ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[4senthia]

If you will forward this video to approx 4:20ish til 5:00, you will hear and see Deorr's dad explain how they left the boy w/his grandpa. I get that he means this is Deorr's ggp.
[video=youtube;yIA0NvCxrRE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIA0NvCxrRE[/video]

so sad to see all the land and space there...jmo

 

[Morag]

With regards to the EMT bag: I don't find it unusual that someone would have one along on a camping trip. Yes, most of us have first aid kits, either purchased or assembled, but you can purchase a pretty well-supplied EMT bag for $50 or so, and if I were camping with children, I would certainly have one. Maybe the EMT bag is missing? What else would make an EMT bag of interest in this case?

 

[IDTater]

I just can't get on board with a quick silent animal attack that took him away at 2pm. This is just very unlikely. Now if he wandered off and got lost for hours then possibly an animal attack could make more sense but I would think that with everyone out there looking for this little guy he would have responded to the calls if he was able to. My daughter is fiesty and independent but I can remember countless times the look of panic and her screaming "mom" when she would realize she lost sight of me especially in an unfamiliar area. I honestly think that whatever happened to this baby was quick and the creek just makes the most practical sense. Having said that my suspicion would next fall to the last 2 people seen with the child and that isn't his parents; however if the timeline of the parents only being gone for 10 minutes is accurate (which I personally find myself doubting) I just don't see how any person would have the ability to disappear this child so quickly.

I tend to think that if there was animal involvement, it's like you theorize - getting lost and then attacked versus an animal coming to the site and snatching him. The big "but" for me in this scenario, though, is that by the time he was likely to have been attacked by a predator, there was presumably a big uptick in human activity in the area. I would imagine that the increase in human activity would scare away predators. Although searchers did mention seeing wolves, notoriously anti-social creatures, preying on deer at some point during the search so maybe the yelling and movement wouldn't dissuade an attack.

 

[desert-blue]

The sister made a comment on the FB page of Channel 8 KIFI that the reason they were at that campground is because it's her grandpa's favorite place to camp. I assume that means her grandpa would be quite familiar with the area. In the interview, the parents (well, dad, since he did most of the talking) seemed very unfamiliar with the area - the dad said he'd never been there before and that was part of why they were so panicked when they couldn't find the baby. Seems odd to me.

 

[gliving]

Interesting article about mountain lion sightings in Idaho near Boise.

http://www.mtexpress.com/news/envir...cle_14decaf6-9cf0-11e4-98f4-478e617c74dc.html

"Numerous mountain lion sightings in recent weeks have led wildlife officials to warn valley residents about the dangers they could pose.
Mountain lions can reach well over 100 pounds and take down prey more than five times their size. In recent years, mountain lions have killed numerous domesticated animals in the Wood River Valley, including llamas."

"Royse said officers have responded to numerous calls about mountain lions in recent weeks, from the town of Triumph to the Deer Creek neighborhood. He said cougars typically feed on mule deer, but that when times are tough they will seek easier prey.
“Most of the mule deer wintering range is down around the towns,” he said. “Yearling cats that have been pushed away by their mothers now have to fend for themselves. If they get desperate for a meal, they could eat cat or dog food that has been left out, or the cat or dog. So we are asking people to keep their animals and their food inside at night.”

 

[Hatfield]

I just can't get on board with a quick silent animal attack that took him away at 2pm. This is just very unlikely. Now if he wandered off and got lost for hours then possibly an animal attack could make more sense but I would think that with everyone out there looking for this little guy he would have responded to the calls if he was able to. My daughter is fiesty and independent but I can remember countless times the look of panic and her screaming "mom" when she would realize she lost sight of me especially in an unfamiliar area. I honestly think that whatever happened to this baby was quick and the creek just makes the most practical sense. Having said that my suspicion would next fall to the last 2 people seen with the child and that isn't his parents; however if the timeline of the parents only being gone for 10 minutes is accurate (which I personally find myself doubting) I just don't see how any person would have the ability to disappear this child so quickly.

The boy may have never been at the campsite if the mixup happened before they got to the campsite.

Assuming 2 cars were driven and assuming the boy was sometimes allowed to go with Greatgrandpa and Friend. Maybe the mixup happened at the store or even before they left.

They may have arranged to meet there.

So a scenerio could be when the parents get there they immediately want to explore the area and think the Friend and Grandpa have the little guy and visaversa.

Especially if a tent was setup the parents could have thought the boy was sleeping in the tent or maybe the other vehicle but the mixup had already happened before they got there.

