ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[RainCheck]

And in IR's words, he thought VDK and little Deorr were following but they didn't, they stayed / lagged behind. And then the question, was little Deorr even there ?

I also think it's a great point brought up earlier by rocket, if little Deorr was wearing a camo jacket, he would have had it on in the morning as that's when it's coolest. Which also doesn't fit with him sticking his arm up the tailpipe and getting black with soot. That sounds like a really strange thing for a kid to do anyway, IMO.

My son did this at exactly the same age as DeOrr. It was an awful mess! It was such a sticky, gross, black mess all over him and his clothes. It got on all his clothes, his face and both arms. I walking with him to our SUV in our driveway. We started walking from the house together. We walked behind the back of the SUV. Then in a split second there he was arm all the way up in the tailpipe. I pulled him out and his arm was a solid black mess and he thought it was the funniest thing he had ever seen. It took a full bath to get all the soot off him and I had to change and wash his clothes immediately. After that, he constantly wanted to do it so we had to keep him away from all cars and trucks. He'd see a tailpipe and try to run for it. Eventually he lost interest because we wouldn't ever let him get close to one again. I'm really glad that phase is over because I was so afraid he'd end up getting burned or run over trying to stick his hand in a tailpipe.

 

[Makara]

My son did this at exactly the same age as DeOrr. It was an awful mess! It was such a sticky, gross, black mess all over him and his clothes. It got on all his clothes, his face and both arms. I walking with him to our SUV in our driveway. We started walking from the house together. We walked behind the back of the SUV. Then in a split second there he was arm all the way up in the tailpipe. I pulled him out and his arm was a solid black mess and he thought it was the funniest thing he had ever seen. It took a full bath to get all the soot off him and I had to change and wash his clothes immediately. After that, he constantly wanted to do it so we had to keep him away from all cars and trucks. He'd see a tailpipe and try to run for it. Eventually he lost interest because we wouldn't ever let him get close to one again. I'm really glad that phase is over because I was so afraid he'd end up getting burned or run over trying to stick his hand in a tailpipe.

OMG! And you obviously did what any responsible parent would do in that circumstance. As I've never stuck my hand up a tailpipe or know of anyone who has, was the black soot you mentioned greazy? I'm imagining that any discharge from a tailpipe would also contain oil of some description and would be difficult to remove without lots of soap and warm water.

 

[neesaki]

My son did this at exactly the same age as DeOrr. It was an awful mess! It was such a sticky, gross, black mess all over him and his clothes. It got on all his clothes, his face and both arms. I walking with him to our SUV in our driveway. We started walking from the house together. We walked behind the back of the SUV. Then in a split second there he was arm all the way up in the tailpipe. I pulled him out and his arm was a solid black mess and he thought it was the funniest thing he had ever seen. It took a full bath to get all the soot off him and I had to change and wash his clothes immediately. After that, he constantly wanted to do it so we had to keep him away from all cars and trucks. He'd see a tailpipe and try to run for it. Eventually he lost interest because we wouldn't ever let him get close to one again. I'm really glad that phase is over because I was so afraid he'd end up getting burned or run over trying to stick his hand in a tailpipe.

So it's not as far fetched as I thought.... well I'll be a monkey's uncle :thud:

 

[RainCheck]

OMG! And you obviously did what any responsible parent would do in that circumstance. As I've never stuck my hand up a tailpipe or know of anyone who has, was the black soot you mentioned greazy? I'm imagining that any discharge from a tailpipe would also contain oil of some description and would be difficult to remove without lots of soap and warm water.

I don't know if it's oil, but it's seemed tacky. It was extremely difficult to get it off him. He had touched his face and other arm. It was everywhere. I held his arm up in the air and rushed him in the house talking to him about why he shouldn't do that. He was so little though he was laughing at me panicking. It was very difficult to get off. I had to use dish soap and water in the kitchen sink, but realized quickly I needed to get him in a bath tub and soap him down to get it all off. Nobody is "wiping" that stuff off their child. If it gets on a child with no access to dish soap and a bathtub, it going to be everywhere and the child will look like chimney sweep who just crawled out of a chimney.

 

[RainCheck]

So it's not as far fetched as I thought.... well I'll be a monkey's uncle :thud:

This admission by VDK in this case made me feel so bad. I've seen so many people commenting saying, "Another example of their terrible parenting." Or "What sort of horrible parent lets their toddler stick their arm in a tailpipe?". In my case, it happened so fast, I was right there next to him and he shoved his little arm up there before I even realized what was happening.

 

[Shorty42389]

This admission by VDK in this case made me feel so bad. I've seen so many people commenting saying, "Another example of their terrible parenting." Or "What sort of horrible parent lets their toddler stick their arm in a tailpipe?". In my case, it happened so fast, I was right there next to him and he shoved his little arm up there before I even realized what was happening.

