ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #23

[CoverMeCagney]

Didn't I read somewhere quite early on something along the lines of them knowing that little DeOrr had died and that evidence had indicated HOW he'd died? Or am I way off and thinking of another case? I've not been well and done a lot of reading the last few nights into the early hours, I should have saved links to articles. If that was the case then surely the evidence would be blood, specifically HIS, to be so certain?

You're right, and I think it was Klein who said "we know HOW he died but not WHY he died". A bold statement, and I can only assume it refers to Grandpas apparent claim that there was an accident of some sort.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

The shovel.
Didn't Bowerman say a shovel was in GGP's camper? The shovel that had a hair on it which blew away.
Why was the shovel inside the camper rather than outside? Were they trying to hide it? Was this the piece of equipment Klein was talking about?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Then Phillip Klein dropped the bombshell--Jessica Mitchell not only knows her son is dead but where his body is. She has confirmed that to police and investigators. Phillip Klein emphasized that there was a positive hit from a cadaver dog. He declined to answer whether if was from the cremains but asserted that this was vital to the prosecution.

http://www.examiner.com/article/mis...om-jessica-mitchell-knows-where-son-s-body-is

 

[Mickshawn]

VDK didn't seem to make any sense in this post

When Jessica was asked where do you think your son is her response was I think he still on the mountain and we have not found him and there blowing it was out the water

TR - Then why was she saying he was still on the mountain if you all believe he was abducted? Conflicting...

VDK: Like a tactic like are life's are not already destroyed they have nothing to go off to find my son they hit the same wall we did and le and now there just pushing hoping to mentally break us more but issue is I and we don't know more other then my world is missing but they fully believe different and no way for me to prove different so them putting public pressure all it does is further mentally mess us up like having a missing child and not knowing what to do is not hard enough and then of coarse your face book dectives which anyone who believes everything you see and read on fb there judgement is not very credible to begin with if you really think about it[/COLOR]

Here is my translation.

VDK - "When Jessica was asked 'where do you think your son is?', her response was 'I think he is still on the mountain'. And, we have not found him and they (KIC) are blowing it way out of the water."

TR - "Why is she saying he is still on the mountain if you all believe he was abducted? Conflicting ..."

VDK obviously does not even hear this question, he is still on the other issue - the one about Klein saying that JM said she knows where the body is located.

VDK: "It's just a tactic. As though our lives are not already destroyed, now they (KIC) twist our words to make us look bad. They have nothing to go on to find my son because they hit the same wall that we and LE hit, so now they are just grabbing at straws and hoping to mentally break us more. But the problem is that we don't know more - other than my world is missing. But KIC believes differently and there is no way for me to prove they are wrong. Having them put public pressure on us like this does nothing to find DeOrr, it only increases our mental distress as if having a missing child and not knowing what to do is not hard enough. And then of course, there are the fb detectives but, anyone who believes everything they see and read on fb doesn't really have any credible judgment anyway."

Now it makes sense.​

Just as I was wondering, seems like JM said he is still on the mountain - not a specific location or a burial site.

TeaTime...TY SOOOOO much for translating.....I could not figure it all out!!

 

[skinnycat]

I wonder if IR and VDK could have been off fishing. Now having comments being made that JM knows where DeOrr is and no comments that VDK knows is making me wonder if he didn't get back to finding out DeOrr was no longer there.

VDK babbles I think he would have dropped a bit of truth unwittingly I might add, I don't see him as an intellectual scholar, I see him as a simple man (nothing wrong with being a simple man, they usually trust everyone and are good people) wide eyed wonder at all the rescue people, I don't think that he has the ability to word game people, I just don't get a conniving feeling from him

If it was a terrible accident, I can't see covering it up,if RW killed DeOrr what does JM or VDK have to gain from covering for him, they can't charge the parents with being stupid for leaving a child with an elderly man that may or may not have mental health issues along with breathing difficulties. I keep thinking of the first time that a reporter talked to IR, when asked about what happened IR asked the reporter about what RW had said.

