.

 

[Cardinal47]

Well I just watched the uncut video of the parents interview and it broke my heart. These two people want nothing but their son. We can pick apart how they looked, how they said things and what they said but at the end of that interview they both cried and I cried with them. I agree with the sheriff. These two parents are innocent and this little boy needs to be found.

I did find it interesting when the father talked about the road he wasn't aware of that they could not see but looked down on the campsite. I all along thought he was in the water but now I am leaning toward an abduction.

[video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

 

[Annie1004]

Jj

I know several 72-year-olds I would let babysit. My father died suddenly at 72, but only months before that he'd been camping and fishing with the family. It's not really all that old, actually. Paul McCartney, Judge Judy, and America's Vice President are all 72, for instance.

And don't forget Mick Jagger! That guy can out dance any 20-year-old!

My dad was downhill skiing at 70; played tennis; ran; swam; hiked; rode his bicycle to work every day. Unfortunately, Parkinson's hit him at 73, and he died a year later. Seemed so unfair for such a fit man.

 

[Roselvr]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. I'm just getting caught up on the thread. Here are some thoughts based on my own mix of experience and opinion.

These are all just my thoughts so take them for what they are worth.

6. Abduction theory-I want to be careful how I say this out of respect for forum rules and the parents. I don't believe there was a stranger abduction. I also don't believe the parents hurt their child, but someone may have.

7. The water-Like many here, I think there is still a good chance that Little DeOrr is in the water. I also think that his flatland walking skills, or lack of, may have gotten too much focus and was an exaggerated statement by a parent that doesn't want to believe he could have moved fast enough to get to any body of water. I believe the statement was akin to his, "I don't know what day today is" comment.

8. The helicopter-There had been concern about Dad's preoccupation with the helicopter and it's equipment. The reason I think he was so impressed is because it's super impressive! The helicopter was Two Bear Air. That helicopter has been able to find many people in the couple of years its been used. It is also occasionally used to survey grizzly bear dens. There is amazing video footage of a grizzly den that they checked out and the capability of the heat sensitive cameras is amazing. This isn't your typical, "fly over the scene with a helicopter and hope to get lucky spotting something," helicopter search. This bird is equipped specifically for finding and accessing people in some of the most challenging terrain in the world. I believe that if that little boy was toddling around when the helicopter was there, they would have found him. Because of the capabilities of this helicopter and its equipment and crew and all of the other information we've seen, I believe that if this boy is still there, he's either under the water or in the ground. I hate to say that but that's my opinion.

Welcome to WS!
I have a 23mo old grandson that was very late walking; still has days where he falls but had someone turned their back; he would be gone in the blink of an eye. I'd be surprised if DeOrr walked as bad as parents say at 2 1/2.

I think he took off straight for the water; I don't think it took that long for him to run there then not be able to get out. Breaks my heart. Praying they find him

 

[Cardinal47]

Because I enjoy math problems...(okay... Don't ask)...

I was,checking the math...

4/10ths of a mile is 40% of a mile

There are 5,280 feet in a mile...

40 % of 5,280 feet = 5,280 X .40 = 2,112.00 feet...

there are 100 yards (or 300 feet) in a football field...

therefore... 2,112 feet divided by 300 = Just a little over 7 football fields...(7 Remainder 12 feet, to be exact...)

HTH... :seeya:

So it could take 5 or 6 hours like the man said!

 

[katydid23]

Well I just watched the uncut video of the parents interview and it broke my heart. These two people want nothing but their son. We can pick apart how they looked, how they said things and what they said but at the end of that interview they both cried and I cried with them. I agree with the sheriff. These two parents are innocent and this little boy needs to be found.

I did find it interesting when the father talked about the road he wasn't aware of that they could not see but looked down on the campsite. I all along thought he was in the water but now I am leaning toward an abduction.

[video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

The problem with the abduction scenario, imo, is the very small window of opportunity. They said it was a matter of 4 to 10 minutes. And that is a very small campground. No one has mentioned seeing any other vehicles or campers. How did a car come by without being seen or heard in that small window of time?

 

[StormyNights]

In RE to him not being able to walk with out falling down....I really think they are just using this expression to say he is a clumsy little toddler that falls down a lot. My own son was the same way. He was just so clumsy, he could trip over air when he was little! I don't think they meant for it to be taken literally. Just MOO

 

[Lizzzard]

That is why I don't really think it's a habituated bear, but a lion, otherwise I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. Should it turn out to be a predator I assume it took off with him, especially once all the activity started with the search. I think the infrared helicopter wasn't sent in till the 15th. Even if it was sent up just a few hours later on the day he went missing he'd either be consumed by then (no body for infrared to pick up) and/or the animal could be miles and miles away.

