ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #23

[courtneyb]

Have they said if there were guns with them on the trip and if so, we're they tested to see if they had recently been fired? Or swabbed their hands for gunpowder residue?



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[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Pretty sure VDK's brother in law brought the ATV up there when he went up to help search. No source, it was a question answered on FB by a family member.

No ATV prior to the search would rule out an ATV accident of course.

I said earlier than I think something happened during the night due to him being in pajama pants when he "disappeared." I think that's where I'll stay.

 

[Catherine1]

In all my life I've used 911 maybe three times. serious accidents and such. Number one, I always remember saying " please hurry". And, I would of definitely called LE back back when they hadn't showed up within 20 min! Just saying.
Also, I found it interesting that Klein when asked int his latest interview if he thought Djr could of been burned and he says " No comment". Does this mean there is evidence of burning?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Have they said if there were guns with them on the trip and if so, we're they tested to see if they had recently been fired? Or swabbed their hands for gunpowder residue?




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Nothing has been said about firearms but if they owned any, which they probably did, I'd think some were taken along because of the remoteness of the campground for protection against lions and tigers and bears.

 

[Hatfield]

I really don't think they had an ATV with them when they went camping. They used their BIL's ATV during the search.

If they ended up moving the body because searchers were closing in and they used the BIL ATV to transport the boy then I suppose the dogs could have still hit on an ATV.

The "equipment" comment from Kline is driving me crazy. Not sure an ATV would qualify as equipment or not.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I have a question about cadaver dogs hitting on something. Would the article have to have physical evidence on it, or could an article just laying close to a cadaver have a scent on it that would attract a dog to it?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

If they ended up moving the body because searchers were closing in and they used the BIL ATV to transport the boy then I suppose the dogs could have still hit on an ATV.

The "equipment" comment from Kline is driving me crazy. Not sure an ATV would qualify as equipment or not.

I think equipment equals shovel. I checked Bowerman's comment and he did say the shovel was in GGP's trailer. If I remember correctly, the axe and coveralls were found outside of the camper. The shovel being inside the camper is suspicious to me.

 

[Hatfield]

I have a question about cadaver dogs hitting on something. Would the article have to have physical evidence on it, or could an article just laying close to a cadaver have a scent on it that would attract a dog to it?

I have had a bird dog once that had a great nose and I think I can answer.

Dogs nose is amazing and if an article like clothing was laying near a body then the fumes from the body would get soaked in the cloth and I do think a dog could pick up the scent.

There does not have to be physical contact so long as the fumes can soak into an article like clothing. Small air particles transferring to the cloth or something like that.

 

[Catherine1]

No ATV prior to the search would rule out an ATV accident of course.

I said earlier than I think something happened during the night due to him being in pajama pants when he "disappeared." I think that's where I'll stay.

I also think whatever happened, happened early like in the morning due to Djr attire. Can't imagine what could of killed the baby in the middle of the night?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

What do you think he hid?

Dunno. Maybe the infamous wellies or something else he'd have been wearing if he genuinely wandered off. Or some other evidence. There has to be something, he didn't drive up there because he was desperate for signal.

This accident happening at 8am explains why there was little trace of DeOrr at the campsite, I'd bet he went straight to bed when they arrived the night before. One thing is confusing me though, didn't SB say that IR had confirmed he had seen DeOrr at 1pm ish when they got back from the store? Maybe it was more "yes he saw him [at some point] and yes they got back at 1ish".

 

[pepelepolecat]

I also believe that they inserted bits of truth into their lies as a means of rationalizing the story they were telling. That's why I think that DeOrr was very likely also "filthy" and "bawling" some time very near to his death. Those are pretty strong descriptors and the rumor didn't actually help their case. "Yeah, that was me, but.." And I would have wanted to ask, "WHY was he filthy and bawling?"



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Nighttime accident = filthy baby = POd parents = yet another of those infamous potty-training tragedies

He was two. They're so utterly adorable at that age. We never had anything like the "terrible twos" with ours (although we certainly had what we called the ferocious fours, where they started asserting some of their independence and opinions, lol). At two, toddlers have learned how to charm their parents and everyone else, they are little hams, they love getting positive attention, they want desperately to please the big people in their lives. They are both beautifully sweet and completely defenseless. There is never a reason to hurt a two-year-old, and everything in me revolts against the idea of "discipline" going too far = accident. (disclaimer: I'm not saying that's what happened here. Just commenting in general).

 

[pepelepolecat]

I have a question about cadaver dogs hitting on something. Would the article have to have physical evidence on it, or could an article just laying close to a cadaver have a scent on it that would attract a dog to it?

