ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #16

[ReadySet]

I'm not certain (IIRC) SB said that his work there was seasonal (or not). I think that was speculation by some posters. IMO

Yes, I remember it from discussion here. I believe someone looked the person up--the name was known--and found that he was from Texas. I don't remember how someone knew he was doing seasonal work. Maybe it was just surmised because he was from out of state. Seasonal work for the FS is common, usually from May to October.

 

[giagreen]

Well, Mods, if not allowed, please delete!

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/posts/940690416013543

As of recently? Does that mean he wasn't before?

 

[TeaTime]

LE isn't going to say we have new leads from 'a witness' with previously withheld information. They do not want to release any detail of where the new lead(s) came from, just that they have it from previously withheld information. This is for the integrity of the investigation and protection of the witness . Klein, however, can say "a witness, with direct knowledge, not hearsay, with previously withheld information" (not direct quotes) all he wants. What he says is not held to the same standards as that of LE.

Klein is almost playing bad cop in this while LE plays good cop. Klein issues veiled threats, not LE.

It sounds to me that Klein got someone to talk and then that person also talked to LE and disclosed the previously withheld information. It is likely someone LE talked to before and now they are nervous about not telling what they knew during earlier interviews. Remember Klein would not release his last statement until LE had it and then it was requested that the statement release be delayed. At least Klein stated on his fb page that it was requested that the release be delayed for 24-48 hours. We do not know who requested that but, if it was LE it was because they were talking to the witness.

Klein said he was now vetting the information but, if LE has the info, you can believe they are vetting it too.

Something is happening and Klein got it started.

The new witness(es) can not be IR. Unless Klein is lying when he says that IR didn't talk to him, it is impossible for Klein to have gotten any info from IR. So, these new witnesses are other than the 4 POIs.

How can you get information that was previously withheld in any form other than a witness? My mind is blank on what other way(s) one could possibly get information previously withheld from LE.

 

[ReadySet]

Regarding the question about Federal land and Federal Grand Jury: Little Deorr went missing (allegedly) from the Salmon Challis National Forest. This is Federal land. Therefore, if a murder is committed on Federal land, it can be prosecuted at the Federal level, which could include a Federal grand jury. It can also be prosecuted at the state level. I don't know how they determine that. --Of course we don't know if there was a murder, and, if so, we don't know if it was committed in the forest.


[h=1]State Crimes vs. Federal Crimes[/h]
There are fewer classes of federal crimes because while state lawmakers can pass just about any law, as long as it is constitutional, federal lawmakers can pass laws onlywhere there is some federal or national interest at stake. For example, counterfeiting is a federal offense because it is the federal government’s duty to print money. In practice, federal interest is very broadly defined. The federal government has jurisdiction over the following crimes:

• Any crime that takes place on federal land or involves federal officers, such as a murder in a national forest or on an Indian reservation, a theft on a military base, or an assault against a Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) agent,
• A crime where the defendant crosses state lines, for example, a person who takes a kidnapping victim from Oregon to Nevada,
• A crime where the criminal conduct crosses state lines, for example, an Internet fraud scheme the has victims and perpetrators in multiple states, and
• Immigration and customs violations, such as importing child *advertiser censored* or international human trafficking.

 

[MBK]

IMO, the "new witness", or the witness who came forward with previously withheld information, is the clerk in the store (or someone else at the store.) Or, possibly someone where they bought diesel. I'm not sure if there were any other stops made on their trip there or their trip to the store.

 

[desert-blue]

If Klein thinks he knows how DeOrr was killed (without a body and/or autopsy), do we also assume that he likely knows (or thinks he knows) who killed DeOrr as well?

 

[MBK]

If Klein thinks he knows how DeOrr was killed (without a body and/or autopsy), do we also assume that he likely knows (or thinks he knows) who killed DeOrr as well?

Good point . . and I would assume so. He says he doesn't know "why", but there is no why for evil. And if it was an "accident", the why for covering up the truth is despicable.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Remember Klein would not release his last statement until LE had it and then it was requested that the statement release be delayed. At least Klein stated on his fb page that it was requested that the release be delayed for 24-48 hours.

I wondered whether SB was still on his holidays and had to be contacted and briefed before giving Klein the go ahead to release the statement.

 

[ILOKAL]

If Klein thinks he knows how DeOrr was killed (without a body and/or autopsy), do we also assume that he likely knows (or thinks he knows) who killed DeOrr as well?

I would think there's only one way without leaving any evidence. When he says he "knows" he's probably basing it on lack of any evidence. The same deduction he used to eliminate other scenarios. That would mean (it seems) he would have to eliminate two of the four POI. IMO

ETA: His "how" is just deductive reasoning, not rocket science, IMO.

 

[desert-blue]

Good point . . and I would assume so. He says he doesn't know "why", but there is no why for evil. And if it was an "accident", the why for covering up the truth is despicable.

I can understand not knowing the motive for sure, but if he has enough information to conclude how DeOrr was killed, then he must also know who did it. I don't see how he could know how but not who. He could know who but not how but that's not what he said. This is beginning to sound like a Dr. Seuss book.

