ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[giagreen]

Klein's timeline begins at 8am.
Perhaps someone from the upper campground remember hearing a truck starting at 8 am. I'm sure the sound of the engine firing would echo through that little valley?

There are a lot of roads and trails in the area. I think JM and VDK took a "scenic" tour on the way to the store in Leadore Friday morning. Maybe their trip to town began at 8 am?

This is the best map I've found that shows the Leadore Ranger District.

Grandpa Walton had previously camped at Stone Reservoir. I wonder if JM had ever been camping there?

Or maybe the other campers seen DeOrr? It was said they had their children who visited and don't they have to drive past their campsite to get to the other one?

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[bessie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like it was in the timeline, but not important to the prosecution. Which says to me that Deorr was there. The part that confuses me is Klein says the timeline begins at 8 am Friday. It sounds like he's contradicting himself to me.

Didn't we have a lengthy discussion about this the other night?

Thursday night is part of the overall timeline. Klein's working timeline -- the window when relevant events occurred -- is 8 a.m.-2:26 p.m. It evolved from 17 minutes to four hours, and now 6.5 hours, as new witnesss have come forward. JMO

 

[TeaTime]

I agree that you are likely correct, but to be honest, I can't safely assume it! They traveled in different vehicles. It was evening. Who knows if GGP saw him. Or if he can recall for sure. My poor papa has failing mental abilities--still drives (don't get me started) and wouldn't be able to remember or state with any certainty who he saw when. If I suggested to him something happened on a certain date, he would agree with me.


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No, no, I am referring to GP Kunz, VDK's dad, not GGP, JM's GP.

GP Kunz has all his mental faculties and last I read they all lived with him.

 

[TeaTime]

Then why would he say that Thursday night is part of the timeline? But it has nothing to do with prosecution. That tells me that Deorr was with them Thursday night.

I don't know why he said at 8 am--, that sounds like the last time someone definitively saw Deorr, in the flesh.

I agree, since Klein has the Thursday stop at the restaurant/bar in Leadore accounted for on his timeline and the questionable time doesn't start until 8am Friday, it tells me that someone saw the baby in Leadore on Thursday and probably at the R&B.

 

[gliving]

Didn't we have a lengthy discussion about this the other night?

Thursday night is part of the overall timeline. Klein's working timeline -- the window when relevant events occurred -- is 8 a.m.-2:26 p.m. It evolved from 17 minutes to four hours, and now 6.5 hours, as new witnesss have come forward. JMO

When I check Klein's facebook page, the visitors posts, a person asks about the Silver Dollar visit July 9 and Klein responds: "This goes to timeline therefore we cannot answer." Feb 4.

I'm so confused. Has he extended his timeline? Thank you.

 

[desert-blue]

When I check Klein's facebook page, the visitors posts, a person asks about the Silver Dollar visit July 9 and Klein responds: "This goes to timeline therefore we cannot answer." Feb 4.

I'm so confused. Has he extended his timeline? Thank you.

The visitor post asks whether DeOrr was also at the Silver Dollar and he won't answer that.... ugh

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

The visitor post asks whether DeOrr was also at the Silver Dollar and he won't answer that.... ugh

He was using the 'any or all' in the original question to answer it. So in theory it could only be one of the adults that went to the SD and it have nothing to do with what happened?

Or I'm just confusing myself.

 

[Rayemonde]

AFAIK Klein has never defined what he means by "timeline". His use of the term seems to change, and SB seems to think he means something different than we do.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

Great post, misshissy. I've said the same thing in these threads. For us, camping is not something that we need to plan in advance. We've also gone camping with multi-generations from infants to great-grandparents.

There are a lot of things they did and said that are not nefarious but when they end up as suspects in their own missing childs case, then everything becomes suspect. Jmo

 

[desert-blue]

He was using the 'any or all' in the original question to answer it. So in theory it could only be one of the adults that went to the SD and it have nothing to do with what happened?

Or I'm just confusing myself.

Yes that's true. It doesn't mean all four adults were there - could have been one, two, three, or four....


The visitor post came later and reads:

Mr Klein and team, thank you all so much for all your ongoing hard work and dedication. helping families during what is for sure thee most difficult and heart wrenching times of their life is beyond admirable. There is one question in particular that recently went unanswered and Mr klein stated it was not in the timeline so I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. Was deorr with his family at Silver Dollar restaurant on July 9th? If so did he seem in good health and spirit's?

His response:
This goes to timeline therefore we cannot answer.


ETA: It sounds like anything to do with a sighting of DeOrr is being held back. He is fine admitting that "any or all" of the adults were there but won't comment when asked about DeOrr. The reasons for that are unclear to me....

