ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[carbuff]

I think Penner is using "family" loosely there. Family group.

 

[SashaFinch]

Hello all. I've just joined this site but i've been reading DeOrr's threads for a while. I live in Idaho and was in eastern Idaho last summer, so I'd heard about it right from the beginning. I have a little boy, he's just turned 4, who looks similar to DeOrr, shaggy blonde hair, cheeky little smile, etc. This case has tugged at my heart from the beginning. I've never really followed an investigation like this and I'm grateful I found you all. I don't have any theories to add, but I think you guys are doing great.

I didn't think I'd ever pray that a child had been abducted, but that's the only was little DeOrr could still be alive. I hope he's out there somewhere and being taken care of. I know SB has said that it's been all but ruled out, but I'll continue to hope.

raying:

 

[Inthedetails]

Hello all. I've just joined this site but i've been reading DeOrr's threads for a while. I live in Idaho and was in eastern Idaho last summer, so I'd heard about it right from the beginning. I have a little boy, he's just turned 4, who looks similar to DeOrr, shaggy blonde hair, cheeky little smile, etc. This case has tugged at my heart from the beginning. I've never really followed an investigation like this and I'm grateful I found you all. I don't have any theories to add, but I think you guys are doing great.

I didn't think I'd ever pray that a child had been abducted, but that's the only was little DeOrr could still be alive. I hope he's out there somewhere and being taken care of. I know SB has said that it's been all but ruled out, but I'll continue to hope.

raying:

Welcome to Websleuths.

 

[neesaki]

Hello all. I've just joined this site but i've been reading DeOrr's threads for a while. I live in Idaho and was in eastern Idaho last summer, so I'd heard about it right from the beginning. I have a little boy, he's just turned 4, who looks similar to DeOrr, shaggy blonde hair, cheeky little smile, etc. This case has tugged at my heart from the beginning. I've never really followed an investigation like this and I'm grateful I found you all. I don't have any theories to add, but I think you guys are doing great.

I didn't think I'd ever pray that a child had been abducted, but that's the only was little DeOrr could still be alive. I hope he's out there somewhere and being taken care of. I know SB has said that it's been all but ruled out, but I'll continue to hope.

raying:

Glad you've joined us SashaFinch! Welcome to Websleuths! :welcome:

 

[Beezneez]

Hello all. I've just joined this site but i've been reading DeOrr's threads for a while. I live in Idaho and was in eastern Idaho last summer, so I'd heard about it right from the beginning. I have a little boy, he's just turned 4, who looks similar to DeOrr, shaggy blonde hair, cheeky little smile, etc. This case has tugged at my heart from the beginning. I've never really followed an investigation like this and I'm grateful I found you all. I don't have any theories to add, but I think you guys are doing great.

I didn't think I'd ever pray that a child had been abducted, but that's the only was little DeOrr could still be alive. I hope he's out there somewhere and being taken care of. I know SB has said that it's been all but ruled out, but I'll continue to hope.

raying:

Welcome fellow Idahoan! There are a few of us on this board.

 

[persimmon]

I think Penner is using "family" loosely there. Family group.

I agree...I think IR is included in that answer. But, strange the way NG asks again after verifying there was a non family member and receives the answer only to drop it. Regardless, I agree. This case is frustrating and it seems we are spinning our wheels.

 

[Blue Skies]

I was thinking about the boots last night. I can't imagine responsible parents putting their small child (or any age child) in shoes or boots that are too large (or too small) and expecting them to walk safely and without damaging growing feet. I don't care how poor you are or how much a child LOVES certain shoes. Who does that?!! I hope it's another "less than truthful" comment.
JMO

I've been thinking this, but was reluctant to say it. I find it neglectful in itself, especially for a toddler. I can see buying shoes maybe 1/2 size too big for growing room, but 2-3 sizes? I sometimes slip my husband's shoes on (2-3 sizes too big) just to walk to the car and I can barely even hold them on my feet. I can't imagine having to walk like that all the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Not sure about Idaho law, but in California those type of legal documents and proceedings are not public. I have not heard that rumor myself but I know her ex husband supported her early in this case. I have no idea if that has changed but he was even a part of the search group in the first week. There is a short interview on youtube with the ex discussing the situation. I only bring that up because it seems to indirectly contradict the notion she lost custody due to abuse. They are still friends and he appeared genuine in his concern and efforts. I imagine he has been questioned more than once about JM.
Jmo....I may be off here but throwing it out.

bbm

I was also very surprised to read the report on the Internet, but I did. It didn't fit into the ongoing thread at that time so I didn't post. Now I'm searching for it, I can't find as I said. I found the report in connection with the public report of IR, same database.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Btw:

If the parents are answering questions "less than truthful" then maybe they were NOT unknown to IR??

