ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #26

[TeaTime]

BBM

I have read almost every single post of every thread, and I still feel unsure about the information "I think" I know. There is really so much conflicting information out there. I've followed several other cases on other forums, and none of them are as nonsensical when it comes to the "facts" of the case.

One example: the 911 calls. I've heard Vernal called first, then Jessica, then GGP. Then I heard they called in the complete opposite order! If vernal had to leave the camp ground to call, how could his call have been first?

Im obviously already emotionally invested in this case. I want to see a conclusion. I just don't know what/who to believe.

Klein gave us the times of the three 911 calls. Although the times are public, the calls are not as we have only heard one. And these are the only times that have been made public. Klein told us the order of callers, but understand, there may be more calls made before JM's and after JM's - meaning the order given by Klein could very well fall in the middle of multiple calls.

 

[TxJan1971]

Can someone please link me to the rules about what you can link to from social media? I've searched and can't find it, but I have seen it referenced so I know it's somewhere about.

I have seen it mentioned many times about DeOrr's blanket cup and monkey, and I found a picture posted by a family member on facebook (a public post) that shows DeOrr with the cup, monkey and blanket that Jessica was holding in the interview. I hadn't until now seen a picture of the monkey that had been mentioned so often. Is it allowable to post a link to this pic, or the picture itself?

Here's the link which explains the latest SM rules for this case -

scroll to Bessie's post #713

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...r-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015-24&p=12402056

 

[TeaTime]

I thought to make a list of things that we know for certain in this case and can come up with only 5 which are not subject to interpretation, speculation or confusion:

1.) JM, VDK, IR and GGP were at the Timber Creek Campground on Friday July 10th and at 2:30-ish pm, JM called 911 to report 2 year old Deorr missing.

2.) Not one person other than the 4 adults mentioned above has claimed to have seen DeOrr since at least Thursday the 9th.

3.) Despite massive searches the child was not located.

4.) Local and state LE, the FBI and 2 PI's have investigated/are investigating the matter.

5.) The parents have been named suspects in the child's disappearance.

Everything else is chatter, really.

Perhaps when the snow melts and searchers return, there will be some resolution to this case but IMHO only if the child wandered away. If the parents were, in fact, involved with disposing of the child's body, I do not think it will be found as it is far, far away from the campsite, somewhere way out in the Idaho wilderness.

 

[giagreen]

BBM

I have read almost every single post of every thread, and I still feel unsure about the information "I think" I know. There is really so much conflicting information out there. I've followed several other cases on other forums, and none of them are as nonsensical when it comes to the "facts" of the case.

One example: the 911 calls. I've heard Vernal called first, then Jessica, then GGP. Then I heard they called in the complete opposite order! If vernal had to leave the camp ground to call, how could his call have been first?

Im obviously already emotionally invested in this case. I want to see a conclusion. I just don't know what/who to believe.

Or if VDK called first then why in JM 911 call can VDK's phone call be heard coming in? It was a very short phone call but it was very clear it was him.
From that I've gathered VDK 911 call was either 2nd or 3rd but not first.

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[Cracka*Jaxx]

Mel Ignatow?

Exactly! Thank you! I'll have to revisit that case to refresh my memory. But I remember being completely shocked at the outcome. There really should be a way to retry someone in a situation like this.

 

[erinp]

Here's the link which explains the latest SM rules for this case -

scroll to Bessie's post #713

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...r-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015-24&p=12402056

thanks for that. but is there some permanent pinned post somewhere with the social media rules, so that newbies like myself could find them in future?

 

[erinp]

Or if VDK called first then why in JM 911 call can VDK's phone call be heard coming in? It was a very short phone call but it was very clear it was him.
From that I've gathered VDK 911 call was either 2nd or 3rd but not first.

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do we know for sure that it was VDK's call coming through when JM was on the line? The operator asked JM if her husband was calling too, but she doesn't answer the question. It could have been GGP calling and the operator assumed it was JM's husband because it was a man calling to report a missing toddler?

