ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[pepelepolecat]

The SSA life expectancy is based on people who have reached 65 years of age. Once you reach 65 you have a greater life expectancy. Since GGPA has reached 65 (and beyond) he has a longer life expectancy.

I'm aware of that.

I was speaking generally -- the average life expectancy is 78, and so a person could fairly and accurately say that someone over 70 is an older adult.

It's not an insult, and I didn't take the OP's referring to him that way as intended to be insulting or offensive.

(moo, etcetera, etcetera)

 

[ILOKAL]

I'm aware of that.

I was speaking generally -- the average life expectancy is 78, and so a person could fairly and accurately say that someone over 70 is an older adult.

It's not an insult, and I didn't take the OP's referring to him that way as intended to be insulting or offensive.

(moo, etcetera, etcetera)

Yes and No, because when a person IS 70 (65 or older) they are already "younger" than they would have been had they not yet reached 65 and added several years to their life expectancy . . . LOL . . .

 

[kammiemc]

I agree with you 100%. I was trying to say that the family/parents who KNEW the correct arrival date was Thursday, and not Friday as reported by the news, did not care about setting it straight or they would have DONE something to set it straight and they did not. I am confident that they read all the articles stating they got there on Friday, yet they did not make an effort to get the correct information out to the public. Perhaps, LE knew from the get-go, I have no idea, but the public sure didn't. A correct timeline, released to the public, is crucial when a child has gone missing, especially if there is any chance he was abducted. MOO.

ETA: I supposed it is possible that during the early parts of the investigation that LE did not want anyone to know that they were there Thursday night and told DK and JM not to reveal that information - maybe it was intentionally left out as part of a strategy on their part in order to aid their investigation (sometimes police will intentionally omit crucial details that only a suspect would know). Probably far-fetched, but just an idea...

I don't think anything is too far-fetched, because whatever happened to this little toddler is beyond what we could expect and not much is adding up. The one thing I don't think is possible is that LE or even Nate would have just assumed that the parents arrived on Fri. Even the absolute dumbest cop alive wouldn't assume something that is so critical to the timeline of a missing toddler. And this sheriff doesn't seem dumb or bumbling AT ALL to me. He seems like he is being careful not to say what he really suspects in a public forum. Consider it TOS for sheriffs. [emoji1]


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[ilovepierre]

Who was within who's line of sight?

DeOrr was within his parents' sight.
At least that is what I am getting from that statement.

IMO

 

[Mickshawn]

DeOrr was within his parents' sight.
At least that is what I am getting from that statement.

IMO

But, were they walking away, backs turned towards him? Or looking back at him every now and again?

Or....were they within HIS sight? (and GGP?)

 

[ILOKAL]

DeOrr was within his parents' sight.
At least that is what I am getting from that statement.

IMO

Then how would the GGPA know that? The sheriff is recalling what GGPA said.

 

[ILOKAL]

But, were they walking away, backs turned towards him? Or looking back at him every now and again?

Or....were they within HIS sight? (and GGP?)

And who is "HIS" in your last sentence?

And you said,
"were 'they' walking away, backs turned towards 'him'? Who is THEY and HIM, respectively?

Then you said,
Or looking back at 'him' . . .
Who is HIM in that sentence?

 

[iluvmua]

Then how would the GGPA know that? The sheriff is recalling what GGPA said.

Because he saw DJ follow his parents.

 

[iluvmua]

Why are the parents being so silent about all this?

If that was my child, I would be on every raido station, every national and local news begging people to help find my child.

I think LE knows a lot more than they are sharing and IMO, One or both parents and/or the friend will be arrested.

JMO.

 

[ILOKAL]

Because he saw DJ follow his parents.

So then that translates to Little Deorr was in GGPA's sight? No one else's sight, just GGPA's?

 

[Mickshawn]

And who is "HIS" in your last sentence?

And you said,
"were 'they' walking away, backs turned towards 'him'? Who is THEY and HIM, respectively?

Then you said,
Or looking back at 'him' . . .
Who is HIM in that sentence?

In last sentence: HIS=Baby DeOrr

"were 'they' walking away, backs turned towards 'him'? Who is THEY and HIM, respectively? THEY=Mom & Dad (J & D Sr.) HIM=Baby DeOrr

Then you said,
Or looking back at 'him' . . .
Who is HIM in that sentence? HIM=Baby DeOrr

 

[ILOKAL]

In last sentence: HIS=Baby DeOrr

"were 'they' walking away, backs turned towards 'him'? Who is THEY and HIM, respectively? THEY=Mom & Dad (J & D Sr.) HIM=Baby DeOrr

Then you said,
Or looking back at 'him' . . .
Who is HIM in that sentence? HIM=Baby DeOrr

Thanks, Mick.

 

[rkf]

And during all this switching back and forth from the truck to the suburban and then from the suburban back to the truck GGP and IR never saw little Deorr?