 

[TeaTime]

For anyone to steal the EMT bag, they would have to know: 1) that there was such a thing to be had; 2) that it was in the locked EMT vehicle and not on a site; 3) what it looks like. I doubt most people would recognize the bag because MOST people have never been in an ambulance or rescued by EMT's and MOST people have no idea what can be found inside or how to use it if they had it. So, it is more likely someone in the SAR business.

I don't know how much these things are worth but for the right amount of money, someone might just leave the EMT vehicle unlocked and a bag inside. Insurance will pay. It would be like stealing a great camera but not to take photos right away.

There were 300 searchers. Many search teams. The parents were not allowed within the perimeter. Odds are it was a searcher. Actually it is 150 to 1, searcher/parent.

I would like to know if VDK had a 4 wheeler up at the campsite on Thursday and Friday prior to the disappearance. The one I saw them on is said to belong to a BIL but, perhaps it was borrowed by VDK for the trip and was there from the start? Does anyone know, definitively?

I think you may be on to something important about Penner's response to NG's question. Perhaps it was exactly what NG meant and exactly what Penner meant, which taken very literally would mean that IR never saw DeOrr at all. What did IR say in his interview? He doesn't trust people so much anymore?

 

[LaLaw2000]

It's interesting to me that in all of the many many photos I've seen of Deorr, I've never seen one where he's wearing his beloved boots.

View attachment 88689

These look like white velcro fastening sneakers.

gliving, do you know when this pic was taken? I absolutely do not like how JM is looking at DeOrr!

TIA!

ETA: If you blow the pic up you can see that the tennis shoes do have laces that are eother untied or loosely tied.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Okay, I've been here from the beginning and had gotten sidetracked by some other cases. I have finally caught up now.

My theory is pure speculation and not based on facts or anything in the media. I think DeOrr was passed off to someone who was to meet the parents at Leadore; not at the campsite, but at Leadore. Reason? Hoax to get or raise money, to sell DeOrr, or to keep him out of sight while he recovered from abuse or injuries that could not be explained.

In the above post I asked when that pic was taken. Does anyone know where it was taken or how long before he disappeared? The parents have been named as suspects so I feel I can say again that I do not like how JM is cutting her eyes sideways looking at DeOrr with absolutely no emotion showing on her face. IMO, it isn't like a mother looks at her child unless she is disgusted with him/her. I did say IMO.

That is my honest theory until or unless different facts come to light.

GB this precious little guy and those who love him that had nothing to do with his disappearance.

 

[PainExpress]

gliving, do you know when this pic was taken? I absolutely do not like how JM is looking at DeOrr!

TIA!

ETA: If you blow the pic up you can see that the tennis shoes do have laces that are eother untied or loosely tied.

The body language is interesting

 

[Purplepixii]

In the above post I asked when that pic was taken. Does anyone know where it was taken or how long before he disappeared? The parents have been named as suspects so I feel I can say again that I do not like how JM is cutting her eyes sideways looking at DeOrr with absolutely no emotion showing on her face. IMO, it isn't like a mother looks at her child unless she is disgusted with him/her. I did say IMO.

Respectfully snipped by me.

I agree that the way JM is looking at DeOrr is not particularly pleasant but I don't think we should read too much into it - there are countless other photo's of them together, and DeOrr alone where he looks like a normal happy toddler. I think it's unfortunate that this photo was taken at the time that it was but can all mothers here honestly put their hand on their heart & say they have never looked at their child in anything other than a loving way? I know if I am honest I can't - however my daughter is alive & well and in her late teens & I love her very much. I have no doubt in saying that there are probably times I glanced at her in a similar fashion to the image in question - I'm just lucky nobody took a photo of it!

JMO

 

[Karinna]

Your observation assumes that the parents did, in fact, leave DeOrr with GGP and IR.

Based on the parents' inconsistencies and discrepancies that the sheriff has asserted, I don't think we can simply believe that they left DeOrr with GGP & IR. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Unless and until there's some evidence beyond the parents' say-so on that matter, I don't give it any validity.

Based on what the sheriff has reported about the parents' ever-changing stories, at this point, I have to throw out everything the parents have said. Start from scratch with just physical evidence and facts reported by other, more reliable witnesses. If the parents claimed something that is independently verifiable by physical evidence or by other, more reliable witnesses, then it probably happened. But if the only "evidence" of something is what the parents claim, then throw it out. That means the fishing, the minnows, leaving him with GGP for his nap, the cowboy boots, the "looking back," the "watching until I figured out he was gone," the "hauling" down the road, the 20 minutes of searching ... all of it.

