ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

[ConcernedCitizenID]

Things are really starting to heat up. This was just posted to Klein's Facebook page:

Comment by Lead Investigator Philip R. Klein :

"Sadly today, Criminal Defense Attorney Allen Browning, who reports himself to be the attorney for Deorr Kunz, appeared today on the Neal Larson Radio Show in Idaho Falls, Idaho. During this interview Mr. Browning made the following statements :
1) Deorr Kunz hired a private investigation firm and paid them lots of money.
2) That Deorr Kunz, to his dismay, has not been given any information about this case.
3) That KIC Texas made a statement regarding the case without even talking to the Mr. Kunz and that is irresponsible.
To insure the record is clear we feel we must respond to Mr. Browning's comments.
1) Deorr Kunz has never hired this firm nor has he paid us any money.
2) Mr. Deorr Kunz is not our client but a witness. We have no obligation to keep him informed.
3) Any statement that we have made publicly has been advised to our client first - to which we have had extended conversations with and updates.
Once again, we urge the public and counsel, not to speak until the facts are clear as this sort of behavor only continues to fan the false flames higher. Please be responsible before making a statement to the public or in social media."

ETA - Here are the two phone interviews with DeOrr's attorney. Does anyone know who exactly hired Klein? Jessica's mother was on social media announcing he had been hired in November, so I figured it was her.

 

[desert-blue]

Where did the receipt come from? JM and DK or was it a store copy?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M[/video]

"We have a receipt that we've documented that they purchased certain items. They were on the receipt, the time was stamped on the receipt, and so we believe ya know that's where they went.
NE: And was that Friday morning?
SB: Yes it was.

I'm not sure if it's been said where the receipt came from. It could have been from the parents, or it could be a copy from the store. Not sure. If it was from the parents and they offered it right up as proof of their store trip, that might seem a little suspect. All speculation though because we don't know how the sheriff acquired it.

 

[Rayemonde]

Where did the receipt come from? JM and DK or was it a store copy?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Don't know...

Nate Eaton:
“Bowerman is opening up about the case that has so many unanswered questions. He says late on Thursday, July 9th, not Friday, Deorr, his parents, great-grandfather and a friend of grandpa named Isaac Renwand arrive at Timber Creek. The next morning Bowerman tells me Deorr goes with his parents to a store in Leadore, about 20 minutes from the camp site.”

“Was there any surveillance captured of this boy, surveillance video?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:28
“I don’t believe they have surveillance, but we have, uh…a receipt that we documented that they purchased certain items. They were on the receipt. The time was stamped on the receipt, and so, we believe, ya’ know, that’s where they went.”

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Media-Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot

 

[pepelepolecat]

Yep, we had a UK case last year (Becky Watts) where the murderer not only kept the receipt, but also asked the shop assistant to check the cost of the circular saw he bought to chop Becky up.

I suppose even brutal murderers have budgets.

If all criminals were smart enough to cover their tracks, LE would be in a terrible pickle. As it is, it seems like many criminals practically leave neon signs over their heads, which is ultimately a good thing.

 

[Arnie M]

Sharing? We have a lot of inconsistencies between the two people who are talking the most. That makes me wonder if one or both are being less than truthful. Bowerman said outright that he (he said we) have not communicated with Klein. Klein goes on to say, not just today but on several occasions, how closely he has worked with LE and that he's never experienced a better working relationship between civilian PI and LE. Their stories just keep changing. I think I know "why", I certainly know the "who" and "what", I just don't know the "where" and "how"! They have both just risen to the top of MY list!

You nailed it , Mr Klein is the king of inconsistencies in a lot of what he says.

I've got nothing against the guy , but listen to him and he often just talks about himself .

Besides he is an outsider in the sense of not having access to information in police files or whatever the sheriff has.

One area he does have an advantage is if there is a timid witness who does not want to go to police they might be willing to talk to a PI off the record. But who could that be ? We know it is not Issac .

 

[Onebest]

Maybe that had something to do with DK hauling up the road to get cell signal? (Referring to cadaver dogs not hitting on scent in truck) We know DK left but did we ever hear him talk about how he got back?