Could JM have killed and pretty much covered up DeOrrs death all on her own, then she had to tell VDK and RW so they decide to help her by making up the DeOrr wandered off while RW was watching him story,

There are just so many unknowns,poor little DeOrr so many what if's in his short little life

 

[pepelepolecat]

"Today we’re going to announce that there was a cadaver dog interaction with certain equipment at the site and that cadaver dog did hit positive. I can’t go any further than that other than we do have a dog that did hit in the initial two weeks of the primary investigation."

Early on, some had speculated about his body being dumped into the outhouse toilet. I wonder if it's there and the first round of dogs missed it? That wouldn't be unheard of with all the chemicals used in outhouses. However, you'd think it was searched back in July...Just thinking outloud here.

iirc, it was completely pumped out and searched.

 

[Rayemonde]

Who can know with any exactitude the way things are being "released, hemmed and hawed, and dribbled out"? If she said "on the mountain," well that ain't exactly the "evidence" we were promised, is it?

I don't think Klein would lie like that in this situation. He would risk destroying his reputation and getting into trouble with LE and the FBI for it.

 

[Hatfield]

.

There are still too many things amiss in this whole situation.

They would have no reason to cover up an accident unless there was something about the "accident" that implicated the parents or GGF .... such as the child "accidentally" consuming an illegal drug stash .... or someone was driving impaired and "accidentally" ran over the kid .... or they let the kid ride in the back of the truck and he fell out

The parents must have a reason for not telling everything . For all we know GGP maybe "accidentally" did something negligent and they are covering for him. All kinds of possibilities. If that was the case the trip to the store was a ruse that enabled them to get rid of the body.

I still have my reservations about Klein .... what triggered this outpouring of information all of a sudden ??? ... I doubt he uncovered it himself .... maybe he is simply being the mouthpiece accuser on behalf of LE to make the parents sweat a bit. He better have his azz covered because those are pretty strong accusations to make without any real evidence.


No Mountain Lions were abused in the construction of this post

Yea, there are still so many possibilities of what could have happened up there. Its hard to develop a good theory based on so little known.

One thing that could tie in the dogs hitting on "equipment" could be maybe an ATV. For example if they were letting Deorr ride on back of the ATV and he fell off the back and hit his head. If that happened toward evening and the other 2 were fishing then they could claim boy is sleeping when they got back.

I do think it would be easy for the parents to fool IR and maybe even fool GGP too that morning while they got rid of the boys body. If the boy passed away during the night then all it would take is for one of them to get up much earlier than the others and go for a drive in the vehicle.
If any of the other 2 ever questioned where they went they would say they had to run up to the store for something.

Then at some point early that morning as the others begin to wake up the parents just meander away from the campground on foot and come back and start the charade and start questioning everyone where is Deorr.

There are a lot of different possibilities but I do think it would be easy for the parents to fool the others.

With the way GGP called 911 too I do have to wonder if he was recruited to be part of the coverup plan. He may know what really happened.
I tend to think IR was left in the dark on things but he more or less knows what happened.

The only other theory I keep leaning towards is leaving boy in vehicle while they went to the restaurant Thursday night. May have left him in vehicle while they were inside and if they stayed too long in restaurant then boy could have succumbed to hypothermia.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I want Bowerman to make a statement. It's not because I don't believe Klein. I think Klein is the bomb. The family (every time I hear that word I think of the Manson family) needs some hard sense knocked into them. They think Klein is making everything up. But now that I think about it, nothing is going to knock any sense into them until JM/DK/GGP give it up. Nah...I don't even know if that would wake them up.

 

[Rayemonde]

At least this puts the "DeOrr was never even on the camping trip" theory to rest. If they had killed and disposed of him before even going camping, that would make it extremely difficult for LE to ever find his body or put a case together.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Did they take an ATV to the campground? I don't remember hearing that as a fact.

 

[Rayemonde]

I want Bowerman to make a statement. It's not because I don't believe Klein. I think Klein is the bomb. The family (every time I hear that word I think of the Manson family) needs some hard sense knocked into them. They think Klein is making everything up. But now that I think about it, nothing is going to knock any sense into them until JM/DK/GGP give it up. Nah...I don't even know if that would wake them up.

