ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[The Apparition]

In regards to IR and "failing" the test and the control question: If his readings are all over the place or too flat line they will not be able to get a read on him. Many people have been accused of taking drugs or drinking to purposely throw off a poly test, maybe IR takes some Dr. prescribed meds that will effect his readings. Going into the poly LE no doubt knew whatever underlying circumstances IR has and were prepared. Why did they poly him, perhaps they hoped they would be able to get some kind of good read on him anyways. They also might have wanted to observe him physically even if they knew the tech portion of the poly was going to come back inconclusive.

The only other thing I would like to address is the choice of words. The PE said IR failed the poly and the control question, perhaps he meant the poly failed to work as it should on him? I certainly won't try to tell others how to post but I also find people's picking apart the sheriffs choice of words in regards to VDK and JM over the top. The sheriff seems like one of the most cautiously spoken people I've ever heard interviewed IMHO it is no surprise that his language would be vague and non-definitive. I would pay lots of money to hear what he really thinks, I imagine it would be way less diplomatic.

 

[BeeFriendly]

Yes, in one of Klein's responses to another question (on a FB Q & A), he made reference to the three 911 calls. That was the first time it was ever stated that three calls were made, so one can't help but wonder if there is a reason that we never knew that GGPA also made a call. It's also curious that the audio of DK's call has never been released. I thought maybe it was just because it was short and of little consequence, but now I think there may be other reasons...

Speaking to this...Jessica's 911 call was released on July 15th, 2016
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

But then SB answers here January 28th:
19:09
TG: Do you think the 911 calls will be made public soon? Can a citizen request copies of them now?

19:19
SB: I believe one has already been released and that was in the early stages of just him being missing, but now that we’ve determined that there’s possible foul play, I’ve asked my Dispatch Commander not to release any more copies of that but there are copies out there because I think it could be…it could be evidence.
I wonder at what point he made this decision?

 

[pepelepolecat]

I wonder when GGP's and IR's polys took place. The first, early on of course. But the second? Were their second polys given recently? If so, that could be helping the case along as well. I wonder if IR is the one who has "direct knowledge" and came forward to LE? If so, perhaps his second poly was to gauge the truthfulness of the direct knowledge.

I do find it odd that GGP has been poly'd twice, if he isn't considered mentally efficient enough to help the investigation.

Or it could have just been that they were double checking the results. They expected them to come back inconclusive, right? So maybe they just wanted to make sure that their answers were still measuring more or less the same as the previous one. Had there been a change, they may have considered that that person was perhaps being less than truthful/deceitful.

 

[mommylicious]

I think that when this case gets resolved (and they find DeOrr~~Hopefully)....and tell us all the news of what really came down, I'm going to totally lose it...It will then be so real and so final and so awful....There's a part of me holding onto a thread of hope that he is OK somewhere (but I don't really think so). This is like a slow drawn out grieving. I've gotten so attached to this little baby.

Can this happen tomorrow? Little DeOrr has been missing for far too long and it's time for him to come home now and be laid to rest properly.

 

[haven71]

Thanks for posting that link. This likely means they believe he's up there somewhere. I don't think they'd waste precious man hours and resources otherwise.

I remember when Klein came out and did the Q & A and we felt we garnered a lot of pertinent information from him. I had high hopes the case would be solved soon.

The info from LE is disappointing, if only because it is so scant. While Klein contends to have concrete knowledge (we know HOW we just don't know WHY), LE makes vague references in comparison.

I'm going back to the last interview with SB, which I believed was recorded after Klein's discussion. IIRC my heart dropped because it seemed like he was truly stumped.

I'm trying to give LE the benefit of the doubt and believe that there are untold, critical truths and physical evidence being discovered behind the scenes.

I pray justice is served.

 

[desert-blue]

I was wondering (and possibly desert-blue too?) more along the lines of whether it was true LE received a call from the lady on the July 19th.

Weighing it up it, I think they did get the call and story but by that time LE had "changed direction".

Yes, my question was just whether the woman had actually previously reported the sighting to Lemhi County LE (on July 19th), or if she waited until after Vilt offered the reward money to report it. I'm not questioning whether she actually saw a creep in Swan Valley - I assume there is some element of truth to her story but I think it was a bit of a stretch to tie it to DeOrr's disappearance. I agree that if she did report it on July 19th, that LE may have kind of shrugged it off due to the new direction of the case.

 

[desert-blue]

Speaking to this...Jessica's 911 call was released on July 15th, 2016
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

But then SB answers here January 28th:
19:09
TG: Do you think the 911 calls will be made public soon? Can a citizen request copies of them now?

19:19
SB: I believe one has already been released and that was in the early stages of just him being missing, but now that we’ve determined that there’s possible foul play, I’ve asked my Dispatch Commander not to release any more copies of that but there are copies out there because I think it could be…it could be evidence.
I wonder at what point he made this decision?

It's interesting that he thinks JM's call could be evidence.

 

[OSpyder]

Speaking to this...Jessica's 911 call was released on July 15th, 2016
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

But then SB answers here January 28th:
19:09
TG: Do you think the 911 calls will be made public soon? Can a citizen request copies of them now?

