ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #16

[ILOKAL]

I think LE is just saying there is no evidence of such and such to help the public eliminate some of the possibilities. I don't think LE is going to come right out and say we have a bit of evidence that would point to homicide so we think that's what happened. It could jeopardize their case, among other things. I think that is why LE has kept a lot of their theories to themselves, for now. MOO.

So you think during the search when LE stated many times there was no blood that maybe there was?

 

[ILOKAL]

smothering/suffocation could also be accidental or intentional and may leave little evidence behind.

bingo!

 

[ILOKAL]

Word use is so interesting! I added the definition of auxiliary to my post and wondered if he's sort of blending the meanings together.

I think he meant "supplemental" (auxiliary with 2 i's), but I DO like your idea of a brand new word to add to the lexicon with credit going to Klein!!

 

[Trident]

Smothering/suffocation could also be accidental or intentional and may leave little evidence behind.

Like in a bag or something.

 

[Lilibet]

NO! Don't go googling! . I'm not trying to be complicated and I didn't google COD and I don't think Klein did either. IMO, because of a fairly short timeframe if, indeed, Klein's "speculation" on what happened is correct (I think DeOrr wandered away) and No evidence was found and DeOrr wasn't found, then DeOrr, IMO, had to have been buried right away. Would you agree? So although I realize certain bodily fluids exit the body upon death, I don't "think" it happens immediately. Having said that, it would have to be a COD that left no "other" evidence during the commission. I eliminated drowning because I believe it has already been eliminated. When I conclude that this COD would, IMO, eliminate two of the POI's it's because IMO, there are some COD's that are more easily carried out by some than by others. This has nothing to do with the specific POI's in this case but is rather a matter of statistics, I think. I have eliminated an injury occurring elsewhere since Klein seems to have done the same. The only reason I gave this any thought and came to the conclusion I have come to is because no matter WHAT Klein wants "me" to believe he KNOWS about the "how", I know that without a body and without any evidence it has to be a COD that he concluded based the on absence of evidence. I could only think of one. Gee, I hope I'm making some sense. IMO

ETA: I hope we're not the only ones who KNOW that there is NO WAY Klein could possibly KNOW the "how" without a body. After all, he's not a visionary nor does he have a crystal ball. I think many of our thoughts could come closer in line with each other ("our" being a general term) if this was realized. He has "deduced" the COD and I have no problem with that (beyond not agreeing that DeOrr was either killed accidentally or intentionally). IMO

EETA: I forgot to mention that since, according to Klein, little DeOrr was either killed accidentally OR intentionally, the COD would have to apply to EITHER.

OK, now I see your train of thought. It was a little harder in the middle of the night! I agree that DeOrr would have had to be buried right away if Klein is correct.

I have always believed that DeOrr wandered away and got further than expected by searchers. He had a lot of time really, once he was out of sight of the campsite. What happened to him after that is anybody's guess IMO.

Without a body, it's often easier to deduce WHO did the killing (if it is murder) than HOW. That's the case with Stephanie Warner, featured in my signature. I don't understand how Klein can say he knows HOW, but if he's trying to shake the tree of knowledge by saying that, I'm OK with it.
JMO, MOO, etc.

 

[Hatfield]

I have to wonder what the relationship is now between Klein and the family member who hired him.

I could not find who exactly hired him. We know the last investigator didn't work out and I have to wonder what the relationship is now like after Klein has come out with the latest statements.

I guess I am just glad he is trying and still working on the case. Since LE also agreed there was some new evidence I do think some things must have progressed some.

The big question was it anything substantial or concrete enough to help the case get to a conclusion.

He no doubt has used this case to help publicize his company but I do think he is working hard too and trying his best. Time will tell where things will head.

After reading a lot about it today I am going to remain hopeful this case gets solved at some point.

 

[Dee10]

I am not saying a hot car is the way Deorr passed, but just want to point out people have been charged in these kinds of cases.

This is an example of a case in Connetticut of what this man could be charged with:

"Prosecutors could decide to go with a murder charge if they think there's evidence of intent to kill, they could go with recklessness if they think he was aware there was a risk that this could happen but he consciously disregarded it, or they could charge him with criminally negligent homicide if they think he acted negligently, irresponsibly," Dunlap explained.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Death-of-Baby-Hot-Car-Death-Ruled-a-Homicide-272160271.html

 

[desert-blue]

bingo!

Okay, I'm with you now... (I think). Interesting.

 

[4senthia]

And all we can do is wait and hope.
Wishing DeOrr was found like little Noah Chamberlin if he isn't with us anymore
jmo

 

[Purplepixii]

From my understanding, it's pretty well nigh impossible to do a successful home cremation.

It is - it's often how murderers are caught because getting a fire to burn at the correct temperature for the correct amount of time is very difficult outside of a crematorium.
This link has really good info on cremation http://science.howstuffworks.com/cremation1.htm
And this link shows how "home cremations" have failed http://www.officer.com/article/10250502/burning-evidence

Yes, I googled. I don't plan on cremating anyone so hopefully this won't bite me in the *advertiser censored*

 

[Jo in Calif]

Is Klein saying by the how is that he knows what caused the disappearance and not the death of DeOrr? Has he stated that he knows how DeOrr died? If he has stated that I can't find it. He has stated accidental or intentional not that he acutely knows how he died.
For instance if the parents stopped on their way to the store to explore and DeOrr accidentally fell off an embankment and died, they panicked and hid him there, on the mountain, that would be a covered up accident correct? Not saying that I think the parents are responsible, just using that as an example of an accident. IMO.

