Italy - Sailing yacht sank off Italian coast, 15 rescued, 7 missing, 19 August 2024

[Baby baby Jane]

Yacht friend saying the keel, partially retracted, made the yacht less stable. The keel in full extension puts counterbalance weight lower requiring more force above water to push it over at extreme angle.
Extended keel has more surface area in water & increased weight of water means more force needed to topple the boat.

However, says experienced captain, making decisions based on experience would not necessarily be at fault for having partially retracted in shallower water, in a “safe harbor” at anchor. It’s possible that this is indicated for this ship in any guidance materials. Shallow coastal water is exactly why it retracts.
His view also that ship builder came out loud and strong that it was not fault of the ship design. Saying will be interesting to understand how recent renovations and tech upgrades may have modified / altered performance from original 2007 build. Also when retracting keel is indicated or not indicated in builders guidance. Possible that retracting was indicated by depth or by GPS tech.

Last comment he says end Aug /Early Sept weather/winds often extreme and unexpected in Med. Says these weeks most often when boats at anchor end up on the beach or colliding in isolated areas.

 

[RedHaus]

Yacht friend saying...

RSBM
Thank you for sharing. Up thread we covered a lot of these complexities regarding the keel and angles, primarily from the technical analysis posted by a former Bayesian Captain that @ItalyReader shared. Fascinating.

FWIW, it was reported early on the Bayesian was anchored a 0.5 mile off shore. While likely not shallow water there, the former Bayesian Captain said the keel position is usually up when not sailing, regardless of the depth of water. Of course many here wonder why it wasn't dropped if there were severe weather alerts, which the yacht's builder claims were hard to ignore.

Also you probably know this already, but the Bayesian now rests in about 160 feet deep water and was pushed by the extreme wind event about 1,000 feet from where it was anchored. That concurs with what your friend said about weather events this time of year causing problems.

Speaking of which, here is the weather record of the Bayesian downspout 19/8 ~3:50am I posted earlier this evening. Dramatic!

 

[bmacmillan1]

Bayesian captain 'did everything he could to save passengers'

James Cutfield was one of 22 people on board the Bayesian when it was devastated by a freak waterspout just a few hundred metres away from Porticello port in the early hours of August 19

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SouthAussie]

Bayesian captain 'did everything he could to save passengers'

James Cutfield was one of 22 people on board the Bayesian when it was devastated by a freak waterspout just a few hundred metres away from Porticello port in the early hours of August 19

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sounds as though all of the surviving people from the yacht are on the "same side".

Mario Scopesi, who is the lawyer for Parker-Eaton and Griffiths, was hired for them by Revtom - the company that owns the Bayesian superyacht and whose sole director is Mr Lynch's wife Angela Bacares. (as per your link)

imo

 

[Tortoise]

That's not very helpful to investigators, his refusal to answer questions. I don't like it. He should be in a calm enough state now, as a captain, and rather than a defence, only truth matters. IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

That's not very helpful to investigators, his refusal to answer questions. I don't like it. He should be in a calm enough state now, as a captain, and rather than a defence, only truth matters. IMO

He was very cooperative in his first two interviews. It is only now that he has these lawyers that his lawyers say that he is not speaking. Which is a very lawyerly thing to do. imo


Deputy prosecutor Raffaele Cammarano told reporters Cutfield had been “very cooperative” in answering questions.

Captain of Mike Lynch’s yacht is being investigated for manslaughter, lawyer says

James Cutfield, the captain of the Bayesian, is being investigated for manslaughter and for negligent shipwreck, a formal step needed for prosecutors to continue the probe.

fortune.com

 

[Tortoise]

He was very cooperative in his first two interviews. It is only now that he has these lawyers that his lawyers say that he is not speaking. Which is a very lawyerly thing to do. imo


Deputy prosecutor Raffaele Cammarano told reporters Cutfield had been “very cooperative” in answering questions.

Captain of Mike Lynch’s yacht is being investigated for manslaughter, lawyer says

James Cutfield, the captain of the Bayesian, is being investigated for manslaughter and for negligent shipwreck, a formal step needed for prosecutors to continue the probe.

fortune.com

Yes it's a lawyerly thing to do, but he could make his own choices as regards continued co-operation. Clearly they still have questions he hasn't answered. IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes it's a lawyerly thing to do, but he could make his own choices as regards continued co-operation. Clearly they still have questions he hasn't answered. IMO

It is not smart to go against the advice of your lawyers. He has cooperated. He has answered their questions.

The owner of the boat, who survived, is paying for the lawyer of the other two crew members who are being investigated.

The prosecutors allowed them to leave the country, to be with their wives again. They can ask (even more) questions via the lawyers, or by video conference in the presence of their lawyers.

The prosecutors were content for them to leave because the prosecutors can communicate with their lawyers. It says so in the DM article just above.

 

[Tortoise]

It is not smart to go against the advice of your lawyers. He has cooperated. He has answered their questions.

The owner of the boat, who survived, is paying for the lawyer of the other two crew members who are being investigated.