I have no idea. I'm not saying this actually happened. I'm only suggesting how it could happen that IR and ggp didn't see DeOrr but would assume he was there. It doesn't take long to move a sleeping child from a truck to a Suburban and if ggp and IR were otherwise occupied, the parents could have moved DeOrr back and forth without DeOrr being seen at the campsite. I think it's unlikely DeOrr would sleep so much that he would never set foot on the ground at the campsite, but I'm trying to find a way that dogs would not find his scent. It's not clear to me if dogs followed his trail to the reservoir or were attracted there by the cremains. IR wasn't very convincing about seeing DeOrr at the campsite ("as far as I know") and we don't have ggp's direct statement - only others telling us what ggp said. We don't have any information about how the family spent Friday morning. Did they have breakfast with ggp? Take a walk to the reservoir? Until very recently, it was assumed they arrived on Friday morning, so those hours would have been spent driving. How did they spend that time instead? JMO

 

[rkf]

After reading these threads, I'm thinking that if I had little kids and was going camping, I would make them dress in fluorescent glow-in-the-dark clothes and wear a GPS bracelet and life jacket at all times.

And not leave them unattended for 10 - 60 minutes. I've started making my 15 year old wear day-glo orange at the airport. Makes it so easy to keep track of him going through security!

 

[Elena]

I think there's a significant difference between "being forthcoming" and simply not caring whether or not a bunch of strangers (most of which are half a world away) have a clear understanding of the timeline. The police have been saying from the start that they are cooperating so obviously authorities are comfortable with the time line.
I have 4 children and am a photographer by trade. I have some amazing portraiture of my kids but I am not always that worried about documenting every little thing. We took a boat ride with my parents and sister today to an island for the day and I only took 1 picture the entire time and only 1 kid is in the pic. It's really not that weird if they didn't take pix, plenty of my friends only really have the images I take of their kids, they don't document the days.
I also think it's a little far fetched to think they brought a stranger in on part of some cover up. Like, "hey you've never met us but listen do you mind being a part of this huge lie for us?" I mean that just doesn't make any sense at all. As far as arriving Thursday night - again, no big deal? Maybe they had to work Thursday but wanted to have all day Friday there. Having a child doesn't have to be a handicap. I wouldn't hesitate to bring my 20 month old to set up camp at night. I wouldn't leave him with with my dad, though, only because he's a runner with 0 restraint or fear.
I've always kind of thought maybe the parents snuck off for some alone adult time.

*according to your scenario*
Yet:
1. They believed he had been abducted,
2. They care a lot about rumours (on their only one ever appeal, DK brought up about rumour about his job / boss???!)

<modsnip>

 

[blefuscu]

I don't buy the "Deorr wasn't ever there" theory. I don't know why but it just doesn't feel right for me.

It's hard to sleuth when no information is coming out. I wonder if the local sheriff really has any clue? Bringing in the FBI makes it feel like a crime, but then the sheriff doesn't think that there was an abduction and there is no suggestion that the parents have hurt Deorr. There are no positive signals being thrown out.

 

[rkf]

Was just thinking my post may have given the wrong impression right before I read yours. So to clarify, I meant that IR may not have actually seen the baby, he could have arrived at a different time or been away from the camp site at the time. Maybe he arrived that day rather than the night before. Sorry for the confusion.

Didn't IR ride with ggp? If DK and JM slept in ggp's Suburban, while ggp slept in the camper pulled by the Suburban and IR slept in a tent, ggp and IR would have had to arrive on or before Thursday night.

 

[Mickshawn]

Thanks, Mick.

You're welcome!!! By the way, in the little box where we write things, is there a way to enlarge it?

 

[rkf]

It just seems like an odd gathering. Young couple with great grandpa and his friend?

No other women there. No other kids there. You have to sleep in the car until the camper arrives. It just seems odd that they chose to do the outing with just them. Maybe they needed an alibi and didn't want to go with others whom would have paid more attention or notice certain things were fishy.

Jmo

IIRC, ggp drove his Suburban, drawing the camper behind. JM, DK and Deorr drove DK's black truck. Upon arriving around 9:30 on Thursday night near sunset, instead of setting up tents, JM, DK and DeOrr slept in the back of ggp's Suburban, ggp slept in the camper and IR slept in a tent. We don't know how close the sleeping arrangements were to each other - perhaps IR wanted to set up a little further away, maybe the camper had already been unhooked from the Suburban... Just speculating, but I don't think it's that crazy that they would sleep in the back of the truck if they didn't want to set up a tent in the dark. JMO

 

[ILOKAL]

I have no idea. I'm not saying this actually happened. I'm only suggesting how it could happen that IR and ggp didn't see DeOrr but would assume he was there. It doesn't take long to move a sleeping child from a truck to a Suburban and if ggp and IR were otherwise occupied, the parents could have moved DeOrr back and forth without DeOrr being seen at the campsite. I think it's unlikely DeOrr would sleep so much that he would never set foot on the ground at the campsite, but I'm trying to find a way that dogs would not find his scent. It's not clear to me if dogs followed his trail to the reservoir or were attracted there by the cremains. IR wasn't very convincing about seeing DeOrr at the campsite ("as far as I know") and we don't have ggp's direct statement - only others telling us what ggp said. We don't have any information about how the family spent Friday morning. Did they have breakfast with ggp? Take a walk to the reservoir? Until very recently, it was assumed they arrived on Friday morning, so those hours would have been spent driving. How did they spend that time instead? JMO

I think hypotheticals require some degree of reasonableness. You can only s-t-r-e-t-c-h a scenario s-o-o far, IMO. Sometime's dogs just don't track well, period, just like in so many other cases. The reason for that failure is seldom because the person was not there. Also, I think the sheriff is the only one who has provided us with GGPA's direct statements, not just "others" telling us what GGPA said. And do we really need to know if "they" had breakfast with GGPA? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and that's not just MY opinion.