We havent not heard from the parents in the past few days AFAIK, and I doubt we will. I still have a hard time grasping that this was planned. I think they could possibly have been negligent and then the "something" happened especially if the window of opportunity is much larger then we were originally told. If baby Deoor was alone he could have indeed just taken off, died or drowned or just wandered too far especially if it actually was at night. I think its possible the parents got scared, started lying and the more they lied, they more they had to in a effort to protect themselves. Oh what a tangled web? Only now its a bigger mess then they ever imagined. JMO.

 

[Onebest]

You nailed it , Mr Klein is the king of inconsistencies in a lot of what he says.

I've got nothing against the guy , but listen to him and he often just talks about himself .

Besides he is an outsider in the sense of not having access to information in police files or whatever the sheriff has.

One area he does have an advantage is if there is a timid witness who does not want to go to police they might be willing to talk to a PI off the record. But who could that be ? We know it is not Issac .

I am not a big fan and he sure has an ego but I do always hear him acknowledge LE, his team and those that have come forward with information.

 

[neesaki]

He said due to more tips over the past few days & different versions of the timeline that K INVESTIGSTIONS feels that the original 17 minute window the baby was unaccounted for is now more like 4 hours. They hadn't seen the baby in four hours.

So they left him at the campsite with GGP and IR while they went to the store and who knows where. That's how it sounds anyway. Is that what your getting from this?

 

[Rayemonde]

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/posts/937132659702652

This is from the Q & A session that Mr. Klein held on his FB page on January 11th:

A user wrote:
"It has been said that the parents were off fishing/ exploring anywhere from 10 minutes to 40 minutes. I would assume you have narrowed this timeline. Can you tell us a more definitive amount of time that Deorr jr. was out of their sight? Also, who and exactly where was he left? It has been reported that he was last seen eating a candybar near the fire with grandfather and IR. Were they BOTH there? If he was at the campfire how was there no evidence or scent of his being there?"

Klein responded:
"17 Minutes as has been already given to the media."


Does anyone recall seeing the 17 minutes in the media anywhere? When I read his reponse, I was confused because 17 minutes was not a time that I remember ever hearing before. I've heard 10 minutes, 4 minutes, and some other time ranges, but I just don't remember 17 minutes. It's such an odd amount of time. Maybe that is what DK and JM told Klein and he just assumed it had been reported to the media already?

I don't remember 17 minutes being mentioned anywhere... I remember 4 minutes, 10 minutes, and various other times but not 17 minutes.

 

[dtsnyder]

I have lurked on this thread and commented very early on (my family spent a week camping in the general area about 2 weeks after Deorr disappeared).

Someone asked why the parents would make a trip to the store if Deorr was gone. I think it would have been a good cover up for the parents had something happened to him in the middle of the night. Deorr could have already been loaded in the truck and they said they just needed to go to the store for a few things they forgot. They then disposed of his body at some point during the trip.

However, that doesn't make sense if GGP did indeed have eyes on him after the store and when they went exploring.

BUT - they could have returned from the store (without Deorr) and told GGP that Deorr had fallen asleep on the way back and that they either a) left him to sleep in the truck or b) put him in the camper (or whatever they had, maybe tent?). And told GGP to keep an eye out for him if he woke up while they were gone.

At that point they leave and return. Deorr is discovered "missing" by his parents and they say that he just vanished while on GGP watch. But really, he never made it back to the campsite.

Ugh - I hate even thinking about where that poor boy is and why he is gone.

 

[Rayemonde]

So they left him at the campsite with GGP and IR while they went to the store and who knows where. That's how it sounds anyway. Is that what your getting from this?

Or he was already missing or dead when they went to the store. Or maybe only one of the parents went to the store. :dunno:

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I never understood 17 minutes. Seventeen? Why not 15 or 20? Seventeen just seems too precise. Did they have a stop watch?

I also wondered this, but figured it came from the reconstruction J&D did with Vilt (I think?)

<snipped>
Besides he is an outsider in the sense of not having access to information in police files or whatever the sheriff has.

But he is an insider in the sense of having access to the extended family. I'm not sure if it was Jessica's mum who hired Klein, I think I heard it was Deorr's dad. Perhaps both.

Ooops, it's getting bad, because I can't remember what came from sm and what came from MSM and what I've heard here anymore.

I hear ya! The details have been so sketchy and we don't have a definitive timeline, would be useful if this got clarified.

