ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[ILOKAL]

Did I say old? I said elderly man ...I say 70 is elderly, its surely not a young spring chicken. Matter of opinion. My mother is 72 in great shape and no oxygen. Could she keep up with my daughters kids on a camp out? I doubt it but she might surprise me.

Most of our friends are in their late 60's to mid 70's who still camp, often with their young grandchildren or great-grandchildren and often for expended periods of time. They actually watch over and take care of the kids better than the parents do.

 

[SweetT]

Most of our friends are in their late 60's to mid 70's who still camp, often with their young grandchildren or great-grandchildren and often for expended periods of time. They actually watch over and take care of the kids better than the parents do.

LOL I believe that. One of our dear friends is 72 now himself and up until about 2 yrs ago he was hiking the mountains, spending the nights out etc. Very active man. I do not know enough about Deorrs GGP to know what shape he is in, but he is on oxygen and at one time not a POI not sure the term that was used? Due to his health, so Im guessing he may not be in very good health.

 

[starfire]

I agree that there are some 76 year olds who might be in great enough shape to be appropriate babysitters for a 2 year old in the wilderness near a creek. Since the GGF has health issues <modsnip>, I am guessing his ability to chase after a toddler might be quite limited.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Good question.

I assume that this means that Mom & Dad are within GGPA line of sight,...at least at some point. If they remain within GGPA line of sight, wouldn't he know that Deorr was not with them? Wouldn't GGPA then say, I saw DJ with his parents?

GGPA can't know If DJ is within the line of his parents sight.

He said he seen the kid following behind his parents direction over the hill. So he assumed the child had caught up to them since they just left immediately prior.

Atleast that was my take.

 

[ILOKAL]

Good question.

I assume that this means that Mom & Dad are within GGPA line of sight,...at least at some point. If they remain within GGPA line of sight, wouldn't he know that Deorr was not with them? Wouldn't GGPA then say, I saw DJ with his parents?

GGPA can't know If DJ is within the line of his parents sight.

It's hard to know who is being referred to regarding "line of sight". We must remember that what the sheriff is relaying in his interview/s is not a recording of what people actually said nor did he use the exact same words as were used by the witnesses. There have been so many statements made by the sheriff over and above all of his . . . Uh, uh, uh...uh, uh, uh's. . . That I'm beginning to think maybe Bowerman is not a good communicator and has created and added to much of the confusion. JMO.

 

[desert-blue]

I would think they would care VERY much about LE, Nate and the public having the correct information, particularly if they were trying to get tips from the public about a suspected abduction (their theory). Perhaps no one saw other campers on Fri, but maybe someone out there saw something Thurs night.
Remember what a huge deal it was right here on WS when we were speculating that the parents might have arrived Thurs, based on the PI's comment. Some people were really upset about that, saying it couldn't be so because the parents had already brought forth the timeline.
It was a big deal when we learned of the discrepancy then and it's an even bigger deal now given the silence. IMO. I am open to almost any scenario, but I can't logically completely rule out something happening involving any of the POI's. Nor have LE or the FBI from what we know.

I agree with you 100%. I was trying to say that the family/parents who KNEW the correct arrival date was Thursday, and not Friday as reported by the news, did not care about setting it straight or they would have DONE something to set it straight and they did not. I am confident that they read all the articles stating they got there on Friday, yet they did not make an effort to get the correct information out to the public. Perhaps, LE knew from the get-go, I have no idea, but the public sure didn't. A correct timeline, released to the public, is crucial when a child has gone missing, especially if there is any chance he was abducted. MOO.

ETA: I supposed it is possible that during the early parts of the investigation that LE did not want anyone to know that they were there Thursday night and told DK and JM not to reveal that information - maybe it was intentionally left out as part of a strategy on their part in order to aid their investigation (sometimes police will intentionally omit crucial details that only a suspect would know). Probably far-fetched, but just an idea...

 

[SweetT]

He said he seen the kid following behind his parents direction over the hill. So he assumed the child had caught up to them since they just left immediately prior.

Atleast that was my take.

That is how I took it also. So the parents proceeded on to where ever (The creek they said) and not once ever looked back to check on their baby. They didnt hear him or see him fall down that hill. I feel something is missing here. Where did they go after leaving GGPA's sight?

 

[ILOKAL]

Good question.

I assume that this means that Mom & Dad are within GGPA line of sight,...at least at some point. If they remain within GGPA line of sight, wouldn't he know that Deorr was not with them? Wouldn't GGPA then say, I saw DJ with his parents?

GGPA can't know If DJ is within the line of his parents sight.

Well then, who is "he?". If it's little Deorr, how would GGPA know if "he" was in "their" line of sight? Or is "he" the GGPA . . . Uh? Who is "their" - the parents? Or, "uh" GGPA and IR?

 

[Onebest]

If it is true that they walked off without asking GGP to watch the child---then that's straight up NEGLECT on their part. And that may be why GGP is not speaking publicly, nor is anyone else.

IF it's true...big IF. Neglect is an extremely harsh word unless proven to be true in my opinion. A horrible error, lack of judgement, crappy decision, true, but anyone who has raised babies without saying "that was stupid" has my admiration. Not picking on you katydid23! Just thinking.

 

[pepelepolecat]

<modsnip>

And for perspective, the average lifespan in the US is 78.

I think it's fair and accurate to say he was an older adult.

