ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

[Jackeee]

Does anyone remember the order the 911 calls were made? For months it was said that JM and VDK each made one then it came out that GGP also called. Thx

 

[TxJan1971]

Klein Investigations and Consulting There were three 911 calls which are public - 14:22, 14:26 and 14:28 hours on the 10th. January 11 at 5:25pm

BOS: Who made the 3rd phone call to 911. Was there a disposable phone in the hands of anyone while camping?
Klein Investigations and Consulting There were three calls made to 911. First, Vernal. Second, Jessica. Third, the grandfather.

Note: Regardless of the above Klein statement, the 911 call, by Jessica, audio clearly states in the beginning that the call was received (by JM) at 2:28 p.m! Therefore, JM had to have been last according to the first statement by Klein above.

Link to Jessica's 911 call audio:
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

 

[kammiemc]

Agreed. I think he was probably away in his truck for a separate reason, and they'd coordinated to call at the same time, to make it look like he'd left to make the call. That's why they were so specific about the 2:36 timing.
Funny, my suspicions wouldn't even really be raised about his leaving in his truck if it wasn't for that weird rambling explanation about it.

DK brought up his 911 runfirst thing in the interview and then brought it up again later two separate times. Even though NE never asked about it at all. It seemed very important to DK to be able to convince people as to why he needed to haul down the road. It was an unnecessary, nonsensical embellishment that he said he was "blessed" that JM got through. That, among other things like him stalling to avoid answering what day things started, made me suspect he was lying his bottom off.


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[TheTruthWillOut]

Klein Investigations and Consulting There were three 911 calls which are public - 14:22, 14:26 and 14:28 hours on the 10th. January 11 at 5:25pm

BOS: Who made the 3rd phone call to 911. Was there a disposable phone in the hands of anyone while camping?
Klein Investigations and Consulting There were three calls made to 911. First, Vernal. Second, Jessica. Third, the grandfather.

Note: Regardless of the above Klein statement, the 911 call, by Jessica, audio clearly states in the beginning that the call was received (by JM) at 2:28 p.m! Therefore, JM had to have been last according to the first statement by Klein above.

Link to Jessica's 911 call audio:
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

Yeah I think Klein was just listing the calls 1, 2 , 3 rather than the actual order they called. Why he revealed GGP called and then listed the calls in the wrong order I don't know.

 

[pepelepolecat]

To me...and it's all just a personal opinion if your more worried about your self then helping assist with a missing two year old boy then you've got something to hide.
I don't care if he has a past with LE or not. A child is missing and finding him is more important then not talking with LE. He could go back and talk with his lawyer present.

And if he didn't see nothing. And if he wasn't a part of any of this then why can't he talk about certain questions? We know LE didn't ask him not to talk. Yet when asked what he thought happen to DeOrr he said he thought he was abducted or taken by a wild animal. Something isn't right imo.

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If I thought I was about to be arrested and charged with something I did not do and if people everywhere were pointing the finger at me and deciding I was guilty even though there was no evidence of such, I don't know how much I'd want to help, either. Sure, I'd want the child to be found ... but I also want to be here with my family and my own kids. Maybe the parents, who LE has said quite clearly KNOW where he is, should be making a bit of an effort to help out more. imo. moo.

 

[desert-blue]

I f we assume that Klein's times are correct 2:22, 2:26 and 2:28, and we know JM's was at 2:28 (because of the time stamp on her 911 call), I wonder who made the first call - DK or GGPA?

 

[pepelepolecat]

I've read them. As far as I know, that was never said by law enforcement.

If you can quote it by LE, I'm happy to be wrong.

What I read was Klein saying it. I missed the link for LE saying it, too. But at the same time, he never said that LE told him to keep quiet, so I assumed that he was talking about his attorney asking him to not talk about it.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I f we assume that Klein's times are correct 2:22, 2:26 and 2:28, and we know JM's was at 2:28 (because of the time stamp on her 911 call), I wonder who made the first call - DK or GGPA?

That is the outstanding question. We can't assume VDK because Klein lists him first as he lists JM second which contradicts his listed times because we know the time of JM's call. (still with me!?)

 

[pepelepolecat]

Here you go, I think this is what Giagreen is referring to:

Some people wondered because Isaac Reinwand in his interview with Nate Eaton said that he couldn’t answer any questions—that he was told not to answer any questions, and you know then Mr. Klein kind of disputed that so we have a question here, you know, Did you advise or instruct Isaac Reinwand not to talk to the media?

