ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #23

[ZooSleuth]

Why did the dad willingly take 9 separate polygraphs?

Especially if he knew he failed the first 2. Those things are not even admissible. So why did he agree to all 9 of them

As somebody just said, these people are not very smart (MOO). The fact that they are likely guilty and volunteered to take any polygraphs, let alone 9, shows how dumb they are. Lots of innocent people refuse polygraphs. Plus 9 different statements to police before getting a lawyer? A jury will see right through this BS.

 

[neesaki]

The following quote seemed to suggest she was somehow a "victim":
This has been very disturbing to us. We have attempted to work with Jessica tremendously. We have offered to fly her to Texas to give her the opportunity to get away from Idaho because she’s scared of some situations.

Ok, thanks persimmon. Just wasn't sure if I'd missed something else. :seeya:

 

[Jackeee]

The following quote seemed to suggest she was somehow a "victim":
This has been very disturbing to us. We have attempted to work with Jessica tremendously. We have offered to fly her to Texas to give her the opportunity to get away from Idaho because she’s scared of some situations.

JM's scared? How frightened was little DeOrr before he died? What could he possibly have done to deserve all of this?

 

[DatelineFan]

I'm glad you are...I'm the same way about wanting to know the facts. Of course an innocent family would appreciate such a person but others..... Do post what you find because it really would add a new dimension to the investigative process.

I don't have a link, but I just talked to a law enforcement officer in the NW. I told him I was asking about Deorr, but also in general.

In cases where a child is missing, and considered missing and endangered (not a runaway), the case is considered to be the highest priority. Deorr fits this criteria. An officer will be with the parents during the day, and some type of victim advocate or officer will be with them during the night hours. There isn't one specific name or protocol, because he said it varies depending on the department and the case. He said that usually they keep this up until the child is found. Obviously in many cases, including Deorr's this isn't sustainable.

Hopefully this is helpful.

 

[Beezneez]

As somebody just said, these people are not very smart (MOO). The fact that they are likely guilty and volunteered to take any polygraphs, let alone 9, shows how dumb they are. Lots of innocent people refuse polygraphs. Plus 9 different statements to police before getting a lawyer? A jury will see right through this BS.

I am not a person who imagines themselves in a criminal investigation often, but I have to say if I ever were I would hire an attourney and not participate in polygraphs. Innocent, guilty of a crime, performing major surgery or re-wiring a house- there are times you hire a professional and follow their advice.

 

[Hatfield]

Something that has always, since the release of the 911 call, made me go "hmmmm" was the way little DeOrr was dressed. From Jessica's mouth {for what that's worth} he had on a camo jacket, blue pajama pants and cowboy boots. I have always wondered why he was still in pajamas at 2:00 in the afternoon on a warm summers day while camping. His clothing is something I can see him wearing while playing around the camp during breakfast, morning hours. But pajamas, jacket and boots at 2:00 in the afternoon.... Personally it has never felt right to me. I DO believe there is truth in that is what he was wearing last. Just not wearing it alive at 2:00. The new time line of 8:00 in the morning and DeOrr going missing while wearing his pajama pants says to me something happened or started to happen during the night or early morning hours. There is a lot more I want to say after hearing Kleins interview today but since I want to stay a part of this group I will wait until I can say it in a less "colorful" way.
JMO

Catching up.
I agree totally and this is a good observation you made.

When they first had to call 911 to report him missing they had to develop a "main lie" about what happened. But they would only need to lie about the things they needed to lie about. I think most liars would keep the truth about the "small stuff". There is no sense in making their lie more elaborate than it needed to be.

In fact, their main story lie was so simple and generic it is what made everyone's eyebrows raise off the top of our heads. It was too simple.

It was so simple they forgot to make sure to include details about who was where and exactly where everyone was when he went missing. Which is why there is so much confusion and multiple stories about fishing and leaving the boy with grandpa or he was sleeping or any number of other versions they ended up with. It was a critical error they made that they made their story so simple they forgot to make sure it made sense.

But one thing they would not do is lie about the small things like what he would be wearing. So it makes total sense the boy died early that morning or the night before and was in his PJs.

Anyway, great observation you had.

 

[Tr.]