 

[pepelepolecat]

It's hard to know who is being referred to regarding "line of sight". We must remember that what the sheriff is relaying in his interview/s is not a recording of what people actually said nor did he use the exact same words as were used by the witnesses. There have been so many statements made by the sheriff over and above all of his . . . Uh, uh, uh...uh, uh, uh's. . . That I'm beginning to think maybe Bowerman is not a good communicator and has created and added to much of the confusion. JMO.

The pronoun "their" is a plural. Who was together? iirc, IR and GGPA were not. The parents were together. Therefore, I'd assume the "their" refers to the parents. But I'm not sure how the sheriff/ggpa/whoever would know that the parents could see the child since obviously no one was looking at the child.

 

[ILOKAL]

I agree with you 100%. I was trying to say that the family/parents who KNEW the correct arrival date was Thursday, and not Friday as reported by the news, did not care about setting it straight or they would have DONE something to set it straight and they did not. I am confident that they read all the articles stating they got there on Friday, yet they did not make an effort to get the correct information out to the public. Perhaps, LE knew from the get-go, I have no idea, but the public sure didn't. A correct timeline, released to the public, is crucial when a child has gone missing, especially if there is any chance he was abducted. MOO.

ETA: I supposed it is possible that during the early parts of the investigation that LE did not want anyone to know that they were there Thursday night and told DK and JM not to reveal that information - maybe it was intentionally left out as part of a strategy on their part in order to aid their investigation (sometimes police will intentionally omit crucial details that only a suspect would know). Probably far-fetched, but just an idea...

And wasn't the incorrect information regarding the color of Deorr's eyes given to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children? Did the parents deliberately provide that incorrect information too? Seems to me eye color would be more important in the case of an abducted child than when they arrived but that didn't get corrected within the first month . . . Has it BEEN corrected at all?

 

[ILOKAL]

The pronoun "their" is a plural. Who was together? iirc, IR and GGPA were not. The parents were together. Therefore, I'd assume the "their" refers to the parents. But I'm not sure how the sheriff/ggpa/whoever would know that the parents could see the child since obviously no one was looking at the child.

Oh, then we know for a fact that GGPA and IR weren't together at that time, because them together would make a plural? I didn't know it had been established exactly when IR left the campsite to go fishing.

 

[pepelepolecat]

And wasn't the incorrect information regarding the color of Deorr's eyes given to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children? Did the parents deliberately provide that incorrect information too? Seems to me eye color would be more important in the case of an abducted child than when they arrived but that didn't get corrected within the first month . . . Has it BEEN corrected at all?

No. It's never been corrected.

http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/1251277/1/screen

 

[pepelepolecat]

Oh, then we know for a fact that GGPA and IR weren't together at that time, because them together would make a plural? I didn't know it had been established exactly when IR left the campsite to go fishing.

I said "if I recall correctly." I believe that they were not together at that point based on previous news stories.

But no, I do not know that for a fact. Which is why I qualified my comment with "if I recall correctly."

I suppose I should have also added "imo, jmo, moo" just to cover all bases.

I'm sorry that I came off as knowing something as a fact when I clearly do not.

The only FACT I know is that a two-year-old baby is missing, and no one seems to have a single clue about where he is and who did whatever was done (if anything).

 

[ILOKAL]

And for perspective, the average lifespan in the US is 78.

I think it's fair and accurate to say he was an older adult.

Well the Social Security Administration disagrees with you:

http://www.ssa.gov/planners/lifeexpectancy.html

 

[pepelepolecat]

Well the Social Security Administration disagrees with you:

http://www.ssa.gov/planners/lifeexpectancy.html

Well, not the CDC.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/life-expectancy.htm

 

[kammiemc]

My understanding from what I've seen and read etc is that the parents started to leave the camp site..ggpa was not ASKED to watch the baby. The parents started to walk off and while they were still in eye site the baby followed. GGPA did not assume the baby fell into the creek but that he caught up with mom and dad. What did mom and dad do after going over the edge that they wouldnt have noticed the baby right behind them is my question.. JMO.

One thing I keep thinking about is that the tracking dogs followed DeOrr's scent to the reservoir and back to the campsite. This was the very beginning of the search, before the cremains came into play.

So, if the dogs are doing their jobs, why wasn't it part of the timeline that the parents took DeOrr to the reservoir, so that it could ruled out that the scent trail had anything to do with him missing?

Could he have been following his parents and gotten to the reservoir on his own? DeOrr sr says no. (Plus isn't the rez farther than 150 feet?)

Just another point of confusion.

Why did the dogs follow his scent there?


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[pepelepolecat]

One thing I keep thinking about is that the tracking dogs followed DeOrr's scent to the reservoir and back to the campsite. This was the very beginning of the search, before the cremains came into play.

So, if the dogs are doing their jobs, why wasn't it part of the timeline that the parents took DeOrr to the reservoir, so that it could ruled out that the scent trail had anything to do with him missing?

Could he have been following his parents and gotten to the reservoir on his own? DeOrr sr says no. (Plus isn't the rez farther than 150 feet?)

Just another point of confusion.

Why did the dogs follow his scent there?


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This has been a concern of mine since the beginning.

I know they've carefully searched the reservoir, but ...

(jmo and all that jazz)

 

[ILOKAL]

Well, not the CDC.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/life-expectancy.htm

The SSA life expectancy is based on people who have reached 65 years of age. Once you reach 65 you have a greater life expectancy. Since GGPA has reached 65 (and beyond) he has a longer life expectancy.