24:59
SB: No, in fact, you know from the get go, Isaac, you know it’s been included in our interviews and he chose at some point in time to contact an attorney, and I think that’s primarily due –he’s got a criminal record, and I think he’s had some issues in the past and so he felt like he’d been targeted in the past on other issues by law enforcement so I think he was trying to do the right thing and so he contacted an attorney.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page4

First of all, IR never said he couldn't answer ANY questions, and second:

question: "Did you advise or instruct Isaac Reinwand not to talk to the media?"
answer: "No."

This is a bit different than what actually happened. IR didn't answer specific questions. He refused to answer three specific questions (iirc). Am I the only one seeing the difference here? I will also repeat that IR never said that LE told him not to talk to the media or not to answer those specific question, which means it's quite possible that his attorney did. Or that LE told him not to answer those specific questions (rather than not talking to the media at all).

 

[giagreen]

I've read them. As far as I know, that was never said by law enforcement.

If you can quote it by LE, I'm happy to be wrong.

Bessie asked: "Um…and also, some people wondered because Isaac Reinwand in his interview with Nate Eaton said that he couldn’t answer any questions—that he was told not to answer any questions, and you know then Mr. Klein kind of disputed that so we have a question here, you know, Did you advise or instruct Isaac Reinwand not to talk to the media?"

SB answered: "No, in fact, you know from the get go, Isaac, you know it’s been included in our interviews and he chose at some point in time to contact an attorney, and I think that’s primarily due –he’s got a criminal record, and I think he’s had some issues in the past and so he felt like he’d been targeted in the past on other issues by law enforcement so I think he was trying to do the right thing and so he contacted an attorney."


*http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286501


The question was flat out asked. I don't know how els anyone could take that. SB said "No"


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[desert-blue]

That is the outstanding question. We can't assume VDK because Klein lists him first as he lists JM second which contradicts his listed times because we know the time of JM's call. (still with me!?)

So, Klein either made an error on the time stamps or else he made an error on the order (or both)?

 

[pepelepolecat]

AFAIK driving 40 mph on that road would be extremely difficult if not impossible. Would be interested in hearing what others on this list from the area think. JMO

I don't know how difficult or impossible it would be but ... Driving 40 mph down a road when your toddler is missing would be extremely stupid if not dangerous.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Bessie asked: "Um…and also, some people wondered because Isaac Reinwand in his interview with Nate Eaton said that he couldn’t answer any questions—that he was told not to answer any questions, and you know then Mr. Klein kind of disputed that so we have a question here, you know, Did you advise or instruct Isaac Reinwand not to talk to the media?"

SB answered: "No, in fact, you know from the get go, Isaac, you know it’s been included in our interviews and he chose at some point in time to contact an attorney, and I think that’s primarily due –he’s got a criminal record, and I think he’s had some issues in the past and so he felt like he’d been targeted in the past on other issues by law enforcement so I think he was trying to do the right thing and so he contacted an attorney."


*http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286501


The question was flat out asked. I don't know how els anyone could take that. SB said "No"


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But IR never said he couldn't answer *any questions -- in fact, the whole interview was him answering questions. So obviously he wasn't claiming that LE told him that, and SB is agreeing with that, that he never told IR he couldn't answer any questions.

There were just a small handful of questions (three, iirc) that he didn't answer, and he never said *who told him he couldn't answer those specific questions and strongly implied it was his attorney (at the beginning of the interview).

ETA: (I want to clarify that I'm not nitpicking or picking at your posts and hope I'm not coming off that way. I think Klein's comments specifically about IR and SB's broader comments have gotten a bit mixed up somewhere down the line, but at the end of the day, SB didn't tell IR not to talk to the press, and IR didn't claim that he did (which is what Klein implied if not outright stated). I hope that makes sense!)

 

[DatelineFan]

Bessie asked: "Um…and also, some people wondered because Isaac Reinwand in his interview with Nate Eaton said that he couldn’t answer any questions—that he was told not to answer any questions, and you know then Mr. Klein kind of disputed that so we have a question here, you know, Did you advise or instruct Isaac Reinwand not to talk to the media?"

SB answered: "No, in fact, you know from the get go, Isaac, you know it’s been included in our interviews and he chose at some point in time to contact an attorney, and I think that’s primarily due –he’s got a criminal record, and I think he’s had some issues in the past and so he felt like he’d been targeted in the past on other issues by law enforcement so I think he was trying to do the right thing and so he contacted an attorney."


*http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286501


The question was flat out asked. I don't know how els anyone could take that. SB said "No"


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I know. I read it earlier. I still stand by my post from earlier. They can't tell you not to, but they strongly discourage it. It's fine if we disagree. I don't need to convince anyone.

 

[persimmon]

First of all, IR never said he couldn't answer ANY questions, and second:

question: "Did you advise or instruct Isaac Reinwand not to talk to the media?"
answer: "No."

