ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #18

[AmyPond]

Speaking of car seats, at what age/weight can a child be front-facing? The one pic of baby in a car seat shows him facing front.

In most states, you can LEGALLY turn a child to forward face at 1 year old. Some states, it's age 2.

However, the SAFEST thing to do is keep them rear facing as long as possible. The closer you can get to age 4, the better.

 

[ILOKAL]

Stress can make memory problems worse. I'm sure ggp felt extremely stressed when his Great grandson disappeared, and when he was being questioned by LE and the Fbi...

Does your "stress can make memory problems worse" apply to everyone, or is it just as to GGPA?

 

[Dee10]

The sheriff seems to be reallllllllly cautious. He said he doesn't want to say something then have to come back and apologize for if was wrong. It's true that we don't know exactly what happened, but Klein has been a little bit more forthcoming on that he believes he knows what happened. It "seems" like they are still unclear whether is was an accident or intentional. We don't know everything, but we know WAY more than we knew a thousand posts ago. We have suspects. And every scenario has been ruled out that doesn't require their involvement. That is HUGE.

So true!

[FONT=&amp]1/25/2016 - http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crime...ance/79301014/ [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]"Their statements don't match, and it's frustrating because we have absolutely no idea where DeOrr is," Bowerman says. "There have been so many inconsistencies that it's hard to tell the truth from everything they've said."

[/FONT][FONT=&amp] "Bowerman and Lemhi County Chief Deputy Steve Penner were in Idaho Falls all weekend working with Bonneville County Sheriff detectives and FBI agents."

Got to give them credit for working extremely hard & not giving up; assuming he just got lost or an animal took him.
[/FONT]

 

[ILOKAL]

That comment took me by surprise because they have been named as suspects.

IIRC either SB or Klein said charges are imminent they just hadn't settled on which charges (I imagine murder vs manslaughter vs negligence) and Klein said he thinks they know how but not why, then how could they still have no clue? Maybe SB should read our posts after all bcuz we have a million plausible theories, lol. MOO.

But I was a little bummed to hear him say that.

Actually, Bowerman said the filing of charges was not imminent.

 

[Mountaingazer]

Does your "stress can make memory problems worse" apply to everyone, or is it just as to GGPA?

If they had preceeding memory problems then yes. So far we have only been told that GGPA had a memory problem.

 

[bluesneakers]

Does your "stress can make memory problems worse" apply to everyone, or is it just as to GGPA?

It applies to everyone.

 

[bluesneakers]

my theory is that during those three hours JM/DK were disposing of evidence and little Deorr's body. I believe that is why DK decided to haul butt down the mountain to get better reception to call 911. He was disposing of evidence. imo.

This is what I think too.

Maybe they got back from the store, possibly talked to IR and GGP, then DK went for the drive, disposing, hiding, and then they both called 911.

I also think it's possible they told GGP and IR that DeOrr was asleep in the truck when they got back.

 

[Rayemonde]

The sheriff seems to be reallllllllly cautious. He said he doesn't want to say something then have to come back and apologize for if was wrong. It's true that we don't know exactly what happened, but Klein has been a little bit more forthcoming on that he believes he knows what happened. It "seems" like they are still unclear whether is was an accident or intentional. We don't know everything, but we know WAY more than we knew a thousand posts ago. We have suspects. And every scenario has been ruled out that doesn't require their involvement. That is HUGE.

I agree. It's just the way he talks, imo - very understated and cautious. That's why he comes across as so humble - he makes it sound as though he doesn't know anything. But I think he has a very good idea of what happened, just not exactly where DeOrr is to be found. JMO.

 

[relay]

I don't think I've ever heard it said that IR saw DK alive when they came back from the store. IIRC IR just said that he saw him at the campground, not when.

So IMO something must've happened on the way to or from the store. I said it before and I'll say it again, if it was in fact DK was the filthy crying baby at the store, they may have accidentally disciplined him too far on the way back to the campsite.

I'm starting to wonder if VDK stayed with JM until the 911 call was complete and LE had told them it would be a while before they got there, then he hauled back down the road to cover up evidence and once he was done placed a 911 call to cover why he drove down the road. I still haven't released his 911 caller said what time it was made, so this is definitely a possibility.

What's interesting though is that LE must've given them an estimate of time for them to arrive, there's no way the parents could've known it would take a couple of hours for anybody to get there.

