ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #16

[ILOKAL]

But it that is the case, would investigators use the term "previously w/held" information to describe new leads?

I would think so. They're not indicating whatever it is was deliberately withheld. imo

 

[neesaki]

LE isn't going to say we have new leads from 'a witness' with previously withheld information. They do not want to release any detail of where the new lead(s) came from, just that they have it from previously withheld information. This is for the integrity of the investigation and protection of the witness . Klein, however, can say "a witness, with direct knowledge, not hearsay, with previously withheld information" (not direct quotes) all he wants. What he says is not held to the same standards as that of LE.

Klein is almost playing bad cop in this while LE plays good cop. Klein issues veiled threats, not LE.

It sounds to me that Klein got someone to talk and then that person also talked to LE and disclosed the previously withheld information. It is likely someone LE talked to before and now they are nervous about not telling what they knew during earlier interviews. Remember Klein would not release his last statement until LE had it and then it was requested that the statement release be delayed. At least Klein stated on his fb page that it was requested that the release be delayed for 24-48 hours. We do not know who requested that but, if it was LE it was because they were talking to the witness.

Klein said he was now vetting the information but, if LE has the info, you can believe they are vetting it too.

Something is happening and Klein got it started.

The new witness(es) can not be IR. Unless Klein is lying when he says that IR didn't talk to him, it is impossible for Klein to have gotten any info from IR. So, these new witnesses are other than the 4 POIs.

How can you get information that was previously withheld in any form other than a witness? My mind is blank on what other way(s) one could possibly get information previously withheld from LE.

Thanks for bringing this out, TeaTime. I've been thinking that Klein and LE may actually be working together to some extent, since they came out with their most recent statements within days of each other (or was it hours?), both stating they have a lead involving "previously withheld" information. I mean was that just coincidence? And didn't Klein also mention in one of his interviews that he's been working closely with the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office, and others ? (sorry, no link) JMHO

 

[Cricket99]

I hope this is solved soon. It is time. So many rumors and mis-reporting that it is impossible to figure it all out. I did notice that Deorr's picture on the big lit up billboard along the freeway is no longer up. That could be a financial thing, I suppose.

 

[desert-blue]

I would think there's only one way without leaving any evidence. When he says he "knows" he's probably basing it on lack of any evidence. The same deduction he used to eliminate other scenarios. That would mean (it seems) he would have to eliminate two of the four POI. IMO

ETA: His "how" is just deductive reasoning, not rocket science, IMO.

I guess I'm not following you. I have no idea what is on the table as far as "how" DeOrr met his death - couldn't it be just about anything? It does seem like rocket science to me.... I am clueless. Unless you think "how" just means that his death was caused by one of the four POI's? To me that seems more like who, not how. To me, how seems like the actual cause of death. Maybe I'm just confused...

 

[ILOKAL]

I guess I'm not following you. I have no idea what is on the table as far as "how" DeOrr met his death - couldn't it be just about anything? It does seem like rocket science to me.... I am clueless. Unless you think "how" just means that his death was caused by one of the four POI's? To me that seems more like who, not how. To me, how seems like the actual cause of death. Maybe I'm just confused...

Although I don't believe little DeOrr was accidentally or intentionally killed by one of the four, if he WAS killed on the mountain, no one has found evidence of that. Correct? No evidence whatsoever has been found. Having said that, I can only think of one COD that would leave no evidence. If that were to BE the COD, it is my opinion it would automatically eliminate two of the four. Does this help?

 

[desert-blue]

Although I don't believe little DeOrr was accidentally or intentionally killed by one of the four, if he WAS killed on the mountain, no one has found evidence of that. Correct? No evidence whatsoever has been found. Having said that, I can only think of one COD that would leave no evidence. If that were to BE the COD, it is my opinion it would automatically eliminate two of the four. Does this help?

Sorry, not helping.... however it's late and my brain is tired.... a mountain lion I suppose could leave no evidence, but how does that eliminate only two of the POI's? Not finding evidence and there actually being no evidence are two different things also. If he was killed elsewhere, maybe the evidence just hasn't been found?

ETA: on second thought, I don't think a ML could leave no evidence either, but it could also be that it just hasn't been found...

 

[ILOKAL]

Sorry, not helping.... however it's late and my brain is tired.... a mountain lion I suppose could leave no evidence, but how does that eliminate only two of the POI's? Not finding evidence and there actually being no evidence are two different things also. If he was killed elsewhere, maybe the evidence just hasn't been found?