 

[giagreen]

do we know for sure that it was VDK's call coming through when JM was on the line? The operator asked JM if her husband was calling too, but she doesn't answer the question. It could have been GGP calling and the operator assumed it was JM's husband because it was a man calling to report a missing toddler?

You can hear the other operator say "what's your name" then "vernal" as in checking to make sure they heard him right.


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[TxJan1971]

Didn't Klein say he has a witness that verified they saw Deorr at 6pm.? Am not sure what day it was though on Thurs. or Fri.? But then again i'm not really sure about Klein's involvement/stance in this case either, and broadcasting such information to the general public that could prove prejedicual to this case in the long run if it does go to trial eventually?

Yes, there was one witness the night before, which, IMO, would be Thursday at 6 pm. That's all we have as far as a known sighting.

KLEIN ANSWER: Great question - we have one witness at 6 p.m. on the night before.

As far as your question of whether or not KIC's involvement/stance in this case would prove prejudicial if it does go to trial, what specifically is it that you've read/heard by KIC that you think might prejudice a jury? Also, have you ever had the chance to serve as a juror?

 

[Lillahazel]

Can someone please link me to the rules about what you can link to from social media? I've searched and can't find it, but I have seen it referenced so I know it's somewhere about.

I have seen it mentioned many times about DeOrr's blanket cup and monkey, and I found a picture posted by a family member on facebook (a public post) that shows DeOrr with the cup, monkey and blanket that Jessica was holding in the interview. I hadn't until now seen a picture of the monkey that had been mentioned so often. Is it allowable to post a link to this pic, or the picture itself?

Have we been told what the monkey and cup look like? I have seen two different photos with two different monkeys. I'm not even sure if those two monkeys are the one they are referring to in the first interview. He must have been a monkey boy. I've also seen a few different cups.

I find the rules to WS by going to the WS home page.

 

[kammiemc]

The last sentence in this quote is very weird:

"Til the day I die, til the day we die, I will find him," said Vernal. "I refuse to leave this earth without knowing where he is or what happened at least. At least knowing that he's okay."

It's like he's talking about a runaway or something. It implies that if he found his son living elsewhere with another family, he could die peacefully. There is no logic in it at all.

So weird!
I was about to go into how "I" would never be okay with "at least" knowing my abducted son was okay, but it's all so obvious and so silly.

No parent who seriously didn't know where their son was would ever say that. Ever. There are some wonderful acting instructors in LA. Perhaps that would be a better investment for DK at this moment than a defense lawyer.

 

[Angiebla]

Or if VDK called first then why in JM 911 call can VDK's phone call be heard coming in? It was a very short phone call but it was very clear it was him.
From that I've gathered VDK 911 call was either 2nd or 3rd but not first.

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Thats what I thought as well. That is also why I'm super confused.

 

[TxJan1971]

You can hear the other operator say "what's your name" then "vernal" as in checking to make sure they heard him right.


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Here's the 911 link (below) that I listened to (the audio of 14:28 time stamped 911 call), but I can't hear the "what's your name." Do you know what time that was that you heard it, or do you have a different better quality 911 tape?

I'm not sure if you were saying the dispatch operator is asking Vernal what his name is. I did hear a dispatch operator ask Jessica "What's your son's name," but not one asking Vernal.

I also hear a different female dispatch in the background saying, "Vernal" at 2:22. It's hard (for me) to know "when" exactly VDK phoned in. (I didn't hear a phone ring but could have missed it). It almost sounded to me like the other operator was already speaking with someone when Jessica called in. Again, I could be wrong. Just wanted your interpretation.

Oh, the dispatch tells Jessica to hold on as she turns to someone behind her and starts talking - and you can hear a female (dispatch?) and a male (Sheriff or staff)?

A couple sentences before the background operator says, "Vernal?" at 2:22, you hear a male in the background (male) say:

Background: Pardon me? We’re working on an emergency right now.

That led me to believe that someone (VDK) made contact before Jessica (just how I interpreted it) because Jessica's dispatch was still getting information from her.