 

[4senthia]

With regards to the EMT bag: I don't find it unusual that someone would have one along on a camping trip. Yes, most of us have first aid kits, either purchased or assembled, but you can purchase a pretty well-supplied EMT bag for $50 or so, and if I were camping with children, I would certainly have one. Maybe the EMT bag is missing? What else would make an EMT bag of interest in this case?

I don't have kids and I carry one in my vehicle.
About the EMT bag potentially missing, that's a great morsel to ponder.
Especially depending on what was in it (if anything) besides bandages etc.
Hearing that the elder ggp isn't in the best health, perhaps it even contained scripts. IDK
Thanks for the thought!
JMO

 

[Hatfield]

I tend to think that if there was animal involvement, it's like you theorize - getting lost and then attacked versus an animal coming to the site and snatching him. The big "but" for me in this scenario, though, is that by the time he was likely to have been attacked by a predator, there was presumably a big uptick in human activity in the area. I would imagine that the increase in human activity would scare away predators. Although searchers did mention seeing wolves, notoriously anti-social creatures, preying on deer at some point during the search so maybe the yelling and movement wouldn't dissuade an attack.

I think wild animals also like to hang around campsites to scavange for leftovers too. I think there could have been more chance of some predator wildlife being close to the campsites because they may have gotten trained into knowing food is always left behind.

 

[JDauxa]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up, but when dad says "He was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire" I paused. He says "campfire" not campsite. Was there a fire burning when the parents went exploring? I noticed in the video the there is metal sheeting surrounding the fire pit. How deep is it? What if DeOrr fell in and nobody could see him fallen in the fire pit. I am sick to my stomach writing that. But it would explain his scent only at the camp site, and no sign of any articles of his clothing/shoes. They need to sift through the pit!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JLSChook]

With respect to the boots DeOrr was apparently wearing, if I recall correctly they were described as "camouflage boots". How large would boots for a toddler be ... meaning, how "tall" -- maybe 6 or 8 inches? Seems to me that even if they fell off his feet, they would be hard to spot whether in the creek or in the woods because they were "camouflage" and likely not very large items.

ITA! This obsession with the boots is getting a bit out of hand, IMO.
If DeOrr did drown in the water, the boots could have very easily filled up with water and formed some kind of suction to his feet/ankles/legs and could very well still be on him.

The word "oversized" is throwing people, I think. It's not like they were a size 14 in men or anything.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up, but when dad says "He was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire" I paused. He says "campfire" not campsite. Was there a fire burning when the parents went exploring? I noticed in the video the there is metal sheeting surrounding the fire pit. How deep is it? What if DeOrr fell in and nobody could see him fallen in the fire pit. I am sick to my stomach writing that. But it would explain his scent only at the camp site, and no sign of any articles of his clothing/shoes. They need to sift through the pit!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm no expert on fire but think time and heat needed would make that impossible?

 

[IDTater]

With regards to the EMT bag: I don't find it unusual that someone would have one along on a camping trip. Yes, most of us have first aid kits, either purchased or assembled, but you can purchase a pretty well-supplied EMT bag for $50 or so, and if I were camping with children, I would certainly have one. Maybe the EMT bag is missing? What else would make an EMT bag of interest in this case?

Ok, I just started questioning my own parenting abilities since I camp all the time with my kiddos, one of which had to be airlifted from a camp after an accident, and I carry what I refer to as a first aid kit! A quick Google search of the type of bag you are talking about leads me to believe that what I carry would likely be referred to as an EMT bag by a lot of people. I've seen bags that include airway management, from naso/oropharyngeal tubes to ET tubes, which is more along the lines of what I would consider an EMT bag. Again, as a nurse with emergency experience, I'm fully willing to admit that nomenclature may be responsible for this bit of information causing me fits!

 

[Hatfield]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up, but when dad says "He was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire" I paused. He says "campfire" not campsite. Was there a fire burning when the parents went exploring? I noticed in the video the there is metal sheeting surrounding the fire pit. How deep is it? What if DeOrr fell in and nobody could see him fallen in the fire pit. I am sick to my stomach writing that. But it would explain his scent only at the camp site, and no sign of any articles of his clothing/shoes. They need to sift through the pit!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are usually not deep at all. The metal is just to protect the hot embers from the wind so the campers dont start a forest fire when the wind kicks up. It also limits the size of the campfire because restrictions dont want people building huge barnfires when camping.