The prosecutors allowed them to leave the country, to be with their wives again. They can ask (even more) questions via the lawyers, or by video conference in the presence of their lawyers.

The prosecutors were content for them to leave because the prosecutors can communicate with their lawyers. It says so in the DM article just above.

I just think if there is nothing to hide there is no reason to exercise silence when they asked further questions.

 

[bmacmillan1]

It is not smart to go against the advice of your lawyers. He has cooperated. He has answered their questions.

The owner of the boat, who survived, is paying for the lawyer of the other two crew members who are being investigated.

The prosecutors allowed them to leave the country, to be with their wives again. They can ask (even more) questions via the lawyers, or by video conference in the presence of their lawyers.

The prosecutors were content for them to leave because the prosecutors can communicate with their lawyers. It says so in the DM article just above.

So the owner of the boat is not paying for the Captain's lawyer?

 

[SouthAussie]

I just think if there is nothing to hide there is no reason to exercise silence when they asked further questions.

I think we need to remember that the crew members have been traumatised also. Let them get their mental health back together. And physical health, in the case of the captain, as he was injured and hospitalised.

imo

 

[SouthAussie]

So the owner of the boat is not paying for the Captain's lawyer?

I don't know. The lawyer they spoke with said he was being paid by the owner of the boat (for two crew members). The captain has different lawyers. They may (or may not) also be paid by her company. They haven't said.

 

[bmacmillan1]

I think we need to remember that the crew members have been traumatised also. Let them get their mental health back together.

imo

I agree, all of the crew must be going through huge trauma now
I wonder if any of the crew will ever want to work or go near boats ever again...

 

[Dotta]

"Mike Lynch yacht sinking must be due to human error, ​

boss of boat builder says.​

Giovanni Costantino of group that owns Bayesian’s maker says
it could not have sunk unless a hatch was open."

Mike Lynch yacht sinking must be due to human error, boss of boat builder says

Giovanni Costantino of group that owns Bayesian’s maker says it could not have sunk unless a hatch was open

www.theguardian.com

 

[SouthAussie]

"Mike Lynch yacht sinking must be due to human error, ​

boss of boat builder says.​

Giovanni Costantino of group that owns Bayesian’s maker says
it could not have sunk unless a hatch was open."

Mike Lynch yacht sinking must be due to human error, boss of boat builder says

Giovanni Costantino of group that owns Bayesian’s maker says it could not have sunk unless a hatch was open

www.theguardian.com

As we have quoted, from a previous captain of that boat, the yacht can take on water through the ventilation vents .... when it heels to more than a 40-45 degree angle. There is also the possibility of windows smashing in the downdraft.

I think the boat builder had a knee-jerk reaction when he said those things .. which were said before the storm details were known or had started emerging.

imo

 

[Dotta]

I agree, all of the crew must be going through huge trauma now
I wonder if any of the crew will ever want to work or go near boats ever again...

This is not a job for everybody.

One has to have right predispositions.

This job is not easy.
And only those who have looked at beautiful photos and their knowledge ends there
call it a "dream job".

Sailing is more of a way of life
than just a source of income.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

As we have quoted, from a previous captain of that boat, the yacht can take on water through the ventilation vents .... when it heels to more than a 40-45 degree angle. There is also the possibility of windows smashing in the downdraft.

I think the boat builder had a knee-jerk reaction when he said those things .. which were said before the storm details were known or had started emerging.

imo

Hmmm....

Unfortunately,
"Human Factor"
is usually the culprit in all kinds of catastrophes

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Hmmm....

Unfortunately,
"Human Factor"
is usually the culprit in all kinds of catastrophes

JMO

Yes, human error can frequently contribute. I guess the big question is, were they trying to do everything as right as they could in that very short period of time. Were they actually consciously negligent ... or did this downdraft, and then the ocean, simply take over the boat. I mean, accidents DO happen.

imo

 

[RedHaus]

Bayesian captain 'did everything he could to save passengers'

James Cutfield was one of 22 people on board the Bayesian when it was devastated by a freak waterspout just a few hundred metres away from Porticello port in the early hours of August 19

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thanks for sharing, @bmacmillan1 . As much as I hate reading DM content they are certainly covering this tragic case...

I found this bit interesting near the end... more from the former Bayesian captain:

"...Stephen Edwards, who previously captained the Bayesian between 2015 - 2020, said he was 'one hundred per cent' sure the hull would not have been left open at night, adding that there are no opening windows or portholes on board."

"...he assured that the vessel was 'sound and seaworthy by design, and to my knowledge well maintained as such', claiming instead that the yacht's limitations may have been reached in the inclement weather conditions."

" 'How the vessel came to be taken outside her operation limits is what the investigators will need to determine, which I'm sure they will,' Edwards concluded."

 

[Dotta]

Yes, human error can frequently contribute. I guess the big question is, were they trying to do everything as right as they could in that very short period of time. Were they actually consciously negligent ... or did this downdraft, and then the ocean, simply take over the boat. I mean, accidents DO happen.

imo

I guess
lack of experience played a part.
And
the wrong conviction/assumptions concerning The Mediterranean Sea.

JMO