Thoughts?

http://assets.eastidahonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/15153620/Deorr-Kunz-911-Call.mp3

 

[TxJan1971]

Here's Klein's 911 statements:

2-2-16
Klein Investigations and Consulting There were three 911 calls which are public - 14:22, 14:26 and 14:28 hours (my note: Jessica's 911 call released clearly states it was 14:28 before she started speaking) on the 10th. January 11 at 5:25pm
https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvest...37132659702652

2-2-16
BOS: Who made the 3rd phone call to 911. Was there a disposable phone in the hands of anyone while camping?
Klein Investigations and Consulting There were three calls made to 911. First, Vernal. Second, Jessica. Third, the grandfather.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...0#post12341730


2-27-16
Hello! There is Something weighing heavy on my mind, was wondering if you guys would mind being so kind as to answer a question regarding the Deorr Kunz jr case?? We know there were 3 911 calls made that day in July, but what order were the calls made?? Who was the 1st to call, the 2nd and the 3rd?? Thank you In advance!! & Thank you for all you do!!! ��

Klein Investigations and Consulting In sorry, that is a part of the time line we cannot discuss.


There may have been a misstatement or misprint by KIC, but this is what was posted on his page - his responses to questions. It's all we have to go with at this time until LE clears it up (if ever).

 

[giagreen]

Here's the 911 link (below) that I listened to (the audio of 14:28 time stamped 911 call), but I can't hear the "what's your name." Do you know what time that was that you heard it, or do you have a different better quality 911 tape?

I'm not sure if you were saying the dispatch operator is asking Vernal what his name is. I did hear a dispatch operator ask Jessica "What's your son's name," but not one asking Vernal.

I also hear a different female dispatch in the background saying, "Vernal" at 2:22. It's hard (for me) to know "when" exactly VDK phoned in. (I didn't hear a phone ring but could have missed it). It almost sounded to me like the other operator was already speaking with someone when Jessica called in. Again, I could be wrong. Just wanted your interpretation.

Oh, the dispatch tells Jessica to hold on as she turns to someone behind her and starts talking - and you can hear a female (dispatch?) and a male (Sheriff or staff)?

A couple sentences before the background operator says, "Vernal?" at 2:22, you hear a male in the background (male) say:

Background: Pardon me? We’re working on an emergency right now.

That led me to believe that someone (VDK) made contact before Jessica (just how I interpreted it) because Jessica's dispatch was still getting information from her.

Thoughts?

http://assets.eastidahonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/15153620/Deorr-Kunz-911-Call.mp3

At about 1:52 I can hear a woman ask the what's your name then say Vernal. But we wouldn't hear a phone ring because dispatchers wear head sets

In the very beginning the operator put JM on hold and that's when I hear a man after the dispatcher says dean or don.



https://youtu.be/5mKjcbSS2vw

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[erinp]

You can hear the other operator say "what's your name" then "vernal" as in checking to make sure they heard him right.


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thanks... i hadn't realised until now that the 911 call recording i'd listened to was an edited one. i found another extended recording on youtube and you can clearly hear the "what's your name" and the "vernal" exchange.

 

[desert-blue]

Here's the 911 link (below) that I listened to (the audio of 14:28 time stamped 911 call), but I can't hear the "what's your name." Do you know what time that was that you heard it, or do you have a different better quality 911 tape?

I'm not sure if you were saying the dispatch operator is asking Vernal what his name is. I did hear a dispatch operator ask Jessica "What's your son's name," but not one asking Vernal.

I also hear a different female dispatch in the background saying, "Vernal" at 2:22. It's hard (for me) to know "when" exactly VDK phoned in. (I didn't hear a phone ring but could have missed it). It almost sounded to me like the other operator was already speaking with someone when Jessica called in. Again, I could be wrong. Just wanted your interpretation.

Oh, the dispatch tells Jessica to hold on as she turns to someone behind her and starts talking - and you can hear a female (dispatch?) and a male (Sheriff or staff)?

