ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

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Rayemonde said:
If he died in the car though, why cover it up?? Babies die in hot cars all the time and the parents rarely get serious punishment if it was an accident. Whereas by hiding the body you risk going down for murder 1.

The only reason I could imagine them covering up a hot car death is if they left him in there for hours whilst they were off doing something illegal, and by the time they checked him it was obvious he has been dead for a long time, so LE wouldn't buy any story about just not checking him for 20 minutes or whatever.

Honest, I am very wary of the drug theory <modsnip>, but I wonder if they are addicts after all. That would explain why they would cover up an accidental death.
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Has it ever been mentioned if they were drug tested?

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krig101 said:
Has it ever been mentioned if they were drug tested?

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Drugs were ruled out, iirc. I'm looking for another link right now, but if no one beats me to a link, I'll get it next

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People keep bringing up a possible hot car death but I know I read somewhere that the temperatures were only in the 60s (highs). I know that it is still possible for a hot car death to happen in the 60s; however given the 4 hour window and timing being before 2:40pm the temps would have been in the low 60s or high 50s at that time. The car wouldn't get much over 100 in those temperatures. It wouldn't be nearly the same as a typical summer day hot car situation where the car reaches 200+ in minutes.

If I am mistaken on the weather for that day then ignore all of this! =P
 
I am still leaning toward shaken baby syndrome, they killed him and knew they would be charged with murder/abuse so they hid the body. It was NO Accident, they would have called 911 for an accident, the only time people wont call 911 is if they know the body is going to contradict their story and they will be facing jail/prison time. Thats the only reasonable explanation I can think of. No hot car, no accident. Yea they probably didnt mean to shake him to death, or punish him to the point of no return but it happens.
 
Rayemonde said:
I wonder why he didn't announce it publically at the time, if he was so sure...
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LE probably told him not too.

Amazed at how much is coming out all at once! What's next?!

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Rayemonde said:
IMO the fact they didn't want a reward, or any publicity, were huge red flags to Vilt. He came into it thinking it was an abduction, and the parents weren't acting like people who had had a kid abducted, and weren't willing to do anything to try and find their son. Moo.
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Why would you not want national attention and or a 20K reward for your child? Were they afraid someone would actually find him? If so, then its almost a guarantee he is not at that camp site..but he could be almost anywhere else around there. If Montana is 45 minutes away then thats an option too. I would be looking in opposite areas from where they say he was.
 
Aeronomy said:
They did have cadaver up there at some point in the week following DeOrr being reported as missing. I'm almost certain they would have hit on the truck if it were still up there then. . . but was it?
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Maybe all this happened BEFORE they got to the campground and they somehow got rid of the truck (Maybe somebody came and met them and swapped trucks??)
 
TeaTime said:
Here's to hoping that Jessica, the mother of the deceased baby, decides to stop all the nonsense and tell SB and the DA what happened and show him where her child's body is located. The smartest thing she can do is to make a deal for her confession and maybe save herself some prison time.

For whatever reason I think she is the least culpable of the two, in that I do not think she is the one that caused DeOrr's death, but she is keeping quiet to protect DK.

Jessica, just put this all to rest now. It is over. The longer you wait, the worse it will get and your baby daddy just might beat you to the confession table to secure a lesser sentence for himself.
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This is how I feel as well. From the first interview, Deorr stole the show and she barely uttered anything. Didn't she "clarify" a couple things for him? This is pure speculation, but I wonder if she was a victim of domestic violence. I say this because I was married to a man for 17 years who was emotionally and physically abusive to me, and occasionally the children, and I felt so down and helpless I was nearly paralyzed. He was a well-liked pillar of the community but nobody knew what was going on behind closed doors. If he and I had been interviewed about ANYTHING, he would've been the one to do virtually almost all the talking. Seems like Jessica couldn't get a word in edgewise. Then, in the interview with them and their relatives on the couch, she was so withdrawn and based on her body language she looked as if she were turning away from Deorr, never mind that she never uttered a word. I wonder if she is usually as passive as she is on camera. In the first interview, she just looks resigned and defeated, as if she knew getting Little Deorr back was a lost cause, because she and Deorr (allegedly) knew exactly what had happened to him. Deorr totally took control of the interview and was lauding the searchers and their fascinating equipment, with barely a plea or much mention of his son. Jessica seemed to be there only to make her statement about Deorr's blanky and cup. I think it's more than a case of introvert/extrovert. I think Deorr Sr was the one who did something to Deorr, because she just seems too passive and he talked nonstop. I would have liked to see how she answered the questions that were asked of Deorr Sr.

