ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

[TxJan1971]

Have we ever found out the last verified person to see DeOrr (other than the 4 adult campers) alive and well? When and where?

When was baby last seen?

1/28/16
04:09
TG: Prior the camping trip, when was Deorr last seen by someone other than his parents? Do you know?

04:15
SB: You know I know Bonneville County detectives have followed up on that particular aspect of the investigation, but to the best of my knowledge, from the time that they left Idaho Falls on July 9th which was in the early afternoon or early evening, uh, you know we have not had a confirmation-- an absolute 100% positive, that someone saw Deorr, <snipped>, you know, so…um, but No, nobody has seen him prior to his going to Leadore.

1/28/16
SB: <snipped>, but then we also asked the clerk, did you see a child? Initially she didn’t even remember the parents, but when Vernal, the father, went back in there and quizzed her, she said, Oh, I remember you, but when he quizzed her about, do you remember seeing my son, she said, uh… I remember a child possibly, but I couldn’t tell if it was a male or a female.

and

Q&A w/ Klein/Bella's FB Page
Q: Sorry if this has been asked. When was the last time someone OTHER than Reinwand, Walton, Mitchell and Kunz saw DeOrr?

Q: Yeah, and not vague “well, there might have been a child in store” sightings... When was the last time someone definitely saw him in Idaho Falls? The extended family have never said when they last saw him. And did he seem healthy and happy the last time he was seen?


Klein Investigations and Consulting
There are none.

 

[Elle*Bee]

Are we sure ggp was on oxygen when they went camping? I was thinking he started needing it last winter. IR gave me the impression that he hadn't seen RW in awhile and had heard he'd been sick.

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I asked the same think right after IR's interview. I do recall IR mentioned that he had not seen GGP in a while and that he heard GGP is on oxygen now.

Is it possible that GGP wasn't on oxygen 24/7 last summer but required supplemental oxygen when camping in the higher altitude, and perhaps since then his condition deteriorated so that he needs oxygen all the time?

 

[MzOpinion8d]

It was me that posted [emoji4] I'm not sure what I think, it was just interesting to me because an oxygen tank really fits the description of "equipment" in my mind, more than say a car. I don't necessarily have a specific theory on how it could be involved, and I was not aware of the size of it, but I for sure consider that a piece of "equipment". Then again a shovel is too, just not a car in my mind I guess. JMO.

Where is "equipment" mentioned? Is that part of the evidence that's been collected?

 

[Mickshawn]

When was baby last seen?

1/28/16
04:09
TG: Prior the camping trip, when was Deorr last seen by someone other than his parents? Do you know?

04:15
SB: You know I know Bonneville County detectives have followed up on that particular aspect of the investigation, but to the best of my knowledge, from the time that they left Idaho Falls on July 9th which was in the early afternoon or early evening, uh, you know we have not had a confirmation-- an absolute 100% positive, that someone saw Deorr, <snipped>, you know, so&#8230;um, but No, nobody has seen him prior to his going to Leadore.

1/28/16
SB: <snipped>, but then we also asked the clerk, did you see a child? Initially she didn&#8217;t even remember the parents, but when Vernal, the father, went back in there and quizzed her, she said, Oh, I remember you, but when he quizzed her about, do you remember seeing my son, she said, uh&#8230; I remember a child possibly, but I couldn&#8217;t tell if it was a male or a female.

and

Q&A w/ Klein/Bella's FB Page
Q: Sorry if this has been asked. When was the last time someone OTHER than Reinwand, Walton, Mitchell and Kunz saw DeOrr?

Q: Yeah, and not vague &#8220;well, there might have been a child in store&#8221; sightings... When was the last time someone definitely saw him in Idaho Falls? The extended family have never said when they last saw him. And did he seem healthy and happy the last time he was seen?


Klein Investigations and Consulting
There are none.

Oh yes, I remember this....This is when my brain said...."Is DeOrr a made up person"?

 

[kammiemc]

A hot car death has been suggested more than once on DeOrr's threads. But if that death occurred at the campsite, the dogs would certainly have hit on the smell. Heck I'll even venture that LEOs would have noticed the smell. Even if he died in one vehicle prior to the "camping trip" and was transported to the campground in a different vehicle, it seems at least possible that cadaver dogs might have picked up on the smell. Those same dog(s) btw, that picked up the scent of cremains at the reservoir.

