ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[ClaireNC]

I wonder if LE in Lemhi County have confirmed that?

I don't see any reason to doubt the woman's story of a man staring at her children in Swan Valley. IMO She did the right thing and reported it with the slim chance it could have been related to Deorr's disappearance. It's the part where JM and VDK grabbed onto it and said "oh yeah...I remember there was this guy and oh yes..he had a black jeep" that is suspicious. Klein said there was no creepy guy with a jeep in Leadore. That doesn't mean there wasn't one in Swan Valley.

 

[haven71]

Thanks Seeing that now.

So in total there was a lot of tests given. Wow. That sure is a lot between all of them. Ive never heard of any case where this many tests would be given to all the parties.

I wonder when GGP's and IR's polys took place. The first, early on of course. But the second? Were their second polys given recently? If so, that could be helping the case along as well. I wonder if IR is the one who has "direct knowledge" and came forward to LE? If so, perhaps his second poly was to gauge the truthfulness of the direct knowledge.

I do find it odd that GGP has been poly'd twice, if he isn't considered mentally efficient enough to help the investigation.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I don't see any reason to doubt the woman's story of a man staring at her children in Swan Valley. IMO She did the right thing and reported it with the slim chance it could have been related to Deorr's disappearance. It's the part where JM and VDK grabbed onto it and said "oh yeah...I remember there was this guy and oh yes..he had a black jeep" that is suspicious. Klein said there was no creepy guy with a jeep in Leadore. That doesn't mean there wasn't one in Swan Valley.

I was wondering (and possibly desert-blue too?) more along the lines of whether it was true LE received a call from the lady on the July 19th.

Weighing it up it, I think they did get the call and story but by that time LE had "changed direction".

 

[ClaireNC]

I wonder when GGP's and IR's polys took place. The first, early on of course. But the second? Were their second polys given recently? If so, that could be helping the case along as well. I wonder if IR is the one who has "direct knowledge" and came forward to LE? If so, perhaps his second poly was to gauge the truthfulness of the direct knowledge.

I do find it odd that GGP has been poly'd twice, if he isn't considered mentally efficient enough to help the investigation.

I assumed that the first polys were conducted by LE and the second ones were done by the FBI. Nothing odd about that, the FBI probably just wanted tests done by their own experts.

 

[Hatfield]

I saw quite a few posts about thinking LE is going to come back to the campground after the snow melts and do more searching. Was that mentioned by LE or Klein for sure OR is that just what we are thinking they are likely to do?

I guess I am trying to figure out how LE and/or Klein are going to be able to move this case along. Do we know of anything definite that they told us that makes us think something is coming soon that will break open this case?

 

[haven71]

I wonder when GGP's and IR's polys took place. The first, early on of course. But the second? Were their second polys given recently? If so, that could be helping the case along as well. I wonder if IR is the one who has "direct knowledge" and came forward to LE? If so, perhaps his second poly was to gauge the truthfulness of the direct knowledge.

I do find it odd that GGP has been poly'd twice, if he isn't considered mentally efficient enough to help the investigation.

Nah, second guessing myself. IR has not been consistent in his stories, and as per the Klein interview:

ES: Did he pass the two questions the parents failed, know what happened and where he is, or was did that come back as inconclusive due to his disabilities? Is that the same for the grandpa?
Klein Investigations and Consulting ES he did not pass.


DN: Expanding on this question - did Isaac pass the control questions on the polygraph?
Klein Investigations and Consulting DN he did not.

 

[ClaireNC]

I was wondering (and possibly desert-blue too?) more along the lines of whether it was true LE received a call from the lady on the July 19th.

Weighing it up it, I think they did get the call and story but by that time LE had "changed direction".

I had that same thought, that by that time LE probably had a strong suspicion that little Deorr was not abducted. Also at that time they were getting a lot of leads from all over Idaho so it was just one of many leads they would have needed to follow up on. If they had already "changed directions" they would not have taken it as a viable lead.

 

[haven71]

I assumed that the first poly was conducted by LE and the second one was done by the FBI. Nothing odd about that, the FBI probably just wanted tests done by their own experts.

I think it is a bit odd that they were poly'd at all. They said they knew GGP's would come back inconclusive no matter what. So why did they give him even one? (Personally I think GGP is more on top of things than we've been led to believe).

Being that they're inadmissible in court anyway, why waste the time and resources? To make the other POI's feel like they weren't singled out?

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I think it is a bit odd that they were poly'd at all. They said they knew GGP's would come back inconclusive no matter what. So why did they give him even one? (Personally I think GGP is more on top of things than we've been led to believe).

Being that they're inadmissible in court anyway, why waste the time and resources? To make the other POI's feel like they weren't singled out?

From my limited understanding/reading up of polygraphs, a experienced/skilled tester can take account and work round a lot of issues. So I'm thinking they've been used to compare some things?

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

I wonder that too. You would think that would have been a red flag from the very get-go, though, that something wasn't right and makes you wonder why it wasn't treated as a crime scene from the very beginning (unless it was, and LE is just being sly....).

And how long was it until it was revealed that there was actually a THIRD 911 call placed (by GGP)? Wasn't it Klein who spilled the beans in one of his recent Facebook Q&A sessions? Forgive me if I'm not remembering correctly, but I personally had never heard about this third call until recently.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

Since the inconclusive polygraphs of the ONLY POI's in this case made headline news, it seems a bit odd to see a special request that they not be discussed. Otoh, I have seen nothing that would even begin to indicate that child *advertiser censored* was involved in DeOrr's disappearance <modsnip>

Mine wasn't a special request to not discuss the polygraphs. I hate to use this terminology, but I'm going to...I was just a bit tired of beating a dead horse, is all.