I'm wondering if they weren't in a daze after returning from the store because something happened on the way to or from the store. Then said let's try and play it off and distract IR and GGP and then say went missing. I don't know, the stupid timeline is what makes everything so questionable!

I just know that the tone of voice on the 911 call is not consistent with a mother who just lost her two-year-old. I would've been hysterical. And her demeanor during the interview was absolutely bizarre. His answers and rambling on about the search team and praising them was equally bizarre. In my opinion, they have not acted in anyway consistent with parents who have lost their little boy.

BBM

Per Tricia's interview with Sheriff Bowerman:

17:24
TG: One of our questions has to do with when was Deorr last seen by Isaac. Isaac was one of the friends at the campground. Is there any way to determine when Isaac last saw Deorr?

17:34
SB: Well, you know he’s probably been the most consistent of all the witnesses on his interviews that have been more consistent than anybody else. Then he claims that they came back shortly around 1:00 or shortly thereafter and that was the last time that he saw him.

The only thing is that I don't know if anyone can factually state that IR was being truthful or not when he answered that question. I get the sense that Sheriff Bowerman may believe him, and I trust and respect Sheriff Bowerman. So I'm leaning toward's believing IR's statement that IR last saw Deorr at approximately 1:10PM. I just can't consider it fact, however.

 

[CanSleuth]

Is anyone here knowledgeable about brain injuries, hematoma and swelling? One can sustain a brain injury without a bleeding cut on the head being present. (JonBenet history lesson.) I suppose the length of time to death from untreated swelling due to the force of the blunt trauma would differ from case to case, huh? It could appear that someone is fine at first but death could still follow.

Yes, true. I'm not knowledgeable about brain injuries from a medical standpoint, but from a personal one. A few years back my 93 year old grandma fell in the bathroom at night. She thought she was fine but went to the doctor the next morning for a general checkup. The doctor declared her in perfect health and even told her she had many more years to live. Within 24 hours of that appointment she started slurring her speech, and within hours of that was in the hospital diagnosed with a massive brain bleed related to hitting her head when she fell. She died within hours. From the time of her injury to her death was about 36 hours.

It is possible that Deorr suffered a head injury (accidentally or through abuse) before the camp trip even started, or near the beginning of the journey. He may have slowly deteriorated. The only reason I can think to cover it up would be because it was not caused by an accident.

 

[ILOKAL]

Ahhh...
So, even though he is trying to be 'nice' and whatnot, he DOES come right out and say they FAILED those two questions. Thank you for re-posting this. Now maybe we can do away with the word dancing around less than truthful.
Point blank, they FAILED those two questions. Not the whole poly, but indeed those two very CRUCIAL two questions.

*****SB: You know I dwelled on that fact for a long time but I have to trust the experts. They say when both peoplefailed the same questions multiple times, there is something there and they’re being less than truthful, so I have to trust the experts.*****

You can fail questions and not fail the exam, which happened in this case, four times. That's why their tests came back inconclusive. They did not FAIL their polygraphs. Everything is based on the control questions and how they are answered. Call it word dancing or whatever you want. Bowerman has not said they failed their polygraphs because they didn't. The specific words "less than truthful" (not MY words - HIS words) are used for a specific reason. <modsnip>

 

[Rayemonde]

If they had preceeding memory problems then yes. So far we have only been told that GGPA had a memory problem.

Yeah... I actually had dementia in mind, but we don't know that he has dementia. If it's dementia, the person has good days and bad days and I don't think it's unrealistic that he could be driving to a campsite one day and then be unable to remember exactly what happened to DeOrr the next day. Plus people with dementia will often be able to drive safely, but risk forgetting where they are going halfway there... In which case it would make perfect sense for the family to "allow" ggp to drive but want to accompany him there.

Plus, there are all different kinds of dementia, plus we do ln't know for sure he has dementia or some other memory problem... So I'm going to trust what SB says about him. As ggp of DeOrr, he still a victim in this case, after all.

 

[Dee10]

I agree. It's just the way he talks, imo - very understated and cautious. That's why he comes across as so humble - he makes it sound as though he doesn't know anything. But I think he has a very good idea of what happened, just not exactly where DeOrr is to be found. JMO.

Yes, he wants his ducks in a row, he has already talked to prosecutors. His needs the cell phone evidence finished + evidence that was sent away this week. He also is asking to hear lst hand from anyone that has observed or overhead unusual interactions between either parent and Deorr. He has a lot of patience and seems to keep the focus on Deorr, finding him and justice.