WARNING the thread I'm linking to contains GRAPHIC reading but has a lot of good info about the science and statistics of hot car deaths: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Science-amp-Statistics-Behind-Hot-Car-Deaths

I am going to go out on a limb and speculate that we have not been made privy to all of the evidence they have in its entirety. It is possible that decomposition was found in the truck. They have not said that but they also have not said that isn't the case. But I don't think Klein would be saying little DeOrr is deceased by an accident if the only proof was luminol picking up a spattering of what could be roadkill.


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[La Louve]

Thank you for the hot car links, I will have read through more but one quote from a 2012 article said it can take only 15 min. to kill a child if the temp. outside is 75 degrees. Hypothetically, it takes time for a dog to detect decomposition even though the process starts upon death. It also takes time for transfer to happen for example from clothing to car seat. I'm sure heat plays a factor as well. If a child was removed within an hour or two hours of death, I'm not sure the dogs would hit on a car seat. I'm not saying this is what happened though, but I believe it is possible. I'm really at a loss on all the theories.

Great points Dee, thanks! My familiarity with cadaver dog capabilities is mostly in relation to Dylan Redwine's death, and there the discussion was mainly focused on water-borne scent.

:seeya:

 

[La Louve]

I am going to go out on a limb and speculate that we have not been privy to all of the evidence they have in its entirety. It is possible that decomposition was found in the truck. They have said that but they have also not said that isn't the case. But I don't think Klein would be saying little SeOrr is deceased by an accident if the only proof luminol picking up a spattering of what could be roadkill.


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BBM I'm out on that limb with you and I feel pretty secure

 

[La Louve]

Actually, I'm surprised one hasn't turned against the other and that they're still together. The pressure on them must be stifling, with PI/LE/FBI constantly on their backs probably 24/7. Especially since they're not married.

BBM give it time.....see Cooper Harris's story. Wifey stuck by hubby and his (IMO cockamamie) story for many months and only recently filed for divorce.

 

[Beezneez]

OT- I am working on a general "cast of characters" with Bessie's blessing. Hope to complete it tomorrow afternoon. I think I'll post it in the media thread so that everyone can reference back to it when there is confusion about who is who & what they have to do with anything. Hopefully that clears up some confusion for those who are not day to day followers of the case. Thanks! :rollercoaster:

 

[TxJan1971]

I've been wondering why we are working along with an 8 a.m. - 2.30 pm on Friday timeline ?

08:33
SB: Sure. You know basically we’ve tried to narrow the timeline down from the time they actually realized he was missing or when they claim that he was missing and they didn’t find him, and from that time period of when they searched and then when they called 911. We’ve been trying to narrow that timeline down.

Has it been confirmed that little DeOrr was seen shortly before 8 a.m. by the other two at the campground ?

This remains unclear since it has been reported in MSM (IR interview w/ Nate) that IR saw the child when parents got back from the store around 1:10 or so (can't remember specific time) but well after 8:00. Nothing that I can recall states someone saw him prior to 8:00. IR has, however, recently come forward. It is unclear if he has changed his story or if it remains the same. Time will tell.

I don't think we have been informed (by "we" I mean the public not just WS!!) when the last positive sighting was of DeOrr?

Answered in post #321

Going back, the "filthy, bawling child in a black truck" mention could this have been that DeOrr was left alone while all the others stopped at the Silver Dollar on Thursday on their way to the campground? Perhaps they parked up at the Stage Shop, left the car and DeOrr and walked to the Silver Dollar. Popped over sometime to check on him, bought him a candy bar to keep him quiet, left him where he was and went back to the others at the Silver Dollar?
Could something have happened to him then?
It would be wrong of me to suggest further scenarios - but could this have happened? Does this come within the realms of possibility, or am I far, far off track?

Anything is possible! The timeline, though, begins at 8:00 am the next day, so "I" assume they may have a credible witness or verification to place the child alive at 8:00. (??)

eta - Hope this makes some vague sense, I'm just asking here, it's only yet another thought of the many I have for this poor child that's all, be glad of your thoughts.

(My responses in BOLD beneath each of your questions)

 

[oceanverde]

I feel extremely certain that this is not why LE, FBI and Klein (and, heck, Vilt) are all saying the parents have been untruthful (lied).