And, you are 100% correct, I have also seen nothing that would even begin to indicate that child *advertiser censored* was involved. As I said in my original post: "Why else would you be involved in the disappearance of your own child? In my non-twisted mind, it just HAS to be something horrendous like that." Others have said drugs might be involved - my mind went to an even darker place. I hope it's not the case, but I feel that if it had been drugs and an accidental death they were trying to cover up, we would at least see some remorse (disguised as grief) from the parents. For me, the lack of caring or remorse that they are showing says everything I need to know. JMO.

 

[ILOKAL]

Nah, second guessing myself. IR has not been consistent in his stories, and as per the Klein interview:

ES: Did he pass the two questions the parents failed, know what happened and where he is, or was did that come back as inconclusive due to his disabilities? Is that the same for the grandpa?
Klein Investigations and Consulting ES he did not pass.

DN: Expanding on this question - did Isaac pass the control questions on the polygraph?
Klein Investigations and Consulting DN he did not.

Quite frankly, I don't begin to understand the question regarding if Reinwand passed the control questions, much less Klein's answer. Control questions are a part of the total test which are used to gauge the examinee's physiological response to a lie. At least that's what I gained from the links I posted up thread. Having said that, I don't think someone passes or fails a control question. Maybe the person asking meant did Reinwand's test indicate he answered the control questions truthfully. Control questions are designed to get a "no" response. They are discussed in the Pre-test interview and then adjusted (or manipulated) until the examinee can unequivocally answer "no", even if "no" is a lie. All IMO from the sources I previously provided.

 

[BeeFriendly]

Which is why I have always wondered why they bothered to share that polygraph info. I am glad they did for the pure curiosity of it all. But as you say, it is odd because it is not really relevant info in the long run.

I think the Sheriff had to come out and say something, his hand was forced by Klein and the frenzy he was causing. He threw out a bone for the public to chew on without giving anything away. And made it clear, he is the one in charge.

 

[Dee10]

I wonder when GGP's and IR's polys took place. The first, early on of course. But the second? Were their second polys given recently? If so, that could be helping the case along as well. I wonder if IR is the one who has "direct knowledge" and came forward to LE? If so, perhaps his second poly was to gauge the truthfulness of the direct knowledge.

I do find it odd that GGP has been poly'd twice, if he isn't considered mentally efficient enough to help the investigation.

BBM

CB: It's been heard that Isaac has intellectual disabilities. His LDT came back inconclusive. What are the specific questions that were asked? Does Isaac get a 'get out of jail' free card? Is there strong evidence that makes Isaac innocent?

Klein Investigations and Consulting Isaac in our teams opinion is a person of interest with "direct knowledge".

ETA - I wonder the same.

 

[Mickshawn]

I think that when this case gets resolved (and they find DeOrr~~Hopefully)....and tell us all the news of what really came down, I'm going to totally lose it...It will then be so real and so final and so awful....There's a part of me holding onto a thread of hope that he is OK somewhere (but I don't really think so). This is like a slow drawn out grieving. I've gotten so attached to this little baby.

 

[BeeFriendly]

I saw quite a few posts about thinking LE is going to come back to the campground after the snow melts and do more searching. Was that mentioned by LE or Klein for sure OR is that just what we are thinking they are likely to do?

I guess I am trying to figure out how LE and/or Klein are going to be able to move this case along. Do we know of anything definite that they told us that makes us think something is coming soon that will break open this case?

Deputy Steve Penner said on January 9th, they'll be searching in the spring.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/state/article53986575.html

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

Deputy Steve Penner said on January 9th, they'll be searching in the spring.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/state/article53986575.html

Thanks for posting that link. This likely means they believe he's up there somewhere. I don't think they'd waste precious man hours and resources otherwise.

 

[BeeFriendly]

I get the feeling LE and Klein are working closely together - is that not your feeling? I know you're a local so I'd love to hear your perspective.

OMG..don't rely on your feelings CCI. Lol. I am not a local...a few states over. IMO There is no way Klein and the Sheriff are working closely together. Klein is making it appear they are, but again, it's a federal crime for LE to share any facts or evidence of a case with a citizen. Federal offense. I think LE is merely tolerating the bull in the china shop and hoping he doesn't jeopardize the case.

 

[desert-blue]

And how long was it until it was revealed that there was actually a THIRD 911 call placed (by GGP)? Wasn't it Klein who spilled the beans in one of his recent Facebook Q&A sessions? Forgive me if I'm not remembering correctly, but I personally had never heard about this third call until recently.

Yes, in one of Klein's responses to another question (on a FB Q & A), he made reference to the three 911 calls. That was the first time it was ever stated that three calls were made, so one can't help but wonder if there is a reason that we never knew that GGPA also made a call. It's also curious that the audio of DK's call has never been released. I thought maybe it was just because it was short and of little consequence, but now I think there may be other reasons...

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

OMG..don't rely on your feelings CCI. Lol. I am not a local...a few states over. IMO There is no way Klein and the Sheriff are working closely together. Klein is making it appear they are, but again, it's a federal crime for LE to share any facts or evidence of a case to a citizen. Federal crime. I think LE is merely tolerating the bull in the china shop and hope he doesn't jeopardize the case.

LOL! OK, I won't rely on my feelings. And, my apologies, I think I was confusing you with BeezNeez (sp?) who is a local.