Frankly a month ago, I did not believe this case would be solved, but I do now.

 

[Rayemonde]

You can fail questions and not fail the exam, which happened in this case, four times. That's why their tests came back inconclusive. They did not FAIL their polygraphs. Everything is based on the control questions and how they are answered. Call it word dancing or whatever you want. Bowerman has not said they failed their polygraphs because they didn't. The specific words "less than truthful" (not MY words - HIS words) are used for a specific reason. You just can't not notice that.

Yeah... They just failed questions like "do you know where DeOrr is" but passed the trivial stuff, imo. Not every word they said was a lie, but what they said about DeOrr's disappearance was a lie. They lied about what happened to DeOrr.

 

[Rayemonde]

Yes, he wants his ducks in a row, he has already talked to prosecutors. His needs the cell phone evidence finished + evidence that was sent away this week. He also is asking to hear lst hand from anyone that has observed or overhead unusual interactions between either parent and Deorr. He has a lot of patients and seems to keep the focus on Deorr, finding him and justice.

Frankly a month ago, I did not believe this case would be solved, but I do now.

Me too!! :jail: :jail:

 

[Little Ol Me]

Just a few of my random thoughts.

I haven't heard any facts yet that convince me that the parents, or any of the 4 POI's are involved in the disappearance of Deorr,...so I'm still stuck on that fence.

I have great respect for L.E., not so much polygraphs.
I would expect that the parents would definitely experience physical reactions to the questions, do you know what happened to Deorr, or where he is. No mater what happened to him, they HAVE to be experiencing tremendous guilt.
Although, I'm sure the experts account for that. Even so, it doesn't change the outcome.

I think a lot of what has been said in the last week or so is L.E. applying pressure to the POI, especially the parents. No problem with that, I hope it helps further this case.

 

[Lilibet]

I don't see it that way... IMO someone with dementia might be less than forthcoming because they are trying to hide the fact that they can't remember something... They might be evasive or reluctant to answer a question because they are trying to hide the fact that they don't remember, or they might agree with you or make up an answer to a question because they are embarrassed by the fact that they can't remember something and they don't want to admit that they don't know. I got the impression that's the kind of thing that SB meant. And as far as we know, the fbi behavioural analysts haven't given any indication that ggp knows what happened to DeOrr.

BBM

OT: Your post about what a person with dementia might do reminds me of a funny story about my Mom around age 88. This was before we realized early dementia was an issue. She lived in a retirement community in independent living. Every year the residents were checked out to make sure they still could remember basic things. During one of these tests shortly after George W. Bush was elected president, she was asked who was president and she couldn't remember in the moment. She HATED Bush with a passion, so her excuse to the tester was that she was sooooo upset that he was president she had blocked his name from her memory! She did manage to come up with his name later in the test, so she passed. My Mom was a clever woman LOL.

The point being, people who are having memory issues (dementia or not) can be very determined to cover it up any way they can.

 

[Aeronomy]

You can fail questions and not fail the exam, which happened in this case, four times. That's why their tests came back inconclusive. They did not FAIL their polygraphs. Everything is based on the control questions and how they are answered. Call it word dancing or whatever you want. Bowerman has not said they failed their polygraphs because they didn't. The specific words "less than truthful" (not MY words - HIS words) are used for a specific reason. You just can't not notice that.

I think we all notice that and it's just that some of us believe the sheriff was censoring for the sake of the investigation.

Surely they didn't fail every question. No doubt they were asked if DeOrr was there son. I imagine they passed that question. I also think there were other questions they were not being truthful about the sheriff did not bring up for the sake of the investigation and to not cause a greater uproar amongst the public.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Yeah. But they aren't expensive.

Actually, one advertised online was used and selling for $33,000. It all depends on what is added on.

I've just about stopped commenting anymore because I have no idea what happened but do think the parents both know. I'm good with just reading!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...-know-how-were-just-trying-to-figure-out-why/
DEORR INVESTIGATOR: I THINK WE KNOW &#8216;HOW,&#8217; WE&#8217;RE JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT &#8216;WHY&#8217;

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/isaac-reinwand-i-had-nothing-to-do-with-deorrs-disappearance/
ISAAC REINWAND: I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH DEORR&#8217;S DISAPPEARANCE