ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

[SeriouslySearching]

It would prevent them being FORCED to, but they could do so voluntarily. I also do not know if that privilege would start the day they married, and exclude events that occurred sooner.

Another parent who made ti plain he did not want his child, and whose child subsequently died, was Justin Ross Harriss (baby Cooper).

There is no spousal privilege when it comes to injury or death of a child. Period.

 

[mrjitty]

I think it happens in a lot of cases. Like A LOT a lot. I think it is a normal investigation tactic. Or even just standard emotional intelligence stuff. They're trying to get information to find out what happened. You get more flies with honey...

If you read the McCann case files you will see that the first responding officers harboured doubts yet the parents were not questioned under caution for months.

Quite apart from anything else, no one wants to be the Police Officer who wrongly arrests the parents in a high profile case!

Career over!

There is a lot of incentive to wait for the body to turn up.

Furthermore (and being cynical) as it currently stands the case can stay filed under missing persons.

Do the police have much incentive to want to turn it into a murder case?

 

[Rayemonde]

If you read the McCann case files you will see that the first responding officers harboured doubts yet the parents were not questioned under caution for months.

Quite apart from anything else, no one wants to be the Police Officer who wrongly arrests the parents in a high profile case!

Career over!

Yeah, I think most LE are very careful about this sort of thing these days... They don't want another Jonbenet Ramsey type of situation were the parents just lawyer up and start suing everyone.

 

[Rayemonde]

Did he say above reproach? Seriously asking because I don't remember that. I remember him saying solid but I also remember the Noah Thomas case also where the exact same thing happened. I'm not understanding the problem here as it is done quite often as evidenced by just the few examples given. :thinking:IMO

No, he never said "above reproach".

JMO but I never thought "solid" meant innocent or cleared in any way... Solid could just mean they're sticking together and sticking to their story that Deorr just vanished.

 

[Rayemonde]

He did say it would be nice if the public could stop the innuendo and give the parents some peace, which is what happened on websleuths. I thought he was referring to the strange backwards people who actually showed up at the searches to cause trouble and harass the family.

 

[Rayemonde]

July 16th article:

"We've interviewed the family, and the information they've provided us - my office, myself - we're good with that," he said. "And I know there's a lot of innuendo out on social media and a lot of stuff going out there and it would be nice if it would stop and let them have a little peace. They're solid."

All speculation at this time is not positive to our investigation, however, we will continue to look and will direct our investigation to include all possibilities, at a later time.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/deorr-kunz-missing-family/30239047/

 

[bessie]

Have a problem with the rules? Read them before you complain. Then pm an administrator.

[h=1]Etiquette & Information[/h]

 

[Rayemonde]

It is a FACT that he wrote and sent the letter. According to Mr. Vilt. Doesn't make it "fact".
It is also a FACT that the was pillaged by a relative about the time they retained him. This is 3rd hand information. Supposedly, the fund raiser told Vernal; Vernal told Mr. Vilt; Mr. Vilt is relaying that information to the public. Not a "fact".
It is FACT that he was never paid. Again, according to Mr. Vilt. Not a "fact".
It is FACT that JESSICA was the one who did not want national publicity. I've never heard this one. Do you have a link? Has Jessica confirmed this? Is there a second source to confirm that she said this? Or is this just more supposition from Mr. Vilt?

FACT: "a real occurrence, something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed".
"Facts" are not based on opinion. "Facts" can be proven.

IMO, this is why this case is so screwed up - people are assuming that all opinions given equate to "facts". Everything that I've seen written or said about this case is supposition, innuendo, opinion, etc, even those coming from LE and the PIs. NOTHING that "we" have seen has been proven as fact! That will only occur in a court of law.

I am really distressed at the number of people who want so much to believe that little Deorr died a horrible, painful death, especially when their theory has his last moments witnessing his parents doing that something horrible to him. I will NOT entertain this scenario until there is proof of it from a reliable source (hasn't happened!). I will NOT believe it until real and conclusive evidence is proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. IMHO!!!

Yeah, I agree that those thing are not proven facts.

I strongly disagree that anyone here *wants* to believe that DeOrr suffered a painful death...

 

[ZooSleuth]

I often wonder if its cell phone evidence....??

Unless you're talking about the cellphone itself, I don't believe cell phone records, and ping data would fall into the category of physical evidence. The article ILOKAL linked does not give any examples of physical evidence that are intangible, such as data, so those would fall under a different category of evidence IMO.

 

[1&2&3]

What do you believe it to mean that DK has hired a lawyer and JM has not?

As a couple, this seems odd that only one of them has lawyered up. I would imagine DK's lawyer would tell him to quit discussing the case/situation with JM. To be a couple and share everything, this would definitely put a wall up between them.
How do you live together during this crisis, yet cannot discuss it?