19:19
SB: I believe one has already been released and that was in the early stages of just him being missing, but now that we’ve determined that there’s possible foul play, I’ve asked my Dispatch Commander not to release any more copies of that but there are copies out there because I think it could be…it could be evidence.
I wonder at what point he made this decision?

It's interesting that he thinks JM's call could be evidence.

Forgive me if I missed it, but has anybody said why JM's 911 call was released in the first place? Do they do normally do that for missing children- Especially so soon?

 

[haven71]

Forgive me if I missed it, but has anybody said why JM's 911 call was released in the first place? Do they do normally do that for missing children- Especially so soon?

I'm not sure about that. I would've thought perhaps they'd release the *first* 911 call. But maybe GGP was not clear about what he was trying to say.

 

[Little Ol Me]

Forgive me if I missed it, but has anybody said why JM's 911 call was released in the first place? Do they do normally do that for missing children- Especially so soon?

Most likely because a reporter requested it.

IMO, there are probably copies of all 3 calls out there.
Otherwise how would Kline know the time of the calls, 14:22, 14:26 & 14:28.
I think he requested a transcript of the calls before SB decided not to release any more copies.

 

[skinnycat]

So GGP called 4 minutes before JM, this I find very interesting

Also been wondering just what the sheriff thought they might have seen a few weeks back when they were up on the mountain on snowmobiles, he made the comment about there being 4-6 feet of snow. If there was diesel fuel spilled or burned would the snow cover be as deep in that spot?

 

[Dee10]

So GGP called 4 minutes before JM, this I find very interesting

Also been wondering just what the sheriff thought they might have seen a few weeks back when they were up on the mountain on snowmobiles, he made the comment about there being 4-6 feet of snow. If there was diesel fuel spilled or burned would the snow cover be as deep in that spot?

I was thinking they may have rec'd the initial report or map with perhaps some ping information and they wanted to get a feel for that area or maybe put some (deer type) cameras and only take motion snap shots to see if any person entered this area for instance. Just a thought, because why would all those different agencies go up there with that amount of snow?

 

[BeeFriendly]

It's interesting that he thinks JM's call could be evidence.

I thought he was referring to the other 2 calls that were made by GGF and DK as well as JM's. Everyone has asked him, why haven't they released VDK's? I had no idea GGF had made one too before Kleins Q&A.

 

[TeaTime]

It has been discussed that inconclusive polys and changing stories led to the parents being named as suspects. But, since all 4 took polys that were inconclusive and all 4 have given multiple statements in which bits and pieces of the story changes, why then are they not all named as suspects?

 

[DatelineFan]

It has been discussed that inconclusive polys and changing stories led to the parents being named as suspects. But, since all 4 took polys that were inconclusive and all 4 have given multiple statements in which bits and pieces of the story changes, why then are they not all named as suspects?

Most likely because the polygraphs are only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I was thinking they may have rec'd the initial report or map with perhaps some ping information and they wanted to get a feel for that area or maybe put some (deer type) cameras and only take motion snap shots to see if any person entered this area for instance. Just a thought, because why would all those different agencies go up there with that amount of snow?

I think you may be correct about the ping information. What I want to know is why they wouldn't have had that ping information well before the snowfall happened? I realize they need a search warrant for that, and may not have had cause for one until recently, but then how were they searching JM's and DK's vehicles and home? Did JM and DK agree to those searches so they didn't need a warrant?

 

[ZooSleuth]

It has been discussed that inconclusive polys and changing stories led to the parents being named as suspects. But, since all 4 took polys that were inconclusive and all 4 have given multiple statements in which bits and pieces of the story changes, why then are they not all named as suspects?

Because GGP & IR's polys would show up as "inconclusive" if they were telling the truth or being less than truthful. Not the same as the "inconclusive" that was labeled to the parent's polys. Theirs were inconclusive because they were being truthful in some parts but were showing deception in others. The spots they showed deception were the important questions about if they knew where Deorr was or what happened to Deorr.

 

[The Apparition]

I think you may be correct about the ping information. What I want to know is why they wouldn't have had that ping information well before the snowfall happened? I realize they need a search warrant for that, and may not have had cause for one until recently, but then how were they searching JM's and DK's vehicles and home? Did JM and DK agree to those searches so they didn't need a warrant?

I am no expert but I think getting a search warrant for the house was simple enough as there is probable cause (missing child) same with the vehicles. Getting the cell carrier to release their info is probably legally more complicated. The cell carrier has a duty to protect it's customers privacy and can't just give out data easily. They also have corporate counsels who are going to make sure everything is legit before they open up. Factor in the pings come from whoever's tower is closest so now you are probably dealing with a carrier for phone service and whoever owns the tower that was supplying signal up at the campsite.

 

[neesaki]

I think it is a bit odd that they were poly'd at all. They said they knew GGP's would come back inconclusive no matter what. So why did they give him even one? (Personally I think GGP is more on top of things than we've been led to believe).

Being that they're inadmissible in court anyway, why waste the time and resources? To make the other POI's feel like they weren't singled out?

Polygraph them all, versus singling anyone out. I agree.

 

[LietKynes]

<modsnip>

SABBM

Will delete my post again if this is not allowed... but what would constitute "concrete physical evidence" ?
We know there were three 911 calls. And four polys given.
But would this evidence have to be something else ?
Anyone with some more experience with forensics have an idea ?
Tia.
:moo: