ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

[EllieBee]

I wonder why. Do we know who the other was made by? That's the first I've heard of it, though I've only just joined WS lately and jumped on this case in the last week. It's easy to miss things when you're so late to the party and catching up! Thanks!
(Eta: I just realized how tacky "late to the party" sounded. I meant it like search party. I swear I'm not a jerk)

Please don't apologize. I have seen that term used many times. As bad as it may sound to someone "driving by", black humor and a little bit of flippancy is sometimes needed to keep ones heart from breaking while discussing these awful cases.

I joined in the spring and the first case I really followed was Noah Thomas and if it weren't for the ladies (and gents) who posted there tossing in the occasional funny or even OT (sorry mods :blush post, it would have been unbearably sad.

But then I come from a family where we celebrate lives and laugh until we cry at funerals. IMO, ya just gotta. :grouphug:

 

[Inthedetails]

So he drove up the road by the resevoir to call 911 because he didnt think Jessica would get a signal and wanted to make sure that the call went through? And then when he called she was already on the line with 911 right? I guess I am just confirming that was the sequence of events right?

Does anyone have a timeline - or could make a timeline - with the facts as we know them? I would volunteer to make one, but my knowledge of the case is flimsy having been away for a long stretch.

 

[CanadianWells]

Please don't apologize. I have seen that term used many times. As bad as it may sound to someone "driving by", black humor and a little bit of flippancy is sometimes needed to keep ones heart from breaking while discussing these awful cases.

I joined in the spring and the first case I really followed was Noah Thomas and if it weren't for the ladies (and gents) who posted there tossing in the occasional funny or even OT (sorry mods :blush post, it would have been unbearably sad.

But then I come from a family where we celebrate lives and laugh until we cry at funerals. IMO, ya just gotta. :grouphug:

yes! You get me. Thanks for that. If it weren't for humour, I'd be nuts by now, and these cases really get right inside my heart and tear it up.

 

[Arnie M]

I've searched and searched, so forgive me if I'm missing this. I'm another who agrees the whole dad speeding away to call 911 is odd, and the idea that there was a sighting of dirty baby Deorr and dad later throws me every time too. Has his 911 call ever been released? I've listened to hers, but I've never found his. I'm interested in hearing it, and also in why it wasn't released (assuming it wasn't).

If I needed to make an emergency 911 call from a remote campsite I would move around until I could get a good cell phone signal . And that is exactly what the father did

If my wife also had a cell phone and made a 911 call it makes sense she would try it right in the area where her child had wandered off. And she did , and she got through to 911 , but if you listen closely her call loses signal several times because of the poor location. The father did the right thing.

If I was the father making the 911 call up on higher ground I would also stay on the phone trying to guide searchers to the area , it would make sense to do that , it was a remote area.

And finally , if there was a cover-up orchestrated by the parents I doubt they would make separate 911 calls ... it would be too risky ... they would first have to spend hours rehearsing what to say.

.

 

[Sillybilly]

Sorry to change direction here but just wanting to respond to a comment in the previous thread about spousal privilege:

According to the following excerpt from the Idaho Rules of Evidence, Rule 504, Husband-Wife Privilege does not apply to criminal cases involving “injury to a child” (or “person residing in the household of either spouse”).

from:
https://webcache.googleusercontent....sc.idaho.gov/ire504+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

(d) Exceptions. There is no privilege under this rule:

(1) Child related communications. In a criminal or civil action or proceeding as to a communication relevant to an issue concerning the physical, mental or emotional condition of or injury to a child, or concerning the welfare of a child including, but not limited to the abuse, abandonment or neglect of a child.

(2) Criminal action. In a criminal action or proceeding in which one spouse is charged with a crime against the person or property of (A) the other spouse, (B) a person residing in the household of either spouse, or (C) a third person committed in the course of committing a crime against the other spouse or a person residing in the household of either spouse.

 

[bessie]

Just for my own little theory here, was anything else ever said about that sighting at the store later that was mentioned in the first interview? As in, did they ever mention looking into it? I've seen nothing on that aside from what little was said in that interview.

This is what Klein had to say regarding the alleged 6:00 P.M. sighting:

RHF Why was the dirty crying child that was supposedly seen at 6:00pm not investigated? If Deorr jr. Was abducted per his parents wouldn't it be important to identify that child's identity?
Like · Reply · 5 · January 11 at 2:08pm


Klein Investigations and Consulting I have no idea regarding this. Staff states that this was a rumor and not fact. If you have a specific witness that saw this please send OL.
Like · Reply · 4 · January 11 at 2:18pm

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/posts/937132659702652

 

[Rayemonde]

Does anyone have a timeline - or could make a timeline - with the facts as we know them? I would volunteer to make one, but my knowledge of the case is flimsy having been away for a long stretch.

I don't think so, because there have been so many different versions of the story, and the family have posted other, more in-depth ones on SM that we aren't allowed to discuss... So it seems kind of pointless. JMO.

 

[Bootsctr]

Were there other campers in the area? Why did the mom think abduction? I know someone asked this earlier, but just wanted to verify the only campers were DK, JM, DKjr, Grandpa, and IR.

I get Grandpa and IR going camping and fishing, but for DK, JM and DKjr to tag along doesn't really make sense to me. When we camped and fished, we also went with another couple who had a kid like we did. It just seems like an odd sort to be camping bedfellows to me!

 

[Rayemonde]

This is what Klein had to say regarding the alleged 6:00 P.M. sighting:

RHF Why was the dirty crying child that was supposedly seen at 6:00pm not investigated? If Deorr jr. Was abducted per his parents wouldn't it be important to identify that child's identity?
Like · Reply · 5 · January 11 at 2:08pm


Klein Investigations and Consulting I have no idea regarding this. Staff states that this was a rumor and not fact. If you have a specific witness that saw this please send OL.
Like · Reply · 4 · January 11 at 2:18pm

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/posts/937132659702652

Oh, that's interesting... So as far as we know, no one actually saw this filthy, bawling boy? That sent up a huge red flag for me, as soon as Bowerman said he thought the clerk wasn't sure she had seen DeOrr at the store... Why say that someone had seen a filthy, bawling boy at the wrong time if no one had...

 

[CanadianWells]

If I needed to make an emergency 911 call from a remote campsite I would move around until I could get a good cell phone signal . And that is exactly what the father did

If my wife also had a cell phone and made a 911 call it makes sense she would try it right in the area where her child had wandered off. And she did , and she got through to 911 , but if you listen closely her call loses signal several times because of the poor location. The father did the right thing.

If I was the father making the 911 call up on higher ground I would also stay on the phone trying to guide searchers to the area , it would make sense to do that , it was a remote area.

And finally , if there was a cover-up orchestrated by the parents I doubt they would make separate 911 calls ... it would be too risky ... they would first have to spend hours rehearsing what to say.

.

yes, I agree that different people would do different things. I can't know what I would do in a situation like this, but I feel fairly certain that It would have played out similarly in my family, with me trying to make the call over bad reception, refusing to leave where I stood looking for my child (and it was very bad, I agree), and my husband taking the time to go elsewhere to get reception. I also agree that my husband would probably have stayed guide people; things like this (different thinking) have caused many fights in our family! Hehe. Everyone's different.

I cant comment on orchestrating a coverup. I'm no expert on that, and I won't pretend to be. I think a coverup of this magnitude would be difficult, and I'm not sure they're the people, nor in the situation to have pulled it off. I'm not sure if you know something or have more experience than I do in this, but I'm not going to take your word on separate 911 calls as law here. I don't really have an opinion on it myself.

I have a rational side, and I have a hunch side, and I let them both have free reign. I do my rational thinking first, and once I've exhausted anywhere I can go with the rational, I let the weird hunches out for a spin, which is what I'm doing right now. I don't expect anyone to follow my hunches, heck even I don't most of the time. Which is why I haven't said a word about what it is! Lol

 

[Rayemonde]

Were there other campers in the area? Why did the mom think abduction? I know someone asked this earlier, but just wanted to verify the only campers were DK, JM, DKjr, Grandpa, and IR.

I get Grandpa and IR going camping and fishing, but for DK, JM and DKjr to tag along doesn't really make sense to me. When we camped and fished, we also went with another couple who had a kid like we did. It just seems like an odd sort to be camping bedfellows to me!

We learned only relatively recently that an older couple was camping in a separate campsite further up the mountain (about half a mile away iirc), but they had been cleared by LE. Bowerman talked about this in his interview with Tricia.

I believe that ggp's health had not been good, and Jessica was acting as a sort of carer for him, and so they went along to keep an eye on him...

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Oh, that's interesting... So as far as we know, no one actually saw this filthy, bawling boy? That sent up a huge red flag for me, as soon as Bowerman said he thought the clerk wasn't sure she had seen DeOrr at the store...