Using the principle of Occam's Razor I think he's in the water, but a lion attack is my next close guess. Water or lion are the only two things I can think of that explain his quick and complete disappearance (with the facts we have currently).

Fair enough.

I agree that the mostly likely scenario is still one of the bodies of water. My second guess is that he is buried, but if he is, I don't believe it was done by an animal (at least not of the four-legged variety).

I am just a little confused about where the idea came from that there would be zero evidence if a lion was involved. Yes, lions can kill rather cleanly, and yes, they will often drag their prey a short distance for more cover, but they don't typically move it miles, and while studies have shown that they will consume some bones, there is usually still plenty of evidence left behind. They also don't bury it in the normal way you would imagine something being buried. They don't dig a hole, place their kill in and then cover it. By burying, they simply kick brush, dirt and leaves on top to obscure it. They usually return to the site and stay in the area to feed for as long as it lasts or stays good. In the event the animal was scared off by the search activity, as it likely would have been, the remaining evidence of what had occurred would certainly be found. A simple Google image search of what mountain lion kills actually look like supports this idea. And the images you will see are probably what was left by an unhurried cat. While the kill is rather clean, and while they may relocate it, the process when they begin to consume it is quite gruesome and because we are talking about a little boy, I'll skip the details but it's easy to find the information. A cat that killed a person, even a child, would leave plenty behind if it was interrupted by a quickly occurring search or it would have been seen at least momentarily as it weighed the risk of trying to defend it's kill.

I don't want to sound like a know-it-all and everyone is entitled to their opinion (of course) but this is a subject I feel fairly knowledgeable about.

FWIW, I think I saw a photo of the Two Bear helicopter searching on the 12th. Also, dead bodies can be detected by IR under various conditions. I'll spare those details as well.

 

[Cardinal47]

The problem with the abduction scenario, imo, is the very small window of opportunity. They said it was a matter of 4 to 10 minutes. And that is a very small campground. No one has mentioned seeing any other vehicles or campers. How did a car come by without being seen or heard in that small window of time?

I am not sure but I know children are taken in the blink of an eye. I know it seems strange out there in the great outdoors for somebody to take a child but say the little guy wandered for 20 minutes and somebody was watching. Down in the creek area one could hide and snatch a child quite quickly.

Grandpa was probably doing camp things and not paying attention because he thought the little guy was with his parents.

I don't know how it happened it's just my most recent thought of what could have happened to him.

Also when Deorr's father mentioned the road where somebody could watch but not be watched that kind of caught my attention too.

Was somebody bad watching and opportunity knocked?

MOO

 

[Elainera]

In RE to him not being able to walk with out falling down....I really think they are just using this expression to say he is a clumsy little toddler that falls down a lot. My own son was the same way. He was just so clumsy, he could trip over air when he was little! I don't think they meant for it to be taken literally. Just MOO

I just watched Nancy Grace again. There, a doctor actually said that it would take him 5-6 hours to get from campsite to reservoir because of the terrain. I know that some here have earlier said he must have misspoken and probably meant 5-6 minutes, but now in light of what the grandfather said, I'm thinking, maybe he does have some difficulty walking? I mean, 5-6 hours for less than half a mile, is that the norm for a child this age? It sounds incredibly slow to me.

So, now I'm thinking, if they do find him in the reservoir, it's very unlikely he got there by himself because they started searching not long after he disappeared and would have caught up with him.

Unless, he did not go on the path but went through the trees, hidden from view, and came out - hours later - at the reservoir, and then, maybe thirsty now, went into the water. And the searchers just missed him.


The creek - in the video are a couple of scenes showing the creek. To my eye it looks like pretty fast moving water, the water is foaming and splashing. I REALLY hope they'd search it again and go further downstream!


Also, another snippet of info I got from the NG video is that Deorr had a small "Hot Wheels truck" in his pocket. Not that it matters much because it wasn't found, just like his shoes or jacket or anything else hasn't been found. Still, I wanted to mention it here because I hadn't heard about it yet (but I might have overlooked this in earlier posts).


http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-search-featured-on-nancy-grace/

 

[StormyNights]

I just watched Nancy Grace again. There, a doctor actually said that it would take him 5-6 hours to get from campsite to reservoir because of the terrain. I know that some here have earlier said he must have misspoken and probably meant 5-6 minutes, but now in light of what the grandfather said, I'm thinking, maybe he does have some difficulty walking? I mean, 5-6 hours for less than half a mile, is that the norm for a child this age? It sounds incredibly slow to me.