Again, based only on my experience, I believe domestic violence may play a strong part of this case. The perpetrator can be so controlling. They can even **** with your mind to the point that the victim may even start to believe, while being intimidated, what was reality and what was not. Controlling you and messing with your mind can do horrible things to a victim of abuse.

And of course, if this is the case, Deorr may not have had qualms about doling physical punishment to his young son. And maybe that played a part in Little Deorr's demise, and subsequent cover-up. I pray this was not the case. In any case, no matter how he (likely) died, I and probably most everyone who has followed the case have shed tears over this little boy, and I hope justice is swift, although I don't think any justice will ever be enough. :(

MOO
 
cluciano63 said:
I am always a bit confused when LE announces their suspicions before they can make an arrest, as in the case of Teresa's husband, as well as this case. I suppose it is a method of applying pressure, also maybe to explain why they may need to stop searching for now. But it does seem to bring out the worst in the public and kind of does away with any idea of innocent until proven otherwise, from a court of public opinion standpoint.

But I have felt the story (stories?) given by the parents was fishy from the start. I hope the pressure works and a confession is forthcoming soon, though this could have the opposite effect and everyone may just stop talking at all. Anyway...jmo.
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I believe the Sheriff and his department were under a tremendous amount of pressure to "solve" this case, and then with the numerous phone calls he was getting from the public regarding if the family was trustworthy enough to donate to bring home "little man", that I actually feel he announced that the parents were indeed suspects in the disappearance of DeOrr. In a way, it takes some of the pressure off of him and the department. It's disappointing that he made the announcement when apparently there is not enough evidence (DeOrr's remains) to charge the parents. I don't know how they would determine at this point and time how death occurred because I'm sure there is not enough left to determine much. I think this will end the parents' talking, even though the sheriff did state they were still answering his phone calls.

I hope I am 100% wrong too!
 
slashkiss said:
People keep bringing up a possible hot car death but I know I read somewhere that the temperatures were only in the 60s (highs). I know that it is still possible for a hot car death to happen in the 60s; however given the 4 hour window and timing being before 2:40pm the temps would have been in the low 60s or high 50s at that time. The car wouldn't get much over 100 in those temperatures. It wouldn't be nearly the same as a typical summer day hot car situation where the car reaches 200+ in minutes.

If I am mistaken on the weather for that day then ignore all of this! =P
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If it was a sunny day, the truck could have heated up to 100 degrees. With the dark interiors (presumably? since it was a black truck?), it could have happened fairly quickly, and he was dressed in fleece, making it harder for his body to cool off. It's been in the 20s/30s where I live, but my driveway is in full sun. Even though my car is light in color, the car is warm enough that I don't need a coat when I first get in it. That's solely due to the sun + glass.

This is about pets, but more importantly, it shows how car temps can get much warmer than we think much more quickly than we'd imagine. http://www.accuweather.com/en/weath...-60-degrees-is-too-hot-for-pets-in-cars/19368

Consider this nothing more than a psa. Given all the information of the past day or so, I'm afraid whatever is going to come out is going to be bad either way.
 
slashkiss said:
People keep bringing up a possible hot car death but I know I read somewhere that the temperatures were only in the 60s (highs). I know that it is still possible for a hot car death to happen in the 60s; however given the 4 hour window and timing being before 2:40pm the temps would have been in the low 60s or high 50s at that time. The car wouldn't get much over 100 in those temperatures. It wouldn't be nearly the same as a typical summer day hot car situation where the car reaches 200+ in minutes.

If I am mistaken on the weather for that day then ignore all of this! =P
Click to expand...

I don't know where the weather data is coming from - is this the actual high temperature at Timber Creek Campground or at Leadore or somewhere else? The elevation at the campground is pretty high, so it would be even cooler there (if the weather data is from somewhere lower, like Leadore). Regardless, I am not sure it was hot enough for him to have died in the car.... can two-year-olds unbuckle their car seats and get out of the car on their own? (It's been awhile since I had a two-year-old but my recollection is that they're pretty clever at such things...).
 