A couple sentences before the background operator says, "Vernal?" at 2:22, you hear a male in the background (male) say:

Background: Pardon me? We’re working on an emergency right now.

That led me to believe that someone (VDK) made contact before Jessica (just how I interpreted it) because Jessica's dispatch was still getting information from her.

Thoughts?

http://assets.eastidahonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/15153620/Deorr-Kunz-911-Call.mp3

http://www.localnews8.com/news/911-call-reporting-missing-toddler-released/34192558

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/mothers-911-phone-call-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him

I just listened to the above two clips of the 911 call from two different sources. In the first one, I can clearly hear an operator in the background ask, "What's your name" and then, "Vernal?" after which JM's operator asks, "Is your husband calling too?" Right after that, I think it's possible that something has been spliced out because it cuts back into Jessica saying, "Like, all down there by where we camping at and we can't find him." She never answered the question about whether her husband was calling. It seems like her answer has been edited out.

In the second clip, I cannot hear the operator in the background say, "What's your name?" It's like that part has been cut out. It should be in there right after JM says, "He's about three feet..." (in response to how tall he is).

Is it possible Vernal's call was ending (rather than just beginning)? His operator seems to tell him that help is on the way on that they'll call him if they need anything else. That to me sounds like the end of a 911 call, not the beginning...

 

[TxJan1971]

At about 1:52 I can hear a woman ask the what's your name then say Vernal. But we wouldn't hear a phone ring because dispatchers wear head sets

In the very beginning the operator put JM on hold and that's when I hear a man after the dispatcher says dean or don.



https://youtu.be/5mKjcbSS2vw

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Thanks! It must be spliced from the longer version (link I provided above) because I heard it clear as day on the shorter edited version! The longer version has more background voices - I heard the dispatch tell Jessica to hold on and then turn to a male and say, "John...? and heard a man: What, Huh, etc. etc. Otherwise, there's just a lot more of Dispatch and Jessica missing from the shorter version.

 

[TxJan1971]

http://www.localnews8.com/news/911-call-reporting-missing-toddler-released/34192558

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/mothers-911-phone-call-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him

I just listened to the above two clips of the 911 call from two different sources. In the first one, I can clearly hear an operator in the background ask, "What's your name" and then, "Vernal?" after which JM's operator asks, "Is your husband calling too?" Right after that, I think it's possible that something has been spliced out because it cuts back into Jessica saying, "Like, all down there by where we camping at and we can't find him." She never answered the question about whether her husband was calling. It seems like her answer has been edited out.

In the second clip, I cannot hear the operator in the background say, "What's your name?" It's like that part has been cut out. It should be in there right after JM says, "He's about three feet..." (in response to how tall he is).

Is it possible Vernal's call was ending (rather than just beginning)? His operator seems to tell him that help is on the way on that they'll call him if they need anything else. That to me sounds like the end of a 911 call, not the beginning...

I agree with your post, particularly the last part, but only based on what Klein said about the order of the calls factored in! Thanks for your links as well.

 

[giagreen]

Thanks! It must be spliced from the longer version (link I provided above) because I heard it clear as day on the shorter edited version! The longer version has more background voices - I heard the dispatch tell Jessica to hold on and then turn to a male and say, "John...? and heard a man: What, Huh, etc. etc. Otherwise, there's just a lot more of Dispatch and Jessica missing from the shorter version.

For the longest time I didn't hear the full version and didn't realize you couldn't hear it in the longer one. I officially thought everyone was nuts and pretending not to hear it just to make what they want fit. Lol
But it's actually really confusing with the two out there. Just simply based on the fact that most times a name is one of the first things asked in a 911 call I have to beleive VDK 911 call came in very soon after JM. And I'm personally confident and locked into my opinion that VDK did call very shortly after JM call went threw. But it is confusing and I could be wrong.
Just those two diffrent recordings of the very same thing goes to show that everything isn't as it seems so it makes it hard to lock into one idea with 100% certainty.

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