I think their comments were based on his cavalier, even joyful, attitude towards it. Almost like it was not only something that was frequent, but something that wasn't really discouraged. Normal parents could list multiple reasons why they would discourage the behavior and make all attempts to prevent it in the future.

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[Deleted member 102539]

Maybe a carbon monoxide poisoning happened when VDK played "little games" and planned to scare "the son" with starting his truck while Deorr was going to fumble with his little arms inside the exhaust pipe? Maybe Deorr even suffered a severe burning plus poisoning??

Of course I know nobody in his right mind would do that to his child. And no mother in her right mind would cover up for someone like that. But I doubt they are indeed in their "right mind", this parents.

 

[lisette]

A lot of us are battling the idea of "why" they would cover up a legitimate accident

The only thing that makes sense is if there was illegal activity going on at the time...use of illegal drugs. Maybe even the accident happened because they were "out of it" from the use. And, after the elaborate lies and cover-up, they felt they were already in so deep that they might as well stick to it til the end?

 

[katydid23]

This admission by VDK in this case made me feel so bad. I've seen so many people commenting saying, "Another example of their terrible parenting." Or "What sort of horrible parent lets their toddler stick their arm in a tailpipe?". In my case, it happened so fast, I was right there next to him and he shoved his little arm up there before I even realized what was happening.

Right. But you had the appropriate response---which was to prevent your child from repeating the dangerous behavior, and training them not to. Any responsible parent wants to keep their child from playing behind parked vehicles in the future. What a dangerous place for them to be standing and playing. I found it so odd that VDK spoke of it as if it was a normal way to play with one's toddler.

 

[RainCheck]

Right. But you had the appropriate response---which was to prevent your child from repeating the dangerous behavior, and training them not to. Any responsible parent wants to keep their child from playing behind parked vehicles in the future. What a dangerous place for them to be standing and playing. I found it so odd that VDK spoke of it as if it was a normal way to play with one's toddler.

Yes, thank you. I know, but I still felt terrible especially when I realized most parents had never experienced this. The only people I know who had their child do this are me and a guy who probably had something to do with his son's death and disappearance :shame:

Anyway, that's my parenting fail confession. I obviously know it's something a kid might actually do. I however realized now dangerous it could be.

 

[jessie]

RainCheck don't feel so guilty. 2 year olds do the most dangerous and unexpected things always. Which is why you never let them out of sight.

But that's the whole point imo. Go back to the very, very beginning and what those parents said was so unbelievable to me at the start.

They said they were "going exploring" (it changed over time but this was their first excuse) - and their 2 year old said he'd rather stay with GGP round the campfire !!

What 2 year old little boy, camping in a strange area, full of excitement at the situation and surrounded by open spaces, running water, trees, rocks, so much space and the possibility of seeing fish would choose to sit quietly with GGP rather than explore !

It would (imo) be so difficult to get a 2 year old to sit still in those circumstances, it isn't what they could do !

From the very start this was not a believable story, it just never rang true and how they expected anyone to believe that's how the afternoon went is beyond me.
Sorry for wasting time here, been following from the start and have read many, many valuable posts - keep them coming please. x

 

[kammiemc]

This admission by VDK in this case made me feel so bad. I've seen so many people commenting saying, "Another example of their terrible parenting." Or "What sort of horrible parent lets their toddler stick their arm in a tailpipe?". In my case, it happened so fast, I was right there next to him and he shoved his little arm up there before I even realized what was happening.

I didn't think that him not being able to stop his toddler from sticking his arm in the tail pipe makes him a bad parent. I think that laughing in a fun, relaxed way about it while recounting the hours leading up to his son's disappearance to a PI is strange, suspicious is totally out of line with how (IMO) a grieving parent would act. But very much in line with how someone who knows what happened to his son would act if he were trying to nonchalantly explain why there would be evidence that his son at the back of the truck.


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[Russian Blue]

RainCheck don't feel so guilty. 2 year olds do the most dangerous and unexpected things always. Which is why you never let them out of sight.

But that's the whole point imo. Go back to the very, very beginning and what those parents said was so unbelievable to me at the start.

They said they were "going exploring" (it changed over time but this was their first excuse) - and their 2 year old said he'd rather stay with GGP round the campfire !!

What 2 year old little boy, camping in a strange area, full of excitement at the situation and surrounded by open spaces, running water, trees, rocks, so much space and the possibility of seeing fish would choose to sit quietly with GGP rather than explore !

It would (imo) be so difficult to get a 2 year old to sit still in those circumstances, it isn't what they could do !