I dont think the dying in the vehicle occured. The dogs did not hit on the car and from what someone said they would have if he had even been dead only a little while in there. I did search the weather for that day I forget exactly where it was in location to where they were but close and it was like low to mid sixties, some people found weather stating as high as 70 ish but that would not have been at the actual campground, meaning it was most likely cooler even than this at the camp ground. Either way, yes it could probably get hot enough for that to happen in a closed car with the sun beating down, but I don't think that was the case, as stated previously that no dogs hit on the scent of death in the vehicles as far as I know.
 
VLM said:
I have been lurking but have not posted since I shared my experience with mud/rain boots and the ease at which they can slip off a child's feet:) Seems like forever ago.
A thought occurred to me when reading another post about the possibility of DK disposing of the baby when he "hauled" off to call 911. Could he have contacted JM, by text or call, to let her know he had finished the deed and it was time to call 911? Idk, I suppose he knew he would have about 45 min after the calls were made. It just seems risky to for him to assume he could be done before LE arrived. What if they were in the area? I don't neccessarily buy into this scenario, just trying to make sense out of the senseless.
Another, random thought, when NE asked IR if he knew how GGP was doing, IIRC, his reply was that GGP was not well and is now on oxygen. Wasn't there a time when it was discussed that GGP was on oxygen while camping?
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I don't recall if GGP was on oxygen during the camping trip, only IR's interview answer regarding how his friend was doing and that he was on oxygen.

It doesn't make sense to me, if GGP was already on oxygen while camping, and JM already being a carer for him, for her to leave GGP and DeOrr and IR alone while JM and DK Sr make a store run. A 2 y/o needs to be watched by someone who can catch the child should he decide to run off, even if father thinks there was no where for him to go, there was a flowing creek right there.

Water safety is important at any age, but is especially crucial if you have babies or toddlers in your home. Drowning can happen very quickly and in less than 1 inch (2.5 centimeters) of water, so filled bathtubs, swimming pools, wading pools, hot tubs, and even buckets of water and sinks can be dangerous.
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http://kidshealth.org/parent/firstaid_safe/home/safety_drowning.html

Pool submersions involving children happen quickly and silently, with most child drowning victims missing from sight for less than 5 minutes.

Most childhood drowning deaths occur when the parent or caregiver becomes distracted by the telephone, doorbell or chores around the home.

Children can drown in a matter of seconds. If a child is missing, check the water first.

•Children must always be supervised by an adult when playing in or around water.

Each year children drown in bathtubs, buckets, coolers, ponds, ditches, fountains, hot tubs, toilets, pet water bowls and wading pools.
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http://www.ounce.org/drownings.html
 
ClaireNC said:
I think I agree with you on this. At least today. I still go back and forth on which one seems more guilty. The way DK rambled in that first interview has me confused. In that interview it seemed like he was lying and she was mad at him. IMO Or it could be that she was being sheepish and he was lying to cover for her... Oh I'm so confused.
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To me, it seemed like he was controlling the conversation. He was talking so fast and so hard as if he was trying not to let anyone get a word in edgewise and otherwise don't ask him any real hard questions because we only want the focus on DeOrr and not us because we only took our eyes off of him for 10 minutes or 17 minutes (wth!) and be sure and not let JM answer any questions because she doesn't know anything and I was running the whole search for DeOrr and just the people who were searching were just wonderful and ...............

JMO!
 
wow, I can't believe these 2 would get two different investigators and think they could outsmart both law enforcement and the P.I.'s. To tell people they hired the P.I. when in fact he was doing it out of pocket, did they not think that the investigator would fund out? Also profiting off of this tragic situation is so sickening. I hope they have to return every donation or be taken to court by each donor. What a level of narcissism.

And to refuse to have the case go national? Well, IMO I don't think the parents should have any control over that, it should have been made national and the P.I. should have offered the 20,000 reward regardless of what the parents wanted. And Maybe they will never be charged, but eventually, like O.J. Simpson, they will probably ultimately end up in jail for a different crime. And the way they have been treated by their own community has been bad from the beginning...now I believe they will be completely shunned in every way.

And in the slim chance they are innocent of Deorr's disappearance, I hope they are charged with lying to the FBI, fraud, and obstruction of justice.

If the law fails they still have to deal with karma or God.
 
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