This is a bit different than what actually happened. IR didn't answer specific questions. He refused to answer three specific questions (iirc). Am I the only one seeing the difference here? I will also repeat that IR never said that LE told him not to talk to the media or not to answer those specific question, which means it's quite possible that his attorney did. Or that LE told him not to answer those specific questions (rather than not talking to the media at all).

No....I believe I see what you're saying. IR never said "LE instructed me not to talk"...to the media or otherwise. Since we know he has an attorney, we can assume his attorney advised him to avoid certain questions that might prove integral to a criminal case down the road. That seems neither suspicious nor unusual. Additionally, the question posed to SB was rather all encompassing and so his answer, although he has no obligation to tell the truth, is the truth. Perhaps he did advise IRs attorney to ask IR not to discuss certain points but that is different than saying do not talk to the media.

SB does not seem like a trickster, but we should all know that LE can, will, and do lie. That is a fact and it is within their job description to do so if it advances an imvestigation or helps ensure the integrity of one. There doesn't seem to be a big mystery here. IR was unsuspectingly caught up in a criminal mess and he is doing what he is told because his interest are being protected by somebody who was paid to perform that duty. SB has not issued a statement that IR is a suspect or that he knows where DeOrr is.

 

[giagreen]

I know. I read it earlier. I still stand by my post from earlier. They can't tell you not to, but they strongly discourage it. It's fine if we disagree. I don't need to convince anyone.

I was just giving you the link and a quote that you asked for. I've been working all day. Haven't even read the thread just what people have quoted me so I'm not sure what you mean. I'll catch up later maybe.

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[Rayemonde]

In the early stages of dementia/Alzheimer's, instances of emotional outbursts and violence are common.
I'm not quite ready to travel down the mental road of RW being an active participant in the death of DeOrr, especially since he hasn't been named as a suspect, but I do think that's worth noting.

Do you have a link for that? I thought it could be a problem in later stages of the illness in *some* patients, not the early stages.

We don't know that ggp has been diagnosed with any kind of dementia. There are other reasons for poor memory. It seems like a bit of a stretch to try and link memory problems with toddler killing.

 

[Hoosier952]

I'm starting to wonder if GGP was the first call. Originally, I thought it was an error or just not clear when Klein gave the list.

Let me propose two scenarios.

GGP knows Deorr is missing, but has no idea why at the time. He tries to convince JM and DK to call 911. They still haven't had a chance to figure out what to do or what to say, so they try to convince GGP to hold off "until they look a while longer". GGP gets frustrated and says if you aren't calling, I am. Now the parents might feel forced to call. They need to give 911 the "correct" information/story. Maybe GGP didn't really speak to 911, just told them that JM was calling and she could talk to them. Since SB has stated the parents are lying, we don't even know if DK hauled down the road to make a call, or if he was already MIA from camp, maybe already hiding Deorr, or if he was sitting at camp the entire time.

Scenario two. GGP knows or suspects what happened and is convinced calling 911 is the best way to handle the situation. To prevent GGP from saying anything incriminating, JM and DK are once again forced to call 911 to cover their butts.

I suspect people who are more concerned about what people on SM are saying than they are their "missing" child might be more concerned about how it would look if they didn't call 911 after he had been "missing" for so long. IR was there and could potentially destroy their story about how long Deorr had been "missing" before calling 911.

 

[persimmon]

At this point, we should consider IR a victim according to the rules of WS. Therefore, pushing discussion about his guilt is against TOS. It's not even logical to think he caused DeOrr to disappear and nobody saw or suspected anything. From the get go we can assume LE looked closely at him because of his past. Regardless, they apparently ruled him out. This notion that IR refuses to talk to LE has no basis in reality. It has never been stated that he refused to talk. When LE interviews all people who were present at the scene of a crime, they are gathering facts and evidence. If one party is consistent from the start and their narrative makes sense, then it stands to reason that LE will not need to ask for repeated interviews. Maybe down the road but in the intitial phase when they have identified the liars and suspects, it makes sense to focus on talking to them. IR told the truth...they accepted his answers and see no value in asking him to repeat the truth again and again. I imagine he told them everything he could. That is the difference. Moreover, to say that he is selfish in refusing to talk is deceptive and an attack on a victim who according to LE is not suspected of any wrongdoing. I have no problem with him refusing to speak to Klein. Klein is not LE and from IRs perspective he was working for the family and therefore maybe was looking for a scapegoat. We know that wasn't the case but its reasonable to think IR may have believed something along those lines when he deined an interview.

 

[forsaken]

He's also said the parents where very truthful in the beginning.

Link?

SB said parents were very cooperative yes, but NEVER "very truthful". It is consistent though, parents are cooperative answering LE questions by keep answering with lies.