It could have caused a terrible deadly accident though but he would have been found.

 

[Mickshawn]

~~That's a great thought. I know when I'm walking with my dogs, sometimes they slow down and come to a complete halt and will not go any further....They seem "worried" about something probably that they smell...I always respect it. We live in a very rural area, too.

OH, and one thing I want to add before I go - perhaps dogs will quit following a scent if cougar scent is added to the scene. I'm not sure, but I believe some dogs are afraid of the big cats and will not go there.

MOO[/QUOTE]

 

[4senthia]

Yeah when I think of a real EMT bag I guess I'm thinking of an ambulance sort of "go bag", not a normal first aid kit.
jmo

 

[IDTater]

Interesting article about mountain lion sightings in Idaho near Boise.

http://www.mtexpress.com/news/envir...cle_14decaf6-9cf0-11e4-98f4-478e617c74dc.html

"Numerous mountain lion sightings in recent weeks have led wildlife officials to warn valley residents about the dangers they could pose.
Mountain lions can reach well over 100 pounds and take down prey more than five times their size. In recent years, mountain lions have killed numerous domesticated animals in the Wood River Valley, including llamas."

"Royse said officers have responded to numerous calls about mountain lions in recent weeks, from the town of Triumph to the Deer Creek neighborhood. He said cougars typically feed on mule deer, but that when times are tough they will seek easier prey.
“Most of the mule deer wintering range is down around the towns,” he said. “Yearling cats that have been pushed away by their mothers now have to fend for themselves. If they get desperate for a meal, they could eat cat or dog food that has been left out, or the cat or dog. So we are asking people to keep their animals and their food inside at night.”

The particular article you posted is referring to mountain lion sightings in the Wood River Valley (Sun Valley/Hailey) versus Boise but the exact same thing happens in Boise (as well as other parts of Idaho). In both areas, you have civilization butting up against nature. There are rivers running through, providing a wildlife "highway" into developed areas where invariably there are human/pet and wildlife interactions. But once you get away from towns, especially into NF area, there is just so much land that it's easy for wildlife to avoid people. I'm more likely to see wildlife recreating on the edge of town than I am up camping in the forest.

 

[pdxmama]

I know I keep repeating myself, but Deorr was wearing oversized boots and the boots definitely would have fallen and been found if the cougar carried him away. The boots really limit the plausible scenarios

I don't think we can state definitively that the boots would have fallen off. Possibly yes, maybe even likely but to say that they DEFINITELY would have fallen off is a stretch.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[Hatfield]

~~That's a great thought. I know when I'm walking with my dogs, sometimes they slow down and come to a complete halt and will not go any further....They seem "worried" about something probably that they smell...I always respect it. We live in a very rural area, too.

(ADDED.....i think Trident left this part)
OH, and one thing I want to add before I go - perhaps dogs will quit following a scent if cougar scent is added to the scene. I'm not sure, but I believe some dogs are afraid of the big cats and will not go there.

MOO

That is a really good point. If search dogs were on the trail of the little boy and immediately hit on smells of a Cougar maybe dogs would not follow. I never even considered that but sounds logical.

 

[lauriej]

http://newsradio1310.com/twin-falls-county-to-help-in-search-of-missing-toddler/?trackback=tsmclip

Twin Falls County to Help in Search of Missing Toddler

--snip

Twin Falls County Sheriff Tom Carter is sending Chief Deputy Don Newman, Lt. Daron Brown, Sgt. Dave Benefiel, and Sgt. Jake Benson will be traveling early Wednesday. They will be taking two drones, a Razor, and two 4-wheelers to use in the search.

Newman and Benefiel will be piloting the drones, Benson has a good knowledge of the search area, and Lt. Brown’s has vast experience leading search and rescue efforts.

 

[Morag]

Yeah when I think of a real EMT bag I guess I'm thinking of an ambulance sort of "go bag", not a normal first aid kit.
jmo

OT, but my son works at a remote amphitheatre in Colorado during the summer. I noticed on my credit card bill (yes) that he had purchased a large EMT bag. He said, Mom, it would take an hour for help to get here, so I need to be prepared.


Three weeks later, he came across a crime scene (woman had bashed in her boyfriend's head, blood and brains all over). My son called the sheriff, applied pressure, bandaged the guy's wounds and kept him alive until the ambulance arrived. After brain surgery, the victim recovered. He's not an emt, but he's the only person at the venue who's willing to treat burns, cuts, etc.