ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[Dockins]

Let me start by saying I have no idea what happened to this precious baby. But, went to the U.S. Whitewater Center outside of Charlotte yesterday. I was biking on the trails, and got turned around, and eventually lost
I don't k ow what happened to this baby, but as a 41 year old in a secured area, it scares me how ' lost' I could have become. Noises seemed to come from everywhere, and the more I peddaled, the further I was from people
I have a completely new respect for someone lost in the woods now.m it's scary.

 

[kammiemc]

The ONLY way the Sheriff could say that he was 100% sure the child was at the campsite is if he witnessed it himself. 99% is pretty dang sure. So there is a 1% chance, because he is not an eye witness, that the child was never there.

1% chance. Tells me everyone (all 4) actually said they saw the child there.

IR doesn't know anything. He was fishing. When asked whether GGP was watching the child when the child disappeared he said "as far as I know that is what happened" So, he was told what happened. He didn't witness anything.

I totally believe what you are saying about IR, and just for clarity, I have never suggested that I thought otherwise or have actually had any idea at all about what he said to LE. He was a little "out to lunch" (or "out to breakfast" as it were) during his NE interview. <modsnip> That said, he could have said what he wanted the public to know.


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[katydid23]

70 is NOT old and hasn't been considered old for quite some time now!

Well, if he allowed a 2 yr old to head towards a creek, all by himself, then he is too old to watch a toddler. I am in my 60's and fell pretty old sometimes, but I would absolutely jump up and look over the embankment if my grandbaby disappeared. The fact that he didn't do that makes me think he is too old to be in charge of a toddler. JMO

 

[catswhiskers]

As per TOS of this forum, DeOrr's parents are still considered victims and this most certainly is their loss - my stomach does a turn every time I try to imagine being in their shoes for even a few hours. Even more sickening when I try to picture DeOrr and whatever happened to him - if he were my own child I don't know that I could even string a sentence together or stagger through each day without him.
I agree with TeaTime wholeheartedly.

 

[Elena]

No. And I say "no" because this isn't about her, and her loss. This is about an innocent toddler who, imo, is most likely dead. This is about Deorr's devastation. And that means no rock either literal or metaphorical should be left unturned in the search both for Deorr's body, and the truth. Nothing is off limits. If people simply just took everybody's word as 100% truth practically every crime would go unpunished. All a criminal need do is say it wasn't him and that's that. Everything needs to be scrutinized. <modsnip>

A child does not just disappear into thin air.

Very, very well said!!! Couldn't agree more! That's probably why Casey Anthony got away with murder.

This also reminds me of Ross Harris and his victim card.

 

[katydid23]

IF it's true...big IF. Neglect is an extremely harsh word unless proven to be true in my opinion. A horrible error, lack of judgement, crappy decision, true, but anyone who has raised babies without saying "that was stupid" has my admiration. Not picking on you katydid23! Just thinking.

I understand what you're saying and I am not trying to be harsh. But I camped a lot when my kids were growing up. We spent 2 weeks in Lassen when our girl was 2 and our boy was 6. It was fun but almost stressful because my husband and I had to take turns having our eyes locked on our 2 yr old. She was an adventurer and a runner, unlike our son, who was more like our shadow.

I just cannot imagine the two of us going off in the middle of the day, without the 2 yr old, unless we had VERY CLEAR committment from someone who would watch her like a hawk. I would never imagine leaving my 2 yr old with my grandfather because I know he would not be able to keep up with her. So it just seems so odd that they walked off without making a clear directive with GGP. If they had done so, then he would have called the boy back when he started following his folks.

I might be unfair in thinking this---but can't help but wonder if they might have seen DeOrr playing quietly with his cars in the dirt, being preoccupied and content, so they took it as an opportunity to get away by themselves. And maybe they didn't really make it clear to GGP that he was in charge. JMO

 

[alexwood]

And not leave them unattended for 10 - 60 minutes. I've started making my 15 year old wear day-glo orange at the airport. Makes it so easy to keep track of him going through security!

And add a helium balloon attached to him with a long string and he's all set!