So where did that rumour come from? 6pm Friday wasn't it? I know DK mentioned it in the first filmed interview, so where had he heard it?

 

[ZooSleuth]

I'm wondering if he was referring to Vilt since we were told it was an extended family member that hired Klein.

Bringing this over from the last thread...

He did not name the PI he was talking about but we know it was Klein because he stated in that same answer that the PI recently released a statement yesterday saying they have nothing that contradicts what the sheriff said about the parent's being suspects. That would be Klein's statement.

 

[perfectingpink]

Please don't apologize. I have seen that term used many times. As bad as it may sound to someone "driving by", black humor and a little bit of flippancy is sometimes needed to keep ones heart from breaking while discussing these awful cases.

I joined in the spring and the first case I really followed was Noah Thomas and if it weren't for the ladies (and gents) who posted there tossing in the occasional funny or even OT (sorry mods :blush post, it would have been unbearably sad.

But then I come from a family where we celebrate lives and laugh until we cry at funerals. IMO, ya just gotta. :grouphug:

Funny you mention humor...I was reading one of your posts when my husband walked up behind me, looked and asked, "Whatcha doin'?" I replied, "Reading." and he gave me this funny look. It took me a minute to realize why he would question me; I guess he thought I was looking at naked men....

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Were there other campers in the area? Why did the mom think abduction? I know someone asked this earlier, but just wanted to verify the only campers were DK, JM, DKjr, Grandpa, and IR.

I get Grandpa and IR going camping and fishing, but for DK, JM and DKjr to tag along doesn't really make sense to me. When we camped and fished, we also went with another couple who had a kid like we did. It just seems like an odd sort to be camping bedfellows to me!

We learned only relatively recently that an older couple was camping in a separate campsite further up the mountain (about half a mile away iirc), but they had been cleared by LE. Bowerman talked about this in his interview with Tricia.

I believe that ggp's health had not been good, and Jessica was acting as a sort of carer for him, and so they went along to keep an eye on him...

There was an elderly couple who apparently had family come to visit them at the campground. I had always got the impression it was the same campground, I didn't realise it was so far away.

Jessica's mom stated she asked J&D to accompany Grandpa on the trip. Other family members were due to join them at the weekend.

 

[CanadianWells]

We learned only relatively recently that an older couple was camping in a separate campsite further up the mountain (about half a mile away iirc), but they had been cleared by LE. Bowerman talked about this in his interview with Tricia.

I believe that ggp's health had not been good, and Jessica was acting as a sort of carer for him, and so they went along to keep an eye on him...

Thanks! I was looking for reference to the other campers, as I was sure I'd seen it somewhere lately. I hadn't heard that bit about Jessica acting as carer. I too found it odd that they were all camping together, but my normal is another person's odd, so I sloughed it off.

 

[Rayemonde]

I cant comment on orchestrating a coverup. I'm no expert on that, and I won't pretend to be. I think a coverup of this magnitude would be difficult, and I'm not sure they're the people, nor in the situation to have pulled it off. I'm not sure if you know something or have more experience than I do in this, but I'm not going to take your word on separate 911 calls as law here. I don't really have an opinion on it myself.

Well, IMO it isn't exactly the crime of the century and they have done a poor job of covering it up. DeOrr has not been found just because there are just so many places they could have put him, and they have never managed to get their stories or timeline straight. Put the body somewhere and then just say he disappeared. It didn't take much planning IMO.

 

[Rayemonde]

So where did that rumour come from? 6pm Friday wasn't it? I know DK mentioned it in the first filmed interview, so where had he heard it?

I think they made it up... I'm not sure what they thought it would accomplish, though. It never made any sense to me.

 

[CanadianWells]

Well, IMO it isn't exactly the crime of the century and they have done a poor job of covering it up. DeOrr has not been found just because there are just so many places they could have put him, and they have never managed to get their stories or timeline straight. Put the body somewhere and then just say he disappeared. It didn't take much planning IMO.

Yeah, I don't think 99% of crimes wind up using much planning... If smart people were going to plan out crimes, there would be a lot more rich people out there. Some people get "lucky" and some don't. I definitely lean towards something happened there, and they got lucky, but I have trouble fathoming what. In the end, I could be wrong. I often am.

 

[CanadianWells]

I think they made it up... I'm not sure what they thought it would accomplish, though. It never made any sense to me.

If they did make it up, it was probably to distract, victimize themselves, and point to an abduction. But it didn't work well.