My reasoning on this is that the two of them don't agree on the story now that it is coming down to reality of facing the consequences.

Or since DK is the talker, the spinner, was it decided he would go to a lawyer and share the information with JM? He may want to keep her from talking as long as possible, yet get some legal advice.

Any ideas? Where are our helpful lawyers?

 

[AbbeyBabbey]

I strongly disagree that anyone here *wants* to believe that DeOrr suffered a painful death...

<snipped>
Oh.
I've read all kinds of opinions/theories about gunshot wound, beatings, strangulation, suffocation, intentional drowning, hot-car death, shaken baby syndrome, car death, violent death before arrival at campsite, etc. My mind won't even go there without some conclusive proof.

 

[CanSleuth]

If Deorr died/disappeared closer to 10:30am than to 2:30pm it would explain why only one diaper was found at the camp and why the dogs couldn't get a strong scent. I think Deorr's family arrived at the campsite somewhere around 9:30pm on Thursday night. Deorr may have already been fast asleep in the truck, and left inside for the night.

Commonsense would prevail that his diaper would have been changed when they woke up Friday morning (thus creating the one used diaper that was disposed of by JM's mom). This would be when ggpa and/or IR would witness Deorr at the camp site. Has it ever been reported what time the family got up, or what they did first thing in the morning? Breakfast? Set up camp?

The 'incident' may have happened almost first thing in the morning. Based on the dogs tracking to the river I think Deorr wandered down there unsupervised and drown. Maybe the parents were drunk/drugged/hung over from the night before. JM or DKsr found his body in the creek/reservoir and hid him in the truck just long enough to concoct the story about needing to go 'as a family' to town for feminine supplies. This was probably a ruse to leave so soon as just arriving. I mean what woman would pack for a camp trip without supplies, just in case, especially knowing the nearest store is 45 minutes away, and why bother calling your mom to tell her about it? I think JM confessed to her mom in the call and asked her to hurry to the campsite (she got there before LE/Search & Rescue).

I think JM and Deorr Sr then drove somewhere 'on the mountain' to find a spot to bury Deorr before going into the store to make a purchase that would give the impression that the baby was still alive and hungry for fries, hence producing a receipt as part of their alibi. After getting the receipt they headed back to the campsite to work on their cover up and eventually call 911. I'm not sure how it could be possible that ggpa and IR would not be aware of the situation, so perhaps they are involved in the cover up, but I don't think either one is directly involved in the disappearance.

Evening all (said in my best cockney copper accent). Trying to catch up so apologies if I've missed anything. Just want to throw my two penneth in:




Almost definitely. I think SB put out the "solid" statement to lull them into a false sense of security and then watched/waited to see what they did in the hope they'd lead them to DeOrr.



Just a general observation about the ashes / cremains (what a horrible word!). Is this reservoir used for providing water to homes? Drinking water? I can't imagine why anyone would think dumping ashes in a reservoir would be acceptable!



This is what I think - the 4 hours is from DeOrr was last seen by anyone other than the parents. This could be Grandpa / IR / any other witness. I am reckoning this was around 10:30am and the 911 calls were at around 2:30pm.



I wonder if this prompted Kleins "we know HOW" statement.

 

[SoccerMotha]

It is a FACT that he wrote and sent the letter. According to Mr. Vilt. Doesn't make it "fact".
It is also a FACT that the was pillaged by a relative about the time they retained him. This is 3rd hand information. Supposedly, the fund raiser told Vernal; Vernal told Mr. Vilt; Mr. Vilt is relaying that information to the public. Not a "fact".
It is FACT that he was never paid. Again, according to Mr. Vilt. Not a "fact".
It is FACT that JESSICA was the one who did not want national publicity. I've never heard this one. Do you have a link? Has Jessica confirmed this? Is there a second source to confirm that she said this? Or is this just more supposition from Mr. Vilt?

FACT: "a real occurrence, something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed".
"Facts" are not based on opinion. "Facts" can be proven.

IMO, this is why this case is so screwed up - people are assuming that all opinions given equate to "facts". Everything that I've seen written or said about this case is supposition, innuendo, opinion, etc, even those coming from LE and the PIs. NOTHING that "we" have seen has been proven as fact! That will only occur in a court of law.

I am really distressed at the number of people who want so much to believe that little Deorr died a horrible, painful death, especially when their theory has his last moments witnessing his parents doing that something horrible to him. I will NOT entertain this scenario until there is proof of it from a reliable source (hasn't happened!). I will NOT believe it until real and conclusive evidence is proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. IMHO!!!