Even though Klein has been saying all the things I've been expecting to hear, how much authority does he have to be making these public statements? He must have all his ducks in a row to say what neither local LE or the FBI have shared. JMO

As a PI he just has more freedom to speak out on the work he does than say a public official does.

 

[ClaireNC]

I don't know what it's called, or anything. I'm not sure it has a name... I don't know how official it is, but it's definitely something they do. I would be surprised if someone wasn't at the hotel (did I read that somewhere?) where they stayed.

ETA - does anyone know if there's a name for this?

I don't know if we have a standard name, it varies by agency and jurisdiction, etc. I think the FBI uses something like the term Ekkwhine mentioned - family liaison or family support officer. Some agencies use a term like communications specialist. They tell the family that the officer is there to offer support, guidance, help them through the process, for protection and/or in case there is a ransom call, etc. However, the officer is also there to keep an eye on the family and monitor their behavior.

 

[Lillahazel]

It seems like the only reason they have gotten away with it for so long is because it's hard to get past how/why someone would do or say things that are so blatantly stupid.


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[Tr.]

I don't know if we have a standard name, it varies by agency and jurisdiction, etc. I think the FBI uses something like the term Ekkwhine mentioned - family liaison or family support officer. Some agencies use a term like communications specialist. They tell the family that the officer is there to offer support, guidance, help them through the process, for protection and/or in case there is a ransom call, etc. However, the officer is also there to keep an eye on the family and monitor their behavior.

The good thing about this is whether they were observed from afar or closely accompanied the odds are diminished that a body move occurred within the first several weeks.
VDK is shrewd to a point imo And a body move is definitely within the realm of possibilities.
I wonder how much opportunity they had to do such on later visits. I'm only aware of one family organized search.
Anyone know if their were others?

 

[persimmon]

I don't have a link, but I just talked to a law enforcement officer in the NW. I told him I was asking about Deorr, but also in general.

In cases where a child is missing, and considered missing and endangered (not a runaway), the case is considered to be the highest priority. Deorr fits this criteria. An officer will be with the parents during the day, and some type of victim advocate or officer will be with them during the night hours. There isn't one specific name or protocol, because he said it varies depending on the department and the case. He said that usually they keep this up until the child is found. Obviously in many cases, including Deorr's this isn't sustainable.

Hopefully this is helpful.

Yes, very helpful and it will really change
s the way I look at cases. If JM and VDK have had somebody assigned to them day and night, then their communication has been quite limited. Thanks for sharing this info!

 

[Beezneez]

Catching up.
I agree totally and this is a good observation you made.

When they first had to call 911 to report him missing they had to develop a "main lie" about what happened. But they would only need to lie about the things they needed to lie about. I think most liars would keep the truth about the "small stuff". There is no sense in making their lie more elaborate than it needed to be.

In fact, their main story lie was so simple and generic it is what made everyone's eyebrows raise off the top of our heads. It was too simple.

It was so simple they forgot to make sure to include details about who was where and exactly where everyone was when he went missing. Which is why there is so much confusion and multiple stories about fishing and leaving the boy with grandpa or he was sleeping or any number of other versions they ended up with. It was a critical error they made that they made their story so simple they forgot to make sure it made sense.

But one thing they would not do is lie about the small things like what he would be wearing. So it makes total sense the boy died early that morning or the night before and was in his PJs.

Anyway, great observation you had.

Just re-listened to the 911 call. She sticks to the simple story pretty hard- we are camping, he is missing, can't find him anywhere. I am imagining that bells were going off when SB & resonders arrived at that campground. There is just something not right, a kid doesn't just vanish into thin air.
That they tried to cover with such a simple minded story shows that whatever happened, it wasn't planned on. Accident or dicipline out of control, whatever happened it was sudden. This brings me back to the campground being the scene. Either someone lost their temper or there was a real accident- I'm leaning toward someone losing their temper. Maybe VDK, but JM is the one who turned it into a cover up.
Whatever happened they are both trying to promote the idea that they are in this together, mainly trying to convince each other. My best guess is that just as IR family hired representation & told him not to talk VDK family has also hired a lawyer & told him to shut up. Except he is thinking with the wrong head (ahem) & still buying that JM is covering for him.
This situation will all disintegrate into finger pointing shortly, I'm sure. JMO

 

[persimmon]

I am not a person who imagines themselves in a criminal investigation often, but I have to say if I ever were I would hire an attourney and not participate in polygraphs. Innocent, guilty of a crime, performing major surgery or re-wiring a house- there are times you hire a professional and follow their advice.