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Oh I know it is highly unlikely but when I was thinking up ways that the parents could be innocent given what has been released so far, this was something that came up.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Could Klein's new, anonymous client be the national media outlet who recently contacted him regarding the viral hashtags? Like ohhhh maybe CNN or Nancy G show? That would explain Klein's statement re: no more updates till search time - the national media outlet would want to keep any "updating" as an exclusive for their own outlet to give. Just a thought, and doesn't really matter I suppose.

 

[Beezneez]

https://www.facebook.com/ChelseaBrentzelNews/posts/1086328658064069
This reporter has answers to these questions from Browning (Kunz/Mitchell atty) & Klein. Answers will be posted on her fb page by 2:30 pm mst- so in about 1 hour.

 

[Beezneez]

Could Klein's new, anonymous client be the national media outlet who recently contacted him regarding the viral hashtags? Like ohhhh maybe CNN or Nancy G show? That would explain Klein's statement re: no more updates till search time - the national media outlet would want to keep any "updating" as an exclusive for their own outlet to give. Just a thought, and doesn't really matter I suppose.

I suspect it is BB/family. I feel like in the interest of his two kids he wants the media sideshow to stop, but the investigation to continue. JMO

 

[JadeSLeuth]

I suspect it is BB/family. I feel like in the interest of his two kids he wants the media sideshow to stop, but the investigation to continue. JMO

You know, I completely agree with your suspicion. Thanks BeezNeez.

 

[kammiemc]

BBM I'm out on that limb with you and I feel pretty secure

Even with my typos?! .



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[eileenhawkeye]

Does anyone remember how long it took before poor little Caylee's story went from local to national? A national media outlet has contacted Klein so I'm just wondering how long it will be until this story super explodes on a high level. To my knowledge Nancy Grace only briefly touched on this right after DeOrr "disappeared." Yeah, a lot of people hate her but it seems once she hits on a story it goes "a-haulin'."

It's not going to explode on a national level. They don't start reporting on cases eight months after the victim goes missing. The time for it to capture the national media's attention passed a long time ago. If this was going to be a big story, it would've happened already. I am not saying the national media won't talk about the case...just that it will never reach the level of Casey Anthony, Trayvon Martin, Amanda Knox...all cases I would say exploded in the national media.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

https://www.facebook.com/ChelseaBrentzelNews/posts/1086328658064069
This reporter has answers to these questions from Browning (Kunz/Mitchell atty) & Klein. Answers will be posted on her fb page by 2:30 pm mst- so in about 1 hour.

Thanks so much for finding and posting this. The reporter also says she sent the same questions to LE. Last night she stated that everyone had responded. I'm waiting to see LE answers the most ... Unless they just responded saying they wouldn't respond .... We are about 20 minutes away now. Tick tock ...

 

[ReadySet]

I am going to go out on a limb and speculate that we have not been made privy to all of the evidence they have in its entirety. It is possible that decomposition was found in the truck. They have not said that but they also have not said that isn't the case. But I don't think Klein would be saying little DeOrr is deceased by an accident if the only proof was luminol picking up a spattering of what could be roadkill.




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Exactly. We forget sometimes that just because WSers know more than the average person on the street about this case, doesn't mean we know everything.
Also, we try to take a short cut from evidence to arrest. We don't understand why, since there is evidence of this and that, the supsects haven't been arrested.
But there are no shortcuts, not for LE and prosecuting attorney who are thinking not just about charges, but who have to think ahead to trial. They have to do a incredible job of multi-tasking: finding evidence and trying to bring the baby home; while at the same time projecting into the future and thinking of what the defense attorneys will pick apart.
I think they have a lot of their ducks in a row; but that there are still a few stragglers lagging behind that they need to herd into line.
We are impatient; but LE can't afford to be.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I'm in the Boise area- very little coverage, even in the past few days with all the drama. I try to watch the news but somehow I seem to always miss parts of it. We have three news channels and I never know which one to watch either (in hopes of a DeOrr story). However, for what it's worth, I've not seen anything on the news (television) in a very long time (probably since DK and JM were named suspects) - it's highly possible I missed something (because I have seen articles online from the Boise stations), but here in Boise, it just isn't a super hot news topic for whatever reason.

I feel like there are so many cases where there is plenty of online activity on social media yet the MSM has little to no interest. It's weird to think about how different this would all be before the Internet. The media outlet with the most interest is online only, right?