I'm with you in a sense that I've not seen or heard one thing that is proof of anything other than he wandered off, I'm still hoping this is the case anyway. I know the parents have been named suspects, and I trust LE has more than what they are saying to take that stance. Still though, it's hard for me to imagine any scenario in which parents harm their child because I will never be able to understand parents hurting their children and or not being their voice when they need them to be, although it happens far too often.

 

[Rayemonde]

We'd all love to believe that DeOrr is living a lovely life with a lovely family somewhere, but we are being realistic. Sadly, I don't believe it and I want his body to be found so he can he laid to rest with respect, and I want justice for DeOrr.

 

[Rayemonde]

I'm with you in a sense that I've not seen or heard one thing that is proof of anything other than he wandered off, I'm still hoping this is the case anyway. I know the parents have been named suspects, and I trust LE has more than what they are saying to take that stance. Still though, it's hard for me to imagine any scenario in which parents harm their child because I will never be able to understand parents hurting their children and or not being their voice when they need them to be, although it happens far too often.

Wandering away or being taken by an animal would be particularly horrible deaths, IMO

 

[SoccerMotha]

If Deorr died/disappeared closer to 10:30am than to 2:30pm it would explain why only one diaper was found at the camp and why the dogs couldn't get a strong scent. I think Deorr's family arrived at the campsite somewhere around 9:30pm on Thursday night. Deorr may have already been fast asleep in the truck, and left inside for the night.

Commonsense would prevail that his diaper would have been changed when they woke up Friday morning (thus creating the one used diaper that was disposed of by JM's mom). This would be when ggpa and/or IR would witness Deorr at the camp site. Has it ever been reported what time the family got up, or what they did first thing in the morning? Breakfast? Set up camp?

The 'incident' may have happened almost first thing in the morning. Based on the dogs tracking to the river I think Deorr wandered down there unsupervised and drown. Maybe the parents were drunk/drugged/hung over from the night before. JM or DKsr found his body in the creek/reservoir and hid him in the truck just long enough to concoct the story about needing to go 'as a family' to town for feminine supplies. This was probably a ruse to leave so soon as just arriving. I mean what woman would pack for a camp trip without supplies, just in case, especially knowing the nearest store is 45 minutes away, and why bother calling your mom to tell her about it? I think JM confessed to her mom in the call and asked her to hurry to the campsite (she got there before LE/Search & Rescue).

I think JM and Deorr Sr then drove somewhere 'on the mountain' to find a spot to bury Deorr before going into the store to make a purchase that would give the impression that the baby was still alive and hungry for fries, hence producing a receipt as part of their alibi. After getting the receipt they headed back to the campsite to work on their cover up and eventually call 911. I'm not sure how it could be possible that ggpa and IR would not be aware of the situation, so perhaps they are involved in the cover up, but I don't think either one is directly involved in the disappearance.

This was always one of my theories, but what I cannot figure is why they covered it up, other than being afraid of the consequences for negligence. Also a problem for me, how does someone remain calm enough to pull this off? You've just discovered your son has drowned and you race to pull off some cover up? I just cannot get around that to make this my #1 theory.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I am really distressed at the number of people who want so much to believe that little Deorr died a horrible, painful death, especially when their theory has his last moments witnessing his parents doing that something horrible to him. I will NOT entertain this scenario until there is proof of it from a reliable source (hasn't happened!). I will NOT believe it until real and conclusive evidence is proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. IMHO!!!

rbsm

I respectfully disagree. I suspect the vast majority of us -- even those who looked askance at the parents right from the start -- wanted this case to have a happy ending. Even those who believed the worst of the parents most likely wanted desperately to be proven wrong. I cannot imagine the average person WANTING to believe that any baby died an awful death and certainly not at the hands of his parents. It's horrifying and tragic. I hope whatever did happen (no matter what it was) happened quickly and as painlessly as possible for his sake.

Purely my opinion, and I do not intend to speak for everyone.

 

[SoccerMotha]

Wandering away or being taken by an animal would be particularly horrible deaths, IMO

Oh sure, I agree. And it's all bad all the way around, I just hate the thought of the lil guy's parents being the hand in it.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Search dogs are good. But never put your faith into them. They are trained to get and follow a scent. But since the mother always handled Deorr and his clothes and toys. Then why didn't the dogs keep going back to the mother?

I truly think the search dogs are good sometimes. But they are not a reliable means for the most part. Jmo.

 

[Dee10]

Trip to the store - Food for thought

Bowerman said they left for the store at 10:30 to 11:00 with it taking approx. 45 min. to get there.

If it were 10:30 it would put the arrival time at 11:15 which does not make sense if the receipt was at 12:00.

If it were 11:00, they would arrive at 11:45 which would make more sense.

I'm sure a clerk would remember if they claimed they were there for approx. 45 mins. in such a small store. Maybe if the bathroom was used as well.