 

[persimmon]

Well, what evidence do we have to go on to form an opinion about whether DeOrr was ever at the campsite or not?

For:

Bowerman says he thinks he was there
Klein says he thinks he was there (or at least "on the mountain")
IR said he was there, and gave a definite "Yes" in his interview with Nate
Someone at the store and at the gas station said they may have seen a child with DeOrr's parents
Grandma said she threw a dirty diaper away when she arrived to help search


Against:

In all this time, not one family member or friend has said publically exactly when they last saw DeOrr before the trip, despite people asking
Bowerman is not 100% certain DeOrr was there, and there are no 100% definite sightings of DeOrr on the trip
SB and Klein will not say when Deorr was last seen before the trip, which seems a little evasive (moo)
The dogs didn't find anything definite


What else?

For: TC said in an earlier interview that her father was watching DeOrr turned away for a second, turned back and he was gone. This is my paraphrase.

The dogs did alert a few times and early on I recall that the dogs kept circling back so to speak to the campsite. It seemed as though he hadn't left that immediate area.

 

[persimmon]

Can someone tell me the signifigance of the trip to the Silver Dollar other than establishing the timeline? I feel like I missed something regarding that stop and there has been much said about it the past few days.
Thanks

 

[Tssiemer]

Whether Deorr was there/alive.


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[giagreen]

For: TC said in an earlier interview that her father was watching DeOrr turned away for a second, turned back and he was gone. This is my paraphrase.

The dogs did alert a few times and early on I recall that the dogs kept circling back so to speak to the campsite. It seemed as though he hadn't left that immediate area.

I didn't know TC did an interview. I want to see it. Do you have a link?

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[renarde]

I didn't know TC did an interview. I want to see it. Do you have a link?

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"My dad was standing there watching him and he turned his head and then (Deorr) was gone,” Clegg said. “It appears like he just vanished.”

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/grandma-of-missing-2-year-old-he-just-vanished/

 

[giagreen]

"My dad was standing there watching him and he turned his head and then (Deorr) was gone,” Clegg said. “It appears like he just vanished.”

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/grandma-of-missing-2-year-old-he-just-vanished/

Thanks Renarde. I thought it was a video one which would be nice.

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[carbuff]

It's okay to do that spontaneous, no question here. BUT you were a family with mother/father/children, I think. You were not: 1 elderly half-ill man, 2 parents with toddler, 1 stranger (to 3 of the others, friend only to 1). IF then comes to addition of this odd constellation a parent who perhaps "called in sick" for one day, I would imagine: it wasn't an impulsive weekend trip because of gorgeous weather but an urgent need to go to a deserted camping ground far away from home.

Well, we were two not-young not-old (grand)parents, me and my two-year-old, and sometimes my brother and his friend, who we didn't know well. So quite a range. In my experience, that's typical of camping groups in the Rockies; it's a companionable event.

I am not saying it makes the parents innocent. Just that I don't see any obvious red flags in the situation.

 

[TanTanWawa]

I think Idaho Falls police has a bit of a reputation for manipulating folks into false confessions, and it was a good idea for IR to lawyer up. At first I thought he might be hiding something, but after watching his interview, I think he has some issues that would make him a very bad liar, not someone capable of coming up with an elaborate plan. He just may be the best witness.

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[Jackeee]

It's been mentioned a few times that the parents, GGP and IR may have been drinking at the Silver Dollar. I don't see them as drinking buddies in a bar, but I can see them sitting around the campfire just having a few and talking. Did they only go to the bar to buy alcohol to take back to camp? I don't know what the liquor laws are there.
We used to do a lot of camping, and after driving 2 or 3 hours to get to the campsite and setting up, there's no way we would head to the nearest bar to drink, especially with kids. We would all be looking forward to getting the fire going and hanging out. Occasionally we would have to go back to the nearby town to pick up a few things; beer, chips or something we suddenly thought was important, which could have been anything with 2 young boys. (I don't mean beer for the boys, lol).
As to what happened to baby Deorr, I just don't know and my heart still hurts as much as when I learned he was missing.

 

[TanTanWawa]

There is still no solid proof that a crime took place. No blood, no body, no marks on anyone. .. for all we know, the baby was left unsupervised, for whatever reason, and he fell in the reservior. Unless they completely drain the reservior, we can't be sure he wasn't missed in the search. We've had bones turn up 20+ years after boating accidents where divers searched extensively. I would hate to see this family be falsely accused because they aren't very sophisticated. Time will tell.

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