ETA: on second thought, I don't think a ML could leave no evidence either, but it could also be that it just hasn't been found...

I'm not referring to a mountain lion. I'm simply using Klein's accusation that DeOrr was on the mountain Friday, is still on the mountain, and was either killed accidentally or murdered. He goes on to say no one else was around the area where they camped. We already knew there was no evidence found and that same lack of evidence has caused Klein to dismiss an animal attack and a forced abduction. Klein has ALSO said he knows HOW DeOrr was killed but does not know why. There is, IMO, only one COD that Klein could possibly be referring to that would leave no evidence and he could use without finding the body. So, just as Klein has based his dismissal of an animal attack or a forced abduction on lack of any evidence, he must use that same lack of evidence in his determination that DeOrr was accidentally or intentionally killed on the mountain. If Klein is correct in saying he knows HOW DeOrr was killed, it would, IMO, automatically eliminate two of the four POI's.

 

[TeaTime]

Ilokal how would knowing HOW DeOrr died, i.e., murdered, eliminate 2 of the 4 POIs? I am not following.

Klein is not speculating on the cause of death but rather the manner, i.e., homicide, when he says "How". And I can't figure out how this eliminates any POI either. I am not following.

 

[ILOKAL]

Ilokal how would knowing HOW DeOrr died, i.e., murdered, eliminate 2 of the 4 POIs? I am not following.

Klein is not speculating on the cause of death but rather the manner, i.e., homicide, when he says "How". And I can't figure out how this eliminates any POI either. I am not following.

I take his "how" to mean COD. He's already said he doesn't KNOW the manner of death because he said it is "either" accident or homicide.

Since everyone seems to be in agreement (Klein and LE) that there is no evidence, then in order for DeOrr to have been killed by a person, it would have to be in a way that would leave no evidence. Without a body, we KNOW Klein doesn't have actual knowledge as to a COD, do he has to have come to his conclusion based on what is known, the same way he concluded that because of lack of evidence, DeOrr wasn't attacked by an animal nor was he forcefully abducted. What he actually knows is there is no evidence that DeOrr was injured in anyway. So, in your own mind, examine the possible COD's and eliminate those that would leave physical evidence.

All IMO.

ETA: Of course, there's the possibility that Klein is merely posturing and doesn't "know" anything.

 

[Lilibet]

I take his "how" to mean COD. He's already said he doesn't KNOW the manner of death because he said it is "either" accident or homicide.

Since everyone seems to be in agreement (Klein and LE) that there is no evidence, then in order for DeOrr to have been killed by a person, it would have to be in a way that would leave no evidence. Without a body, we KNOW Klein doesn't have actual knowledge as to a COD, do he has to have come to his conclusion based on what is known, the same way he concluded that because of lack of evidence, DeOrr wasn't attacked by an animal nor was he forcefully abducted. What he actually knows is there is no evidence that DeOrr was injured in anyway. So, in your own mind, examine the possible COD's and eliminate those that would leave physical evidence.

All IMO.

ETA: Of course, there's the possibility that Klein is merely posturing and doesn't "know" anything.

BBM

I'm stumped and I don't dare Google this because "someone" in cyberspace will think I'm trying to plan the perfect murder! :gasp:

But I will say that any cause of death leaving traces of bodily fluids behind can be ruled out, since there is no evidence of injury at the campsite. However, that does not mean that an injury didn't occur elsewhere.

I would guess that drowning would not leave physical evidence at the campsite. But that would require removing DeOrr from the immediate area without leaving any trace. I'm guessing that this scenario would eliminate GGP and IR, but I don't understand how you come up with a scenario eliminating two of the four. Help!!

I honestly don't see how Klein can "know" anything this definitely.

 

[4senthia]

I'm lost on this one right now too, wishing I knew more or understood better.
Any scenarios short of drowning leave evidence behind. If DeOrr accidentally got into prescription pills or such he would probably have left body fluids. There wasn't enough time to cremate his body either.
So since the dogs went to the reservoir, and the cremains were dumped "during the search" maybe DK was in the water there and removed (modsnip)? That would be an accident and coverup.
Hmmmm....
jmo

 

[MBK]

I honestly don't see how Klein can "know" anything this definitely.

If grandstanding has an effect of bringing more information out of the woodwork, so to speak, I don't mind his methods at all.

 

[bessie]

I wonder if Klein found somebody who had been at the campground or driving past, and who hadn't come forward before. Just speculating about other witnesses/info that might not have been available...

