ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

[krig101]

He said due to more tips over the past few days & different versions of the timeline that K INVESTIGSTIONS feels that the original 17 minute window the baby was unaccounted for is now more like 4 hours. They hadn't seen the baby in four hours.

What?! Wow.
If true I'm just disgusted by this. [emoji35]

ETA: Just read more posts, if that window was including LE arrival etc that would makes more sense. Otherwise that really doesn't look good on the parents. JMO


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[mrjitty]

I've never heard 17 minutes before today. I have a feeling that Klein thought he had a timeframe narrowed down to 17 minutes which has now been revised. DK said "50 yards/10 minutes" away in one interview, Jessica said he'd been missing an hour in the 911 call. Trina or DK Sr (the grandpa of little DeOrr) said something about 4 minutes at one point. I am guessing that shifting timeline has shifted all over the place and that's one of the biggest inconsistencies LE has seen to make them suspicious.

I find it a bit amazing that in a live case this PI is going on TV and talking?

Is this normal in the US?

Or is LEF encouraging him to do this as a way to pressure the suspects?

Very odd!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Who's the "scottish lass" you refer to mrjitty?

 

[mrjitty]

Who's the "scottish lass" you refer to mrjitty?

Though certain criminals i won't name love to promote the idea that cadaver dog evidence is not admissible / reliable actually it is far from true

In the case of Suzanne Pilley the cadaver dogs gave two key hits.

On 23 February 2012, the advocate depute led evidence from a Lothian and Borders Police constable who told the court that they had enlisted the help of specially trained cadaver dogs from South Yorkshire Police to search the offices where David Gilroy and Suzanne Pilley worked. The dogs were specially trained to smell for blood and human remains. The court was told that the dogs, springer spaniels, had identified three areas of interest; one in the basement area of the offices, and two in the boot of David Gilroy's silver Vauxhall Vectra.[14]

Yet even though Police know the general direction that the body is hidden in - the area is too vast to find it.

Nevertheless the prosecution was successful.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Suzanne_Pilley

Suzanne Pilley (1972–May 2010) was a 38-year-old British bookkeeper from Edinburgh, Scotland, who went missing on the morning of 4 May 2010. Following a highly publicised appeal for information on her whereabouts and intensive police enquiries, her former lover, David Gilroy, was arrested and charged with her murder. He was found guilty by majority verdict on 15 March 2012 and sentenced to life imprisonment. The case is controversial because the prosecution obtained a murder conviction without a body. The body of Suzanne Pilley has never been found.[1]

 

[mrjitty]

He said due to more tips over the past few days & different versions of the timeline that K INVESTIGSTIONS feels that the original 17 minute window the baby was unaccounted for is now more like 4 hours. They hadn't seen the baby in four hours.

I also thought this was interesting.

My guess is that there is no reliable sighting of the child since mid morning (i.e. about 4hrs prior to the 911 call)

 

[krig101]

A really big question for me right now is whether or not IR had seen DeOrr awake...
It might help answer another question I have as far as if the parents were already looking for a place to hide an already deceased DeOrr while on their way to go camping versus scrambling to find somewhere in a shorter amount of time.

Very good point! All IR had stated was that he seen Deorr there but offered a "no comment" when asked more about it. Food for thought...

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[Purplepixii]

I'm not near a computer at the minute so can't provide links (thus this is only my opinion) but I read something very recently that made me question the statement re no hit by cadaver dogs. It left me with the impression that that statement is untrue. Will try to find links to back up this feeling later.

 

[krig101]

You know, after finding out that Bowerman has been misleading us (or at least, withholding information from us) all along about the parents, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the cadaver dogs did hit the truck, and he just hasn't told us. That would explain why he is so sure the parents know where DeOrr is, and why he mentioned that they searched the vehicle again and again in case they'd missed something.

Wouldn't surprise me either. I've seen it done in other cases. I hope the dogs did pick up a scent that can be used as evidence.

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[giagreen]

i completely agree... they need that little boy's body, and even though they think they did it, unless they get them TALKING then they will be waiting god knows how long to find that child. so name them suspects, have them lawyer up, start them turning against each other. according to DK's lawyer the police were already trying that. now they have legal advice, and the ability to plea down and maybe get a deal for a lighter sentence! i really hope part of that deal would be telling us where that poor baby is!

Have they been charged?

 

[Hoosier952]

But did they check all vehicles including ones that arrived Friday or were only GGP and DKS searched MOO.


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I'm really curious about the vehicles that were at camp the day Deorr went missing. We were told by the sheriff, I believe, that they stopped for diesel the night before. But I thought (rumor) Sr.'s truck at camp was a gas truck. GGP's Suburban was a gas powered vehicle as far as I can tell as well. So why buy diesel? Was there a vehicle swap at some point? Am I mistaken on Sr.'s truck being a gas truck?

 

[neesaki]

Kunz PI Responds to IR Interview

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/kunz-private-investigator-responds-to-reinwand-interview/

Did I hear him correctly? Did he say they'd expanded the time from 17 minutes to 4 hours? Does he mean what I think he means? I don't have time to go back and listen again but will later. TIA

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Did I hear him correctly? Did he say they'd expanded the time from 17 minutes to 4 hours? Does he mean what I think he means? I don't have time to go back and listen again but will later. TIA

I personally think he means that nobody other than the parents have accounted for seeing DeOrr in that time frame. The 17 minutes referred to the amount of time J&D were away from the site and away from Deorr (ie the timeframe in which he went missing). If that timeframe has been expanded to 4 hours it's anyone's guess what happened. IF his body has been hidden it could be anywhere. I suppose it hinges on what time they went to the store and what time they got back (which has never been confirmed) but it seems nobody saw that little boy during or after that trip.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Did I hear him correctly? Did he say they'd expanded the time from 17 minutes to 4 hours? Does he mean what I think he means? I don't have time to go back and listen again but will later. TIA

I took it to mean that the parents had four hours to do something.
My opinion only!