Despite what some people may think about innocent people not needing to hire an attorney, I 100% agree with you. In a missing child situation, I would talk to first responders regarding the necessary facts etc.. .but I would not agree to an interview without an attorney present.

 

[The Apparition]

Why did the dad willingly take 9 separate polygraphs?

Especially if he knew he failed the first 2. Those things are not even admissible. So why did he agree to all 9 of them

He didn't, he took 5. He gave 9 different statements to LE as I'm sure they kept asking him to tell them what happened. He also probably wanted to be seen as "compliant" and eager to help. To clear up something you had brought up earlier he also never said his phone was out of batteries, he said he didn't wan't to risk losing the signal that is why he drove down the road.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I wonder if they brought in the drones because of the cadaver hit?

 

[TeaTime]

VDK didn't seem to make any sense in this post

When Jessica was asked where do you think your son is her response was I think he still on the mountain and we have not found him and there blowing it was out the water

TR - Then why was she saying he was still on the mountain if you all believe he was abducted? Conflicting...

VDK: Like a tactic like are life's are not already destroyed they have nothing to go off to find my son they hit the same wall we did and le and now there just pushing hoping to mentally break us more but issue is I and we don't know more other then my world is missing but they fully believe different and no way for me to prove different so them putting public pressure all it does is further mentally mess us up like having a missing child and not knowing what to do is not hard enough and then of coarse your face book dectives which anyone who believes everything you see and read on fb there judgement is not very credible to begin with if you really think about it[/COLOR]

Here is my translation.

VDK - "When Jessica was asked 'where do you think your son is?', her response was 'I think he is still on the mountain'. And, we have not found him and they (KIC) are blowing it way out of the water."

TR - "Why is she saying he is still on the mountain if you all believe he was abducted? Conflicting ..."

VDK obviously does not even hear this question, he is still on the other issue - the one about Klein saying that JM said she knows where the body is located.

VDK: "It's just a tactic. As though our lives are not already destroyed, now they (KIC) twist our words to make us look bad. They have nothing to go on to find my son because they hit the same wall that we and LE hit, so now they are just grabbing at straws and hoping to mentally break us more. But the problem is that we don't know more - other than my world is missing. But KIC believes differently and there is no way for me to prove they are wrong. Having them put public pressure on us like this does nothing to find DeOrr, it only increases our mental distress as if having a missing child and not knowing what to do is not hard enough. And then of course, there are the fb detectives but, anyone who believes everything they see and read on fb doesn't really have any credible judgment anyway."

Now it makes sense.​

Just as I was wondering, seems like JM said he is still on the mountain - not a specific location or a burial site.

 

[Little Ol Me]

Personally I'm not that impressed by Mr. Kline's new statement, nor, the new interview.

IMO, he hasn't revealed anything that hasn't already been stated by SB. Including a possible cadaver dog hit.
They have just used different wording.
The only new item is that IR has spoken to Kline, or one of his investigators.

The good thing is it's more media coverage about and for Deorr. More pressure on the suspects, and POI's to come forward, hopefully.

 

[TeaTime]

What? This is horrible and an abomination to the English language, is he really that illiterate? jmo

Most people talk like this, you would be surprised. Speech never reads well, especially when the transcription is full of typos and has incorrect or no punctuation. Not putting down the transcriber by any means, just saying - I have read thousands of depositions - the way people talk reads poorly.

 

[kammiemc]

I hope neither JM or VDK are left alone for the foreseeable future - desperate people can make awful life choices when things are looking hopeless...

Note: I'm not saying this because I care about either of them - I care about DeOrr Jr being located & laid to rest.

Well, I think we can say they already made one horrible, terrible prolonged, hopefully panicked and desperate (if not, despicably pre-planned) life choice to cover up the death of their toddler and pull the charade of all charades on their friends, family, LE and the public for eight months. So, yeah, they are prime candidates for making another one.


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[TeaTime]

The cadaver dog hit is new. SB just kept it under his vest.