That's been my impression all along. Someone observed something untoward taking place "on or near the mountain". It's not clear, at least not to me, whether this is a brand new witness, or someone who'd been interviewed previously and withheld information. When I first read the announcement, I thought he was referring to the former.

 

[Hatfield]

If grandstanding has an effect of bringing more information out of the woodwork, so to speak, I don't mind his methods at all.

I agree.

All JMO
I hope this case is solved soon. Its been way too long.

I think maybe someone who has had enough and wants it to end. Maybe someone who originally didn't share all they knew and maybe now is willing to share everything.

If I had to guess as to where the boy is. At this point I am unfortunately thinking he is no longer with us.

Either buried somewhere in the woods or maybe cremains will end up being part of the case again.

When the story of cremains first came out it seemed it was very sketchy and I have always wondered about that. The odds of that happening right around the time of his missing has always bothered me.

Anyhow I do hope this case gets solved soon.

 

[ILOKAL]

BBM

I'm stumped and I don't dare Google this because "someone" in cyberspace will think I'm trying to plan the perfect murder! :gasp:

But I will say that any cause of death leaving traces of bodily fluids behind can be ruled out, since there is no evidence of injury at the campsite. However, that does not mean that an injury didn't occur elsewhere.

I would guess that drowning would not leave physical evidence at the campsite. But that would require removing DeOrr from the immediate area without leaving any trace. I'm guessing that this scenario would eliminate GGP and IR, but I don't understand how you come up with a scenario eliminating two of the four. Help!!

I honestly don't see how Klein can "know" anything this definitely.

NO! Don't go googling! . I'm not trying to be complicated and I didn't google COD and I don't think Klein did either. IMO, because of a fairly short timeframe if, indeed, Klein's "speculation" on what happened is correct (I think DeOrr wandered away) and No evidence was found and DeOrr wasn't found, then DeOrr, IMO, had to have been buried right away. Would you agree? So although I realize certain bodily fluids exit the body upon death, I don't "think" it happens immediately. Having said that, it would have to be a COD that left no "other" evidence during the commission. I eliminated drowning because I believe it has already been eliminated. When I conclude that this COD would, IMO, eliminate two of the POI's it's because IMO, there are some COD's that are more easily carried out by some than by others. This has nothing to do with the specific POI's in this case but is rather a matter of statistics, I think. I have eliminated an injury occurring elsewhere since Klein seems to have done the same. The only reason I gave this any thought and came to the conclusion I have come to is because no matter WHAT Klein wants "me" to believe he KNOWS about the "how", I know that without a body and without any evidence it has to be a COD that he concluded based the on absence of evidence. I could only think of one. Gee, I hope I'm making some sense. IMO

ETA: I hope we're not the only ones who KNOW that there is NO WAY Klein could possibly KNOW the "how" without a body. After all, he's not a visionary nor does he have a crystal ball. I think many of our thoughts could come closer in line with each other ("our" being a general term) if this was realized. He has "deduced" the COD and I have no problem with that (beyond not agreeing that DeOrr was either killed accidentally or intentionally). IMO

EETA: I forgot to mention that since, according to Klein, little DeOrr was either killed accidentally OR intentionally, the COD would have to apply to EITHER.

 

[Dee10]

Phillip Klein has years of experience and I believe he has developed a lot of street smarts as well applying common sense over the years. IMO he certainly knows how to 'shake the trees'. I'd love to hear him on Tricia's radio show.

 

[pepelepolecat]

As of recently? Does that mean he wasn't before?

That is certainly the implication Klein gives, but early in the investigation, SB was quoted as saying that IR had been very cooperative and he felt that IR was being truthful.

Personally, I think Klein isn't doing much to quell any rumors but is adding fuel to the social media fire. *opinion only*

 

[4senthia]

I suppose he could have been cremated elsewhere, but that's a line of thought I will only allude to, not making an accusation of any sort.
Not trying to be obtuse. Just honestly thinking out loud. Not meaning to offend.
jmo

 

[MBK]

I suppose he could have been cremated elsewhere, but that's a line of thought I will only allude to, not making an accusation of any sort.
Not trying to be obtuse. Just honestly thinking out loud. Not meaning to offend.
jmo

From my understanding, it's pretty well nigh impossible to do a successful home cremation.

 

[AmyPond]

I am still not able to figure out what the COD could be, per Klein's thoughts. I am at a loss, honestly. I feel like I'm missing something, I guess.

I understand he could possibly have been buried quickly. But being buried doesn't give me any ideas of what COD could have been.