If he already knows who and how then why does he need to talk to IR anyway? Does he think IR is going to shed light on the motive?

(ETA: I don't feel IR is the killer, just to be clear)

 

[ILOKAL]

LE isn't going to say we have new leads from 'a witness' with previously withheld information. They do not want to release any detail of where the new lead(s) came from, just that they have it from previously withheld information. This is for the integrity of the investigation and protection of the witness . Klein, however, can say "a witness, with direct knowledge, not hearsay, with previously withheld information" (not direct quotes) all he wants. What he says is not held to the same standards as that of LE.

Klein is almost playing bad cop in this while LE plays good cop. Klein issues veiled threats, not LE.

It sounds to me that Klein got someone to talk and then that person also talked to LE and disclosed the previously withheld information. It is likely someone LE talked to before and now they are nervous about not telling what they knew during earlier interviews. Remember Klein would not release his last statement until LE had it and then it was requested that the statement release be delayed. At least Klein stated on his fb page that it was requested that the release be delayed for 24-48 hours. We do not know who requested that but, if it was LE it was because they were talking to the witness.

Klein said he was now vetting the information but, if LE has the info, you can believe they are vetting it too.

Something is happening and Klein got it started.

The new witness(es) can not be IR. Unless Klein is lying when he says that IR didn't talk to him, it is impossible for Klein to have gotten any info from IR. So, these new witnesses are other than the 4 POIs.

How can you get information that was previously withheld in any form other than a witness? My mind is blank on what other way(s) one could possibly get information previously withheld from LE.

In the 14 Q&A interviews, first he refers to "a witness" and later he refers to "witnesses".

Previously withheld information can be found documents, found pictures, or anything that could have been found that would provide information. That it was withheld would just mean it wasn't turned over during the investigation. It could also be the forensic evidence Klein referred to.

 

[carbuff]

I wonder if Klein found somebody who had been at the campground or driving past, and who hadn't come forward before. Just speculating about other witnesses/info that might not have been available...

 

[kammiemc]

As of recently? Does that mean he wasn't before?

We know from the sheriff that he was cooperative in the beginning so I took this to mean it, yes that still hasn't changed as of recently. But it is vague enough that I guess he could be implying that there was a timeframe there where he wasn't cooperating, perhaps if the lawyer came onboard and told him he shouldn't speak or something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mickshawn]

I can understand not knowing the motive for sure, but if he has enough information to conclude how DeOrr was killed, then he must also know who did it. I don't see how he could know how but not who. He could know who but not how but that's not what he said. This is beginning to sound like a Dr. Seuss book.

If he already knows who and how then why does he need to talk to IR anyway? Does he think IR is going to shed light on the motive?

(ETA: I don't feel IR is the killer, just to be clear)

Perhaps IR knows "where" the baby is?

 

[kammiemc]

I hate that the poor sheriff is catching grief because he went on vacation. Sheesh, even the POTIS goes on vaca. There are some jobs where important things happen all the time. But you're no good to anyone if you don't catch a breather and reset. I don't blame him for needing a break.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hoosier952]

As of recently? Does that mean he wasn't before?

Based on interviews, IR was cooperative in the beginning. I'm guessing as soon as he lawyered up, he became "uncooperative" in the eyes of LE and PI. If they aren't freely able to communicate, and I'd assume his lawyer has told IR not to say a word to anyone, then he's not exactly cooperating with the investigation. If IR was recently talking to LE, my guess is they have some very important questions that don't involve him as the suspect. I don't think the lawyer would want him talking if LE thought he was guilty of any major wrongdoing.

 

[Spomraning]

I wonder if it's (the witness with info) somebody that knows IR, maybe a friend or family member who IR talked to. Or possibly somebody who IR confided in about something that happened during the camping trip? JMO, IMO

 

[ILOKAL]

I wonder if it's (the witness with info) somebody that knows IR, maybe a friend or family member who IR talked to. Or possibly somebody who IR confided in about something that happened during the camping trip? JMO, IMO

I still think there's a strong possibility it's the GGP. He might have actually suffered from PTSD due to the shock of DeOrr's disappearance and just recently recalled something he was unable to recall before. imo

 

[OSpyder]

Thank you OSpyder. I finally got to the right place and I saw it. I thought it was in the article with the 14 Q&A's. No wonder I didn't see it. I don't DO Facebook. I shows that was posted five hours ago. Is that correct?

Kind of odd coming from one allegedly working so closely with LE. He thinks IR has recently been cooperating with LE. He "believes" he has. He doesn't sound too sure. IMO

Thank you (and everyone else) for helping me find that comment. I really appreciate it.

No problemo! I am sure I'll need help navigating on these forums from time to time too. [emoji6]

 

[OSpyder]

I still think there's a strong possibility it's the GGP. He might have actually suffered from PTSD due to the shock of DeOrr's disappearance and just recently recalled something he was unable to recall before. imo

But it that is the case, would investigators use the term "previously w/held" information to describe new leads? After all, you can't w/hold information if you don't remember it.. Just a thought?