 

[Mickshawn]

In the picture below, where the red arrow is pointing - drag that corner of the reply box down with your mouse/touch pad and the box should expand.

HTH

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Many Thanks!!!!! Ooodles of room now.

 

[Mickshawn]

LOL, that's what I thought too. No? :dunno: :giggle:

No, the writing "box"...not the words....I enlarged it once, then came back to post again and it stayed large....The little things in life.

 

[relay]

No. And I say "no" because this isn't about her, and her loss. This is about an innocent toddler who, imo, is most likely dead. This is about Deorr's devastation. And that means no rock either literal or metaphorical should be left unturned in the search both for Deorr's body, and the truth. Nothing is off limits. If people simply just took everybody's word as 100% truth practically every crime would go unpunished. All a criminal need do is say it wasn't him and that's that. Everything needs to be scrutinized. To those saying it does not matter whether they arrived Thursday or Friday, you would make awful detectives.

A child does not just disappear into thin air.

To me, Sweet Deorr, his mother, father, grandparents, and all who love him are victims unless I learn otherwise that one of Deorr's family members becomes a suspect(s). This is about Deorr and the family who loves him and their devastation as well.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

The search dogs kept returning to the reservoir but where did they go before they returned to the reservoir?

 

[pepelepolecat]

I understand what you're saying and I am not trying to be harsh. But I camped a lot when my kids were growing up. We spent 2 weeks in Lassen when our girl was 2 and our boy was 6. It was fun but almost stressful because my husband and I had to take turns having our eyes locked on our 2 yr old. She was an adventurer and a runner, unlike our son, who was more like our shadow.

I just cannot imagine the two of us going off in the middle of the day, without the 2 yr old, unless we had VERY CLEAR committment from someone who would watch her like a hawk. I would never imagine leaving my 2 yr old with my grandfather because I know he would not be able to keep up with her. So it just seems so odd that they walked off without making a clear directive with GGP. If they had done so, then he would have called the boy back when he started following his folks.

I might be unfair in thinking this---but can't help but wonder if they might have seen DeOrr playing quietly with his cars in the dirt, being preoccupied and content, so they took it as an opportunity to get away by themselves. And maybe they didn't really make it clear to GGP that he was in charge. JMO

I can see this. I don't think it's uncommon for parents to do this, either (maybe not while camping in an unfamiliar area, though). I also think that the estimate of time about how long he was missing might also be off. That's not necessarily a nefarious thing, imo, but could rather be the stress of the situation, not paying attention to the clock or something similar. Hopefully LE has figured out a solid timeline as far as that goes because that's a fairly big piece of the puzzle (imo).

All of this is my opinion only ...

 

[ILOKAL]

I can see this. I don't think it's uncommon for parents to do this, either (maybe not while camping in an unfamiliar area, though). I also think that the estimate of time about how long he was missing might also be off. That's not necessarily a nefarious thing, imo, but could rather be the stress of the situation, not paying attention to the clock or something similar. Hopefully LE has figured out a solid timeline as far as that goes because that's a fairly big piece of the puzzle (imo).

All of this is my opinion only ...

It's only a fairly big piece of the puzzle if LE believes a crime has been committed, otherwise, it really doesn't matter in the total scope of things. I mean, little Deorr IS gone; he DID vanish; yet the sheriff doesn't believe anything happened to him. MOO

 

[ClaireNC]

I have a feeling that we'll get some news this week. Maybe it's just wishful thinking. lease:

 

[pepelepolecat]

It's only a fairly big piece of the puzzle if LE believes a crime has been committed, otherwise, it really doesn't matter in the total scope of things. I mean, little Deorr IS gone; he DID vanish; yet the sheriff doesn't believe anything happened to him. MOO

You don't think it would affect how far away he would have been able to get? Boy, I sure do.

Just my opinion ...

ETA: Wait, what do you mean the sheriff doesn't believe anything happened to him? How is that possible? Do you have a link to that comment? (moo, jmo)

 

[ILOKAL]

You don't think it would affect how far away he would have been able to get? Boy, I sure do.

Just my opinion ...