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I wonder what was all on that receipt from the store. Wondering if something pointed toward evidence of a wrong-doing such as bleach, etc. Just wondering and wondering here. It would be crazy to hang onto a receipt such as that but crazier things have happened.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I wonder what was all on that receipt from the store. Wondering if something pointed toward evidence of a wrong-doing such as bleach, etc. Just wondering and wondering here. It would be crazy to hang onto a receipt such as that but crazier things have happened.

Yep, we had a UK case last year (Becky Watts) where the murderer not only kept the receipt, but also asked the shop assistant to check the cost of the circular saw he bought to chop Becky up.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

I just wanted to clear up what Klein meant when he said they were expanding the 17 minutes to 4 hours. On his Facebook page back on January 11th he hosted a public question and answer session which can be found here. Now, remember that this is way before yesterday's announcement in the change of 17 minutes to 4 hours. What is the 17 minutes he is referring to? Here's what I found in that question and answer:

Robin Halsted Fitzgerald It has been said that the parents were off fishing/ exploring anywhere from 10 minutes to 40 minutes. I would assume you have narrowed this timeline. Can you tell us a more definitive amount of time that Deorr jr. was out of their sight? Also, who and exactly where was he left? It has been reported that he was last seen eating a candybar near the fire with grandfather and IR. Were they BOTH there? If he was at the campfire how was there no evidence or scent of his being there?

Klein Investigations and Consulting 17 Minutes as has been already given to the media.

So there you have it, folks.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I just wanted to clear up what Klein meant when he said they were expanding the 17 minutes to 4 hours. On his Facebook page back on January 11th he hosted a public question and answer session which can be found here. Now, remember that this is way before yesterday's announcement in the change of 17 minutes to 4 hours. What is the 17 minutes he is referring to? Here's what I found in that question and answer:

Robin Halsted Fitzgerald It has been said that the parents were off fishing/ exploring anywhere from 10 minutes to 40 minutes. I would assume you have narrowed this timeline. Can you tell us a more definitive amount of time that Deorr jr. was out of their sight? Also, who and exactly where was he left? It has been reported that he was last seen eating a candybar near the fire with grandfather and IR. Were they BOTH there? If he was at the campfire how was there no evidence or scent of his being there?

Klein Investigations and Consulting 17 Minutes as has been already given to the media.

So there you have it, folks.

I never understood 17 minutes. Seventeen? Why not 15 or 20? Seventeen just seems too precise. Did they have a stop watch?

 

[desert-blue]

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/posts/937132659702652

This is from the Q & A session that Mr. Klein held on his FB page on January 11th:

A user wrote:
"It has been said that the parents were off fishing/ exploring anywhere from 10 minutes to 40 minutes. I would assume you have narrowed this timeline. Can you tell us a more definitive amount of time that Deorr jr. was out of their sight? Also, who and exactly where was he left? It has been reported that he was last seen eating a candybar near the fire with grandfather and IR. Were they BOTH there? If he was at the campfire how was there no evidence or scent of his being there?"

Klein responded:
"17 Minutes as has been already given to the media."


Does anyone recall seeing the 17 minutes in the media anywhere? When I read his reponse, I was confused because 17 minutes was not a time that I remember ever hearing before. I've heard 10 minutes, 4 minutes, and some other time ranges, but I just don't remember 17 minutes. It's such an odd amount of time. Maybe that is what DK and JM told Klein and he just assumed it had been reported to the media already?

ETA: sorry for the duplication.... I didn't see the earlier post with the same info until after I posted...

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/posts/937132659702652

This is from the Q & A session that Mr. Klein held on his FB page on January 11th:

A user wrote:
"It has been said that the parents were off fishing/ exploring anywhere from 10 minutes to 40 minutes. I would assume you have narrowed this timeline. Can you tell us a more definitive amount of time that Deorr jr. was out of their sight? Also, who and exactly where was he left? It has been reported that he was last seen eating a candybar near the fire with grandfather and IR. Were they BOTH there? If he was at the campfire how was there no evidence or scent of his being there?"

Klein responded:
"17 Minutes as has been already given to the media."


Does anyone recall seeing the 17 minutes in the media anywhere? When I read his reponse, I was confused because 17 minutes was not a time that I remember ever hearing before. I've heard 10 minutes, 4 minutes, and some other time ranges, but I just don't remember 17 minutes. It's such an odd amount of time. Maybe that is what DK and JM told Klein and he just assumed it had been reported to the media already?

I'm with you - I've never heard of the 17 minute timeframe. In fact, I've heard everything else EXCEPT for 17 minutes. Klein was speaking like it was pretty much public knowledge, though, and to me it seemed he felt like he didn't need to elaborate due to that belief.

 

[krig101]

I wonder what was all on that receipt from the store. Wondering if something pointed toward evidence of a wrong-doing such as bleach, etc. Just wondering and wondering here. It would be crazy to hang onto a receipt such as that but crazier things have happened.

Where did the receipt come from? JM and DK or was it a store copy?

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