ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #23

[Hoosier952]

The good thing about this is whether they were observed from afar or closely accompanied the odds are diminished that a body move occurred within the first several weeks.
VDK is shrewd to a point imo And a body move is definitely within the realm of possibilities.
I wonder how much opportunity they had to do such on later visits. I'm only aware of one family organized search.
Anyone know if their were others?

It is rumored they (family) were up there every weekend looking. I don't know if ALL of the family were there, if the parents were there, if grandparents were there, etc. I do hope LE knew of these searches and had someone there to keep tabs on everyone if they were happening.

 

[ModernAudrey]

Most people talk like this, you would be surprised. Speech never reads well, especially when the transcription is full of typos and has incorrect or no punctuation. Not putting down the transcriber by any means, just saying - I have read thousands of depositions - the way people talk reads poorly.

Was this from a transcription? I thought it was something he posted on Facebook. I could be wrong, though.

 

[neesaki]

The good thing about this is whether they were observed from afar or closely accompanied the odds are diminished that a body move occurred within the first several weeks.
VDK is shrewd to a point imo And a body move is definitely within the realm of possibilities.
I wonder how much opportunity they had to do such on later visits. I'm only aware of one family organized search.
Anyone know if their were others?

I agree about the shrewd, and don't forget about the other one Klein mentioned that knows something. Is there some other reason they chose that remote campsite?

 

[courtneyb]

Catching up.
I agree totally and this is a good observation you made.

When they first had to call 911 to report him missing they had to develop a "main lie" about what happened. But they would only need to lie about the things they needed to lie about. I think most liars would keep the truth about the "small stuff". There is no sense in making their lie more elaborate than it needed to be.

In fact, their main story lie was so simple and generic it is what made everyone's eyebrows raise off the top of our heads. It was too simple.

It was so simple they forgot to make sure to include details about who was where and exactly where everyone was when he went missing. Which is why there is so much confusion and multiple stories about fishing and leaving the boy with grandpa or he was sleeping or any number of other versions they ended up with. It was a critical error they made that they made their story so simple they forgot to make sure it made sense.

But one thing they would not do is lie about the small things like what he would be wearing. So it makes total sense the boy died early that morning or the night before and was in his PJs.



Anyway, great observation you had.

I also believe that they inserted bits of truth into their lies as a means of rationalizing the story they were telling. That's why I think that DeOrr was very likely also "filthy" and "bawling" some time very near to his death. Those are pretty strong descriptors and the rumor didn't actually help their case. "Yeah, that was me, but.." And I would have wanted to ask, "WHY was he filthy and bawling?"



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[Cricket99]

Since the day it was mentioned that the group had dinner at the local cafe/tavern I have wondered if they waited until the baby was asleep and when they took notice of him again he had died of hypothermia. Could have been in a vehicle outside the tavern or left at the campsite. You know how little ones toss their blankets off. Just a thought. It gets pretty cold in the mountains at night. Regardless of what happened, I have always thought this was an accident brought on by neglect. The parents behavior after on SM is what has puzzled me, though. I have no answer for that.

 

[courtneyb]

I am not thinking that JM said, "he is still on that mountain!" And they jumped on it and said, "she knows where the body is!" VDK is a liar and a suspect in his child's death. I am not understanding any scenario where I believe what he says over an investigator who makes a statement, emphasizing his work WITH LE, who hasn't publicly had his hand slapped by LE for making statements that are off the cuff or untrue. I absolutely believe that JM said that she knows where his body is and in a way that leaves no room for interpretation no matter how a desperate VDK tries to twist it as he has in his NINE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT statements to LE.


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[Beezneez]

I also believe that they inserted bits of truth into their lies as a means of rationalizing the story they were telling. That's why I think that DeOrr was very likely also "filthy" and "bawling" some time very near to his death. Those are pretty strong descriptors and the rumor didn't actually help their case. "Yeah, that was me, but.." And I would have wanted to ask, "WHY was he filthy and bawling?"



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I hate these parents. My mind goes to when my kids were little. 2 years old means tired tantrums & curious exploring and pushing the rules. They're called terrible twos for a reason. Most kids have parents that understand they are dealing with little hurricanes & take care of them as such. Parenting is turning our wild animal little kids into functioning people. These parents are just totally out in left field.

 

[Angiebla]

The good thing about this is whether they were observed from afar or closely accompanied the odds are diminished that a body move occurred within the first several weeks.
VDK is shrewd to a point imo And a body move is definitely within the realm of possibilities.
I wonder how much opportunity they had to do such on later visits. I'm only aware of one family organized search.
Anyone know if their were others?

I do know they camped out there for an extended time, and refused to leave. That makes me think they moved the body more than once.

 

[Angiebla]

Here's the thing that bothers me. The parents care more about what the public says about them, than they do giving Deorr a proper burial. If it was an accident-accidents happen (especially with 2 year olds!) the public would have been a lot more forgiving if they told the truth. Now the public thinks they murdered their child. Even when confronted with evidence, they lie, lie, lie. They brought this whole thing on themselves. I have absolutely no sympathy for them. They make ​themselves look bad.

 

[Hatfield]

VDK didn't seem to make any sense in this post

......snipped for focus......



VDK: Like a tactic like...........hoping to mentally break us more......