I understand what you're saying, but i don't think everything Deorr's parents have stated are lies per the polygraph results which were "inconclusive". And then again how reliable are polygraphs anyway?
Also in regard to Deorr being abused i think maybe the best person to answer that question would be JM's ex partner that has custody of their children and maybe even the GGP that said Deorr was his little buddy, and that Deorr would have a nap with his GGP. They at least would of been in close proximity to JM's parenting of her children wouldn't they?

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

Hello all. I've just joined this site but i've been reading DeOrr's threads for a while. I live in Idaho and was in eastern Idaho last summer, so I'd heard about it right from the beginning. I have a little boy, he's just turned 4, who looks similar to DeOrr, shaggy blonde hair, cheeky little smile, etc. This case has tugged at my heart from the beginning. I've never really followed an investigation like this and I'm grateful I found you all. I don't have any theories to add, but I think you guys are doing great.

I didn't think I'd ever pray that a child had been abducted, but that's the only was little DeOrr could still be alive. I hope he's out there somewhere and being taken care of. I know SB has said that it's been all but ruled out, but I'll continue to hope.

raying:

Welcome! I'm another Idahoan, from Boise to be exact.

 

[Paulas88]

Not sure about Idaho law, but in California those type of legal documents and proceedings are not public. I have not heard that rumor myself but I know her ex husband supported her early in this case. I have no idea if that has changed but he was even a part of the search group in the first week. There is a short interview on youtube with the ex discussing the situation. I only bring that up because it seems to indirectly contradict the notion she lost custody due to abuse. They are still friends and he appeared genuine in his concern and efforts. I imagine he has been questioned more than once about JM.
Jmo....I may be off here but throwing it out.

Im sorry, I've been looking for above YouTube interview, and can't seem to find. Link please

 

[Hatfield]

Just checking in to say that I do read and catch up here often and will keep checking back here until case is solved.

The other day we all discussed a lot of good theories and I cant think of anything else that isn't already covered.

I like that some new people join in from time to time which can help bring new ideas so thanks everyone for participating in the discussions.

 

[Hatfield]

Okay, I've been here from the beginning and had gotten sidetracked by some other cases. I have finally caught up now.

My theory is pure speculation and not based on facts or anything in the media. I think DeOrr was passed off to someone who was to meet the parents at Leadore; not at the campsite, but at Leadore. Reason? Hoax to get or raise money, to sell DeOrr, or to keep him out of sight while he recovered from abuse or injuries that could not be explained.

In the above post I asked when that pic was taken. Does anyone know where it was taken or how long before he disappeared? The parents have been named as suspects so I feel I can say again that I do not like how JM is cutting her eyes sideways looking at DeOrr with absolutely no emotion showing on her face. IMO, it isn't like a mother looks at her child unless she is disgusted with him/her. I did say IMO.

That is my honest theory until or unless different facts come to light.

GB this precious little guy and those who love him that had nothing to do with his disappearance.

Re BBM
Besides the other theories which indicate Deorr may not be alive anymore, I have considered this theory too in the very beginning. It is possible that for whatever reason they decided to allow another adult to care for the boy. Maybe even permantly let another adult have the boy.

Maybe he was too much to handle for them and maybe another adult approached them offering to raise him as their own. And maybe they tossed around ideas and came up with a plan.

If something like that happened then I think whoever has him was probably going to move away from the area because I doubt they would want to live near there because someone would eventually spot the boy. So if that theory has any possibility then I think the person moved out of the area right around the time of the boys disappearance.

Wonder if we can lookup moving records of people that once lived near them and then moved out of state around that time.

ETA: Removed the part that I could not confirm.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Respectfully snipped by me.

I agree that the way JM is looking at DeOrr is not particularly pleasant but I don't think we should read too much into it - there are countless other photo's of them together, and DeOrr alone where he looks like a normal happy toddler. I think it's unfortunate that this photo was taken at the time that it was but can all mothers here honestly put their hand on their heart & say they have never looked at their child in anything other than a loving way? I know if I am honest I can't - however my daughter is alive & well and in her late teens & I love her very much. I have no doubt in saying that there are probably times I glanced at her in a similar fashion to the image in question - I'm just lucky nobody took a photo of it!

JMO

When my kids were teens behaving badly, or talking in church, I have given them looks that would frighten most criminals! However, never did I give them 'that look' when they were small no matter what happened.

MOO