So, now I'm thinking, if they do find him in the reservoir, it's very unlikely he got there by himself because they started searching not long after he disappeared and would have caught up with him.

Unless, he did not go on the path but went through the trees, hidden from view, and came out - hours later - at the reservoir, and then, maybe thirsty now, went into the water. And the searchers just missed him.


The creek - in the video are a couple of scenes showing the creek. For my eye it looks like pretty fast moving water, the water is foaming and splashing. I REALLY hope they'd search it again and go further downstream!


Also, another snippet of info I got from the NG video is that Deorr had a small "Hot Wheels truck" in his pocket. Not that it matters much because it wasn't found, just like his shoes or jacket or anything else hasn't been found. Still, I wanted to mention it here because I hadn't heard about it yet (but I might have overlooked this in earlier posts).


http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-search-featured-on-nancy-grace/

I can only really answer one question and it's just from experience from having 3 kids myself. I don't think it would take that long to walk that distance for a 2 year old. Even with a rough up-hill terrain. I just can't see it. Maybe if the child has some sort of physical limitations of some kind but we have not heard anything about it. The parents said that he moves fast but in the same sentence said that he can't walk with out falling. Again, I take this to mean he is just a clumsy tot. In my own experience it's not uncommon for a toddler to fall when toddling about. I also agree with you when you say you hope they search that water again. I just have a gut feeling that is where he is. I know abduction is on the table and of course it would be foolish to completely rule that out, but it just seems so very unlikely in this particular situation. They are in a place with little to no people around. If he was kidnapped, the kidnapper sure fell on some kind of crazy luck to come across a toddling baby boy making an escape from camp. That just seems like a one in a billion chance to me. I hope they find him....no matter what has happened to him. I feel for his family.

All is MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

This 4-minute window is leading me right back to a mountain lion. Aside from tumbling down into a stream, I just don't see any other explanation. Well, aside from this mysterious friend, but still....4 minutes to do whatever and successfully hide a body? I can't see that as a logical possibility. I'm sticking with the stream or a lion.

Every morning I eagerly come here first thing and am crestfallen when the little fella is still not found.

Let's say it was 4-minutes, that doesn't mean that the boy would be found within his 4-minute walking distance because the adult didn't know which way he went. They could have been searching in the completely opposite directions as the boy. Ykwim?

 

[white rabbit]

if the parents believe he was abducted, why do they refuse to leave the campsite?

 

[giagreen]

if the parents believe he was abducted, why do they refuse to leave the campsite?

Because that'd mean going home with out him. As a mother to a two year old boy I couldn't bring myself to leave either.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

omg this gives me ugly flashbacks to high school math exams

please don't ever do this to me again

:gaah:

:silly:

I'm sorry... Please forgive me...:blowkiss:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

LOL I realized my mistake and deleted my post. You are right. And I also enjoy math problems. Must have been a senior moment.

I am surprised I even finished the problem without getting distracted...(like I often do! :blushing

Squirrel!

Tee! Hee!

 

[white rabbit]

we all have kids, we all have similar and differing situations. not one of ours compares to theirs.

if the father is convinced (as he's stated) the child is no longer at the site, again, why are they refusing to leave?

 

[jmcgladr]

we all have kids, we all have similar and differing situations. not one of ours compares to theirs.

if the father is convinced (as he's stated) the child is no longer at the site, again, why are they refusing to leave?

People's psychology is complicated. I suspect that one one hand, DK Sr. WANTS to believe that DK Jr. was abducted because it might mean he is still alive. But on the other hand, there is probably some logical part of his mind saying that an abduction is a far less likely scenario than DK Jr. being lost in the woods or having drowned in the water. Just my 2 cents.

 

[wendybtn]

I don't know how they got to 4 minutes, but I think they are mistaken. Based on the way the campsite is described, it seems highly unlikely he could have gotten far enough out of sight that they couldn't find him when they started looking. Unless maybe there's some type of hole he fell in? Surely they would have discovered a hole by now, though.

Just to be clear I'm not implying anyone with him did anything to him; I'm stating that I think their timeline is flawed.

The elder Kunz quoted here was not on the camping trip, so anything he says is his opinion, not a fact.

 

[katydid23]

Let's say it was 4-minutes, that doesn't mean that the boy would be found within his 4-minute walking distance because the adult didn't know which way he went. They could have been searching in the completely opposite directions as the boy. Ykwim?

But they had 4 adults searching. That means they could fan out in 4 directions. I feel that he could have been caught up with if he tried walking half a mile to the reservoir. I bet he fell into the creek. That is the only thing that makes sense, in terms of him not being seen when they searched. JMO