 

[ILOKAL]

Is Klein saying by the how is that he knows what caused the disappearance and not the death of DeOrr? Has he stated that he knows how DeOrr died? If he has stated that I can't find it. He has stated accidental or intentional not that he acutely knows how he died.
For instance if the parents stopped on their way to the store to explore and DeOrr accidentally fell off an embankment and died, they panicked and hid him there, on the mountain, that would be a covered up accident correct? Not saying that I think the parents are responsible, just using that as an example of an accident. IMO.

Klein has said on numerous occasions that he knows "how" DeOrr died but not the "why". He also said it was "either" accidental or intentional. IMO. He has ruled out, beyond a reasonable doubt, wandering off, animal attack, and forced abduction due to the lack of finding any evidence that would bring him to those conclusions. IMO

 

[desert-blue]

So you think during the search when LE stated many times there was no blood that maybe there was?

I have no idea, but blood is not the only kind of evidence.

 

[flourish]

Having handled cremains from an actual human from an actual official crematorium, I can tell you it's not just ashes. There were sharp little bone shards. FWIW

 

[ILOKAL]

I don't think Klein knows much of anything, honestly. This vague and poorly worded game of inferences is attention- seeking for Klein, imo, and getting more attention to the case is a side effect of that.

If you really know enough to definitively state all the stuff you're definitively stating, then the actual police case would be going somewhere, a body, an arrest, increased police activity at locations, etc.

Dude needs to step back out of the limelight, and enroll in some ethics and writing classes, imo.

I still think this poor child died from an actual accidental injury or animal attack and hasn't had human eyes laid on him since he wandered off. This was a tragic accidental death in the wilderness, imo, and nature is the culprit, not a human.

I share your opinion of Mr. Klein. As an example, yesterday I was directed to his Facebook page to read a response he gave to a question. I don't DO Facebook, but I was able to read the public questions, responses, and individual comments between posters. There was an ongoing discussion about him saying that JM said she saw a black Jeep and that it was a farce. A poster asked him to clarify. It should have been a very simple answer. It wasn't JM who saw or mentioned a black jeep. PERIOD, end of clarity. But instead, he (or one of his employees) gave a reply (that left those who so eagerly place evil squarely upon DK and JM) just as "confused" as they already had been and said they (Klein and Co) would not be offering any additional clarification on the subject. (In reality, the posters really didn't seem to be confused at all) IMO.

 

[ILOKAL]

I have no idea, but blood is not the only kind of evidence.

. Oh, I realize that, but with any other COD there would have been blood, there was NO blood, so it makes his HOW pretty easy for him to figure out, the same way "we" figured it out. IMO

 

[4senthia]

I've worked at a crematorium in the past.
The cremains that contaminated the reservoir were explained by SB.
There is access to crematoriums near the campsite.
I don't know who, why or however.
Once again, does anyone know if it was the RSO from the store who spread those ashes (of her recently deceased mom) or was it a member of the family who was camping above the reservoir? TIA for a clarification.
jmo

 

[Mountaingazer]

I share your opinion of Mr. Klein. As an example, yesterday I was directed to his Facebook page to read a response he gave to a question. I don't DO Facebook, but I was ale to read the public questions, responses, and individual comments between posters. There was an ongoing discussion about him saying that JM said she was a black Jeep and that it was a farce. A poster asked him to clarify. It should have been a very simple answer. It wasn't JM who saw or mentioned a black jeep. PERIOD, end of clarity. But instead, he (or one of his employees) gave a reply (that left those who so eagerly place evil squarely upon DK and JM) just as "confused" as they already had been and said they (Klein and Co) would not be offering any additional clarification on the subject. (In reality, the posters really didn't seem to be confused at all) IMO.

It seems every clarifying question that gets asked of him results in an answer that only muddies things more. I don't think it helps that they have a few different people who post under that account either.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Word use is so interesting! I added the definition of auxiliary to my post and wondered if he's sort of blending the meanings together.

Or not using certain words. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall Klein ever saying the words campsite/campground and wonder why he avoids the use. He keeps using the general "on the mountain" or "near the mountain". The problem is though that if Deorr wasn't ever specifically at the Timber Creek campground then that would mean all POI's have lied and that just doesn't make sense.

Then again Klein has said (paraphrasing) you think you've seen it all and then a case like this comes along.

 

[bessie]

Or not using certain words. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall Klein ever saying the words campsite/campground and wonder why he avoids the use. He keeps using the general "on the mountain" or "near the mountain". The problem is though that if Deorr wasn't ever specifically at the Timber Creek campground then that would mean all POI's have lied and that just doesn't make sense.

Then again Klein has said (paraphrasing) you think you've seen it all and then a case like this comes along.

This is just my take, fwiw. Klein is reluctant to say DeOrr was at the campsite itself, because no one outside of the four POI's claim to have seen him there. I believe there are others ("auxiliary/ancillary" eyewitnesses) who did see DeOrr, but in locations outside of the campsite proper. He's satisfied with their accounts because presumably, those individuals are objective third parties. Therefore, he's comfortable with saying DeOrr was "on or near the mountain". And as I've said previously, to reach the conclusion that DeOrr's remains presently are "on or near the mountain", Klein first must have been convinced that DeOrr was there prior to being reported missing.

It's similar to Sheriff Bowerman saying that he is 99% certain DeOrr was at the campsite. Obviously, he's reached that conclusion based on some evidence, whether it be eyewitness accounts or otherwise. But, short of having seen him with his own eyes, 99% is the highest level of certainty he can assign to the fact.

JMO