 

[Beezneez]

I think the most concerning thing about the whole 17 min/4 hours statement is this: The accounting of time from this child's mother and father is "less than truthful" enough to create that significant of a discrepancy. That is huge, whatever it ultimately means. Maybe no one but the parents saw him during that time, that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me as to what happened. LE is not laying their cards on the table, this isn't the prosecutors presentation at a trial. This is a heads up to the public that things are not what the family has said & that the investigation is definitely being hindered by this baby's parents. There is just not a good reason or explanation for that as far as I am concerned.

 

[AmyPond]

This is the interview people were saying it looks like they are physically "holding her up?" Yeah...I'm just not seeing that. Just looks like she's sitting with her head down. Sure, he's holding onto her arm. But not holding her up. She's sniffing a lot and seems upset, yes. But no matter what happened...her child is gone, so that's expected. Is she crying because he wandered off and went missing or is she crying because she or her fiance caused him to go missing? Sadly, only a few people know the answer to that.

[video=youtube;wn4dbrrDLjs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn4dbrrDLjs&app=desktop[/video]

 

[neesaki]

He doesn't have to use the exact words, logic would dictate that is his meaning since that is what the 17 minutes was used to describe previously.

Which is why I initially thought and still do (I think !) that he meant it had been four hours since the parents or anyone, had actually seen the baby. Four hours versus 17 minutes. Apples to apples, not oranges. On the other hand, it is possible that I'm completely and absolutely wrong ! :facepalm:

 

[kammiemc]

Four hours? Man, if I wasn't stumped before, I am now. That's ample opportunity for something to have happened to DeOrr while the parents were gone. On the flipside, if DeOrr was with them, he could tens of miles away. Ugh.

 

[Rayemonde]

This is the interview people were saying it looks like they are physically "holding her up?" Yeah...I'm just not seeing that. Just looks like she's sitting with her head down. Sure, he's holding onto her arm. But not holding her up. She's sniffing a lot and seems upset, yes. But no matter what happened...her child is gone, so that's expected. Is she crying because he wandered off and went missing or is she crying because she or her fiance caused him to go missing? Sadly, only a few people know the answer to that.

She's sad because people on Facebook were being mean to her... Seriously, I always thought she refused to speak in that interview because she didn't want anyone to analyse or reverse her speech and use it to say mean things about her.

 

[desert-blue]

Does DeOrr have two black trucks? I've read that he has one that's a diesel and one that runs on gas (or did, at the time of DeOrr's disappearance). Is it possible that something happened Thursday night and he disposed of the body and went to IF and switched trucks and came back to the campground? Maybe that's too far-fetched. I would think IR and/or GGPA might notice the switch... but maybe not?

 

[Hoosier952]

The almost 4 hour change in the timeline is really quite concerning. Even if Klein's witnesses put the parents or the parents and Deorr at the store, that leave a good 2-3 hours unaccounted for. IMO, the 4 hour timeline starts prior to the 911 call. I don't think anyone would be dumb enough to call 911 if they weren't finished covering up a death. There's always the possibility of LE, a CO, park ranger, or S&R workers being far closer to the campsite. I think they'd want all of their ducks in a row before making the call, including getting the story straight. Whether than involved getting GGP and IR on board with the story, I have no idea.

So from approximately 10:30 am to 2:30 pm is anyone's guess. I can't think of any reason why the parents would lie about going to the store, so I'd say there's at least 10 minutes that the parents can be accounted for, likely more if they had to do any waiting for food. If they went to the store at 1 pm like Sr. claims in their first interview, that leaves the biggest gap from 10:30 am to 1 pm + drive time to the store.

 

[Paulas88]

This is the interview people were saying it looks like they are physically "holding her up?" Yeah...I'm just not seeing that. Just looks like she's sitting with her head down. Sure, he's holding onto her arm. But not holding her up. She's sniffing a lot and seems upset, yes. But no matter what happened...her child is gone, so that's expected. Is she crying because he wandered off and went missing or is she crying because she or her fiance caused him to go missing? Sadly, only a few people know the answer to that.

[video=youtube;wn4dbrrDLjs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn4dbrrDLjs&app=desktop[/video]

I know many of you see great dispair in JM, I do not. I see someone afraid to look up, afraid the public will see something in her eyes (like the truth). IDK, seems... especially if your pushing the abduction storyline (although most child abduction end with death) you'd be begging the public for help... IMO.