I think they already know, tbh. I'm not saying they know exactly what happened, but they must know that the stories don't add up and that J and V are hiding something. None of the family have ever really acted as though they believed there was an abduction - if you really thought there was even a tiny chance that your grandson/ nephew was still alive and being held captive by some pedophile somewhere, wouldn't you be working hard to try and find them? Wouldn't you be kicking up a huge fuss about it? Instead there is this silence. Because they know there is 0% chance of that, imo.

 

[Hatfield]

At least this puts the "DeOrr was never even on the camping trip" theory to rest. If they had killed and disposed of him before even going camping, that would make it extremely difficult for LE to ever find his body or put a case together.

Yea. I had that theory for a long time too. The way the trip was planned so quickly and how it seemed so hodge podge.

I do worry about them having the opportunity to move the body after getting worried the searchers were getting close to finding him. I tend to think the boy is up in that general area but how many X miles is the problem. They could have got him pretty far away. Lets hope he is still in the general area and lets hope dogs can find him as soon as they go back searching again.

I also hope LE has been taping their phones and keeping tabs of where they are going. LE needs a break in this case and it would be nice if the parents give them the break themselves.

 

[Hatfield]

Did they take an ATV to the campground? I don't remember hearing that as a fact.

I don't think we ever know one way or the other but I seem to recall pictures of VDK near his truck during the search and there were ATVs near the truck I believe. His truck I believe had a flat open bed and so it seemed possible they brought one up there.

That would have been a good question to ask the parents during the 1st news interview or Klein should be asked if he was ever to confirm that or not.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

At least this puts the "DeOrr was never even on the camping trip" theory to rest. If they had killed and disposed of him before even going camping, that would make it extremely difficult for LE to ever find his body or put a case together.

But we now have a 8am to 2:26pm "window" in which they could hide him and cover their tracks. He could be miles and miles away. My gut feeling is VDK hid something (not DeOrr) when he hauled up the road for a signal, there's a reason he did that.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

But we now have a 8am to 2:26pm "window" in which they could hide him and cover their tracks. He could be miles and miles away. My gut feeling is VDK hid something (not DeOrr) when he hauled up the road for a signal, there's a reason he did that.

What do you think he hid?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Did they take an ATV to the campground? I don't remember hearing that as a fact.

Pretty sure VDK's brother in law brought the ATV up there when he went up to help search. No source, it was a question answered on FB by a family member.

 

[alreetlike]

I don't have much to add to the discussion but I've read and digested all of the latest information/statements etc. I'm really impatient now, this just needs to be resolved.

 

[ClaireNC]

I don't think we ever know one way or the other but I seem to recall pictures of VDK near his truck during the search and there were ATVs near the truck I believe. His truck I believe had a flat open bed and so it seemed possible they brought one up there.

That would have been a good question to ask the parents during the 1st news interview or Klein should be asked if he was ever to confirm that or not.

I really don't think they had an ATV with them when they went camping. They used their BIL's ATV during the search.

 

[Hatfield]

But we now have a 8am to 2:26pm "window" in which they could hide him and cover their tracks. He could be miles and miles away. My gut feeling is VDK hid something (not DeOrr) when he hauled up the road for a signal, there's a reason he did that.

JMO
His story about driving up the road to get a signal was the biggest load of crap. And here is why we know it was a lie.

The way he described it was so fake. He added some part about "not wanting the call to drop while he made the call".

If you were really going to call 911 to report your boy missing you would NOT first wait and go drive down the road first to an area you knew you got a signal before. You would be trying to call the whole darn time. You would call, no signal, keep driving. Call again, no signal, keep driving.
etc.

He said he wanted to go drive down that road first because he didn't want the call to drop while he made the call. NAH! It doesn't work that way in real life emergency.

He was on that road for other reasons.

Finding out all 3 called 911 was also not how its done. One person calls and others would be searching.

ETA: I think the reason they decided that each one would call 911 is in their stupid plan they thought this would be more convincing to LE. They felt if all 3 called saying the boy is missing that their story would be more believable. It is the opposite effect. It doesn't work that way in real life emergency. They would all be discussing and someone would volunteer and say....OK., I am going to call 911.

They saw too many movies and multiple people call 911 only when the situation is like a shooting incident OR a bank robbery with multiple witnesses seeing the live event happening.
Not when your group is looking for your boy.