Snipped out part of his reply that struck me as feeling guilty. A guilty party wanting to hold firm and not let LE break them.

The use of the word "more" at the end shows signs that cracks have already started. Tactics are working.

 

[gliving]

It seems like the only reason they have gotten away with it for so long is because it's hard to get past how/why someone would do or say things that are so blatantly stupid.


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Especially about your missing child. Instead of telling the truth, they call in 300 searchers, dogs, helicopters, divers, Special FBI units, tons of money, etc. It's mind boggling!

One has to consider if they might be delusional. ??

 

[neesaki]

Snipped out part of his reply that struck me as feeling guilty. A guilty party wanting to hold firm and not let LE break them.

The use of the word "more" at the end shows signs that cracks have already started. Tactics are working.

Good point, Hatfield.

 

[neesaki]

Especially about your missing child. Instead of telling the truth, they call in 300 searchers, dogs, helicopters, divers, Special FBI units, tons of money, etc. It's mind boggling!

One has to consider if they might be delusional. ??

And exceptionally devious and deceptive.

 

[DatelineFan]

Yes, very helpful and it will really change
s the way I look at cases. If JM and VDK have had somebody assigned to them day and night, then their communication has been quite limited. Thanks for sharing this info!

No problem! I wanted to get more information. I didn't want to sound like a smart a$$.

 

[Tr.]

I also believe that they inserted bits of truth into their lies as a means of rationalizing the story they were telling.
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Great point. I've tried sifting through the interviews for clues to any possible truths..my list is short. I don't know what you call this when a person speaks differently when they lie vs when they're truthful. But from what I've observed Jessica reverts to speaking like a teenager when she's fabricating..do you know what i mean. I can point it out in the various interview clips. And VDK has no less than three tell tale signs of a liar when he speaks.

 

[Beezneez]

Great point. I've tried sifting through the interviews for clues to any possible truths..my list is short. I don't know what you call this when a person speaks differently when they lie vs when they're truthful. But from what I've observed Jessica reverts to speaking like a teenager when she's fabricating..do you know what i mean. I can point it out in the various interview clips. And VDK has no less than three tell tale signs of a liar when he speaks.

Good catch! I admire LE, professional gamblers & psychologists for their savvy in human nuances! I'm a nurse so I am constantly trying to suss out the whole story from my patients! What are his clues? I can see her reverting to immature speech patterns.

 

[persimmon]

No problem! I wanted to get more information. I didn't want to sound like a smart a$$.

Lol....I know you're not a smart *advertiser censored**. I just never knew and wanted to answer her question.

 

[neesaki]

Great point. I've tried sifting through the interviews for clues to any possible truths..my list is short. I don't know what you call this when a person speaks differently when they lie vs when they're truthful. But from what I've observed Jessica reverts to speaking like a teenager when she's fabricating..do you know what i mean. I can point it out in the various interview clips. And VDK has no less than three tell tale signs of a liar when he speaks.

Yeah, it's interesting isn't it? Considering they're not professionals , they're somewhat self educated to some degree on the art of deception. Just wondering where they learned that?

ETA: On the other hand, is this standard fare for the millennials?

 

[Tr.]

Good catch! I admire LE, professional gamblers & psychologists for their savvy in human nuances! I'm a nurse so I am constantly trying to suss out the whole story from my patients! What are his clues? I can see her reverting to immature speech patterns.

Well, according to the experts and articles I've read, constant use of the word "I", constant unfinished sentences, constant control over the conversation with rambling are afew. I probably should dig up a link...but there's a lot of great reading on line about spotting a liar.

 

[Hatfield]

Great point. I've tried sifting through the interviews for clues to any possible truths..my list is short. I don't know what you call this when a person speaks differently when they lie vs when they're truthful. But from what I've observed Jessica reverts to speaking like a teenager when she's fabricating..do you know what i mean. I can point it out in the various interview clips. And VDK has no less than three tell tale signs of a liar when he speaks.

I think it is called a "tell" or an "indicator".
A "tell" like in poker is a change in a player's behavior or demeanor.

When lying, there are certain "tells" or "indicators". Everyone is different and for some people they do give themselves away rather obviously where with others it can be difficult to tell if they are lying. When I am fibbing with my wife I always give myself away because I start to smile or giggle. I cant help myself.

I found a link and I think it describes what you are talking about. Here is part of it and Bolded the part that you may be talking about for Jessica:

"
If you are wondering if someone is lying, look for verbal changes like:
more pauses
slower speech
stuttering
elevated pitch


Facial expressions

Watching a person’s face when he or she is talking can tell you a lot about whether the person is lying, since it is difficult to control facial expressions and the emotions behind them.

A few facial signs to watch for that may suggest that someone is lying:
expressions that don’t match the words that are being said (saying “I love you” with an angry scowl)
expressions that don’t match the timing of the words (saying “Wonderful!” and not smiling until a few seconds later)

Here are some other facial signs that a person might be lying:
hiding emotions (showing no emotion)
masking real emotions with false ones
showing emotion when none is felt

Experts also recommend focusing on the eyes and forehead, which are harder areas of the face to control than the mouth and cheeks. It’s in these areas where honest emotion can be more easily detected.
"

http://sciencenetlinks.com/student-teacher-sheets/all-about-lying-honest/