ETA: Wait, what do you mean the sheriff doesn't believe anything happened to him? How is that possible? Do you have a link to that comment? (moo, jmo)

I think there "was" a close enough estimate at the time to determine the GREATEST distance he might have gone and the search area went beyond that distance. Anything more precise plays no role at this point in time. IMO

As for what the sheriff has told us, he does not believe DJ was abducted; he does not believe he was taken by an animal; he's pretty positive about him not being in the water; he thinks the dogs (whichever group he is referring to-oh must be HIS and the other dog who are the only dogs that searched the first day) should have found DJ the first day; he thinks DJ is still up there; he is good with the parents and GGPA and has emphatically stated that they are NOT suspects; and he believes IR has been truthful with him on the at least two occasions they went to the area. All of the people who were at the campsite have been named POI.

So, based on what the sheriff has said, he seems to have no clue whatsoever as to what caused little Deorr to disappear, if indeed, he disappeared at all.

 

[ILOKAL]

I have a feeling that we'll get some news this week. Maybe it's just wishful thinking. lease:

Maybe with hunters starting to be in the area, they will be able to find little Deorr.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I think there "was" a close enough estimate at the time to determine the GREATEST distance he might have gone and the search area went beyond that distance. Anything more precise plays no role at this point in time. IMO

As for what the sheriff has told us, he does not believe DJ was abducted; he does not believe he was taken by an animal; he's pretty positive about him not being in the water; he thinks the dogs (whichever group he is referring to-oh must be HIS and the other dog who are the only dogs that searched the first day) should have found DJ the first day; he thinks DJ is still up there; he is good with the parents and GGPA and has emphatically stated that they are NOT suspects; and he believes IR has been truthful with him on the at least two occasions they went to the area. All of the people who were at the campsite have been named POI.

So, based on what the sheriff has said, he seems to have no clue whatsoever as to what caused little Deorr to disappear, if indeed, he disappeared at all.

bbm

So it's not that he believes nothing has happened to him just that iyo he doesn't know.

I rather suspect he either knows or has strong suspicions in some direction. If nothing happened -- then where is he? Because kids to whom nothing happens don't go missing.

 

[wondering25]

For the purpose of discussion.. it all comes down to who and what you choose to believe. I discounted the dogs both cadaver and scent early on. Think of the casey anthony case for example.. those dogs hit on the garden..the baby wasnt there. So, dogs are out for me.

GGP is probably frail and slow to move being dependent on oxygen and having to lug a small O2 delivery device with him makes him less likely to have participated in some plot to make Deorr vanish or even to chase him. IR was fishing and never saw the baby when the mom and dad returned from the store..imo. Furthermore if the parents wanted some alone time, they would sneak away so as not to tip off the baby.. they saw their "moment" "we thought deorr would be good with grandpa by the campfire" and they bolted. JMO

Of course that presupposes that you believe the baby returned from the visit to the store or even went to the store "as a family". A receipt is only proof someone bought goods and the time they bought them..imo. And i have to rell you, i throw out receipts..so I am surprised they even had one..and yes, i understand the store might have a duplicate but the sheriff said they had a receipt..jmo

IMO and only my opinion, this may boil down to "one lies and the other swears to it".. either because they know or because they trust the other person. JMO

 

[dek]

For the purpose of discussion.. it all comes down to who and what you choose to believe. I discounted the dogs both cadaver and scent early on. Think of the casey anthony case for example.. those dogs hit on the garden..the baby wasnt there. So, dogs are out for me.

GGP is probably frail and slow to move being dependent on oxygen and having to lug a small O2 delivery device with him makes him less likely to have participated in some plot to make Deorr vanish or even to chase him. IR was fishing and never saw the baby when the mom and dad returned from the store..imo. Furthermore if the parents wanted some alone time, they would sneak away so as not to tip off the baby.. they saw their "moment" "we thought deorr would be good with grandpa by the campfire" and they bolted. JMO

IIRC JM was GGP caretaker, If he was so frail, why in the world would she leave an active 2 1/2 year old alone with him in a hazardous area (creek, reservoir, rock, wildlife etc.) It makes no sense.