Which makes me wonder about that blanket. If my toddler had a security item, wouldn't one want that to be buried with the baby?

 

[courtneyb]

Nighttime accident = filthy baby = POd parents = yet another of those infamous potty-training tragedies

He was two. They're so utterly adorable at that age. We never had anything like the "terrible twos" with ours (although we certainly had what we called the ferocious fours, where they started asserting some of their independence and opinions, lol). At two, toddlers have learned how to charm their parents and everyone else, they are little hams, they love getting positive attention, they want desperately to please the big people in their lives. They are both beautifully sweet and completely defenseless. There is never a reason to hurt a two-year-old, and everything in me revolts against the idea of "discipline" going too far = accident. (disclaimer: I'm not saying that's what happened here. Just commenting in general).

I 100% agree. I've seen too many cases of parents losing it and hurting their children over potty training accidents. The use of the word "filthy" indicates disgust, IMO, and I think JM was telling a little bit there with the use of that word. I also agree about the "terrible twos" not being as bad for us as the super independent phase all of mine entered at about age 4, where they just dig their heels in and only do what they want to do with a stubbornness that I've not seen rivaled by any other age group. My 4 year old decided and could not be swayed that he only eats Cheez-Its, chicken and chocolate milk. None of our super smart tactics managed to change his mind or trick him into doing otherwise. We have now, a year and a half later, convinced him to add gummy vitamins, corn, and Skittles to his diet, so... progress? But, at age 2? He was still a baby who saw his whole world in the faces of Mom and Dad. And what a horrible world JM and VDK showed DeOrr.

 

[neesaki]

I read this post earlier, probably in real time, and it's been resonating to me all day.
Interesting.

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Where are you reading these posts? TIA

 

[jnblsm]

Where are you reading these posts? TIA

Read it here. I had jumped ahead for possible breaking news, then went back to where I'd left off.
The second time I read it, I realized it had stuck with me

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[neesaki]

JMO
His story about driving up the road to get a signal was the biggest load of crap. And here is why we know it was a lie.

The way he described it was so fake. He added some part about "not wanting the call to drop while he made the call".

If you were really going to call 911 to report your boy missing you would NOT first wait and go drive down the road first to an area you knew you got a signal before. You would be trying to call the whole darn time. You would call, no signal, keep driving. Call again, no signal, keep driving.
etc.

He said he wanted to go drive down that road first because he didn't want the call to drop while he made the call. NAH! It doesn't work that way in real life emergency.

He was on that road for other reasons.

Finding out all 3 called 911 was also not how its done. One person calls and others would be searching.

ETA: I think the reason they decided that each one would call 911 is in their stupid plan they thought this would be more convincing to LE. They felt if all 3 called saying the boy is missing that their story would be more believable. It is the opposite effect. It doesn't work that way in real life emergency. They would all be discussing and someone would volunteer and say....OK., I am going to call 911.

They saw too many movies and multiple people call 911 only when the situation is like a shooting incident OR a bank robbery with multiple witnesses seeing the live event happening.
Not when your group is looking for your boy.

ITA. And do we know which road he was "hauling" up? I can't remember, TIA.

 

[Ekkwhine]

How easily is IR led do you think? Could the 1pm sighting not actually be an actual, physical sighting of DeOrr but rather being told he's somewhere.

"Where's De'Orr?"
"Oh he's playing over there/taking a nap/looking at a book in the trailer" kind of thing followed by a swift change of subject. Could he have 'thought' he saw him as he was led to think that?

 

[neesaki]

Read it here. I had jumped ahead for possible breaking news, then went back to where I'd left off.
The second time I read it, I realized it had stuck with me

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Oh, I thought you were talking about FB posts.

 

[Onebest]

I would be interested to know how exactly JM admitted to knowing where DeOrr's body is. What were her exact words... Because if she had admitted it explicitly, it seems like she wouldn't be backtracking now the way she seems to be...

Did she say "Yes" or even just nod her head when they asked her if she knew, and then break down crying and not say anything else?

If she'd actually said something like "Yes, I know where he is but I'm not telling you where" it seems like she wouldn't be denying it now....

Did she actually deny it?

 

[Onebest]

I have a question about cadaver dogs hitting on something. Would the article have to have physical evidence on it, or could an article just laying close to a cadaver have a scent on it that would attract a dog to it?

The dogs most likely would hit on the actual location of the scent source.

I am wondering if the item was examined by forensics/FBI and what was discovered if anything?