From the very start this was not a believable story, it just never rang true and how they expected anyone to believe that's how the afternoon went is beyond me.
Sorry for wasting time here, been following from the start and have read many, many valuable posts - keep them coming please. x

I agree with you on this, no 2 year old wants to hang back with Grandpa, no matter how much he loves his Grandpa, who is sitting around on an oxygen tank. What I originally thought when they spun this part of the tale, was that they were headed out for some "adult exploring". A half hour alone from their child and grandpa but didn't want to say that was why they left him. Or, headed out for some drug use.

One step farther back before this, is that no matter how VDK wants to spin the responsible adult idea---Grandpa is in no condition to run after a two year old who might get himself in trouble. While he is mentally responsible he is not fully physically able to be responsible in terms of being responsive. In my opinion these are both 2 pieces of the bigger lie.

 

[The Apparition]

I didn't think that him not being able to stop his toddler from sticking his arm in the tail pipe makes him a bad parent. I think that laughing in a fun, relaxed way about it while recounting the hours leading up to his son's disappearance to a PI is strange, suspicious is totally out of line with how (IMO) a grieving parent would act. But very much in line with how someone who knows what happened to his son would act if he were trying to nonchalantly explain why there would be evidence that his son at the back of the truck.


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Yes a thousand times! His attitude is so off during the interview, I have seen him look truly broken up a couple of times, this was not one of those occasions. He really seems at ease lying and almost seems to be amused at the line of crap he is giving Klein, a real low moment even for a troglodyte like him.

Shout out to you also Jessie, the story made no sense from the beginning. How anyone familiar with toddlers can spin the line of crap they did is unreal. I don't even go pee at my own house unless I know where my little one is and what she's doing. To insult everyone's intelligence with the whole we walked off thinking the old enfeebled man was watching our kid story is galling. At a campground or anywhere not safe myself or my wife would have constant eyeballs on our kids and never be more than 10 steps away from them. The only way this wouldn't happen is if a truly trusted adult familiar with children specifically said I will watch your kids for you. My list of people I would trust to do this near a stream in the woods is about 4 people long and doesn't include immobile elderly people no matter how much I might love them.

 

[jennapuppy]

I don't know if it's oil, but it's seemed tacky. It was extremely difficult to get it off him. He had touched his face and other arm. It was everywhere. I held his arm up in the air and rushed him in the house talking to him about why he shouldn't do that. He was so little though he was laughing at me panicking. It was very difficult to get off. I had to use dish soap and water in the kitchen sink, but realized quickly I needed to get him in a bath tub and soap him down to get it all off. Nobody is "wiping" that stuff off their child. If it gets on a child with no access to dish soap and a bathtub, it going to be everywhere and the child will look like chimney sweep who just crawled out of a chimney.

This makes me think that, if DeOrr's arm was covered with soot, there would have been evidence that they tried to clean him up afterwards, such as dirty, sooty towels or paper towels at the campsite.

 

[kammiemc]

Yes a thousand times! His attitude is so off during the interview, I have seen him look truly broken up a couple of times, this was not one of those occasions. He really seems at ease lying and almost seems to be amused at the line of crap he is giving Klein, a real low moment even for a troglodyte like him.

Shout out to you also Jessie, the story made no sense from the beginning. How anyone familiar with toddlers can spin the line of crap they did is unreal. I don't even go pee at my own house unless I know where my little one is and what she's doing. To insult everyone's intelligence with the whole we walked off thinking the old enfeebled man was watching our kid story is galling. At a campground or anywhere not safe myself or my wife would have constant eyeballs on our kids and never be more than 10 steps away from them. The only way this wouldn't happen is if a truly trusted adult familiar with children specifically said I will watch your kids for you. My list of people I would trust to do this near a stream in the woods is about 4 people long and doesn't include immobile elderly people no matter how much I might love them.

He seemed VERY amused, and IMO that was part of trying to sound convincing and to get Klein's head nodding along with him. His "I thought it was funny," rang of a desperate, unsaid, "Don't you?" The answer is no. Klein didn't think it was funny. No one thinks it is funny. It wouldn't necessarily be funny if it happened on a normal day. But the comedy of that moment on that particular morning should pale in comparison to the tragedy that DeOrr went "missing" just a few hours later. It wasn't even presented as a bittersweet memory. It was like it was super good times. He is a really bad liar. They both are.


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[kammiemc]

Yes, thank you. I know, but I still felt terrible especially when I realized most parents had never experienced this. The only people I know who had their child do this are me and a guy who probably had something to do with his son's death and disappearance :shame:

Anyway, that's my parenting fail confession. I obviously know it's something a kid might actually do. I however realized now dangerous it could be.

Eh, my son ate some construction putty when he was a toddler. I was frantic. I rushed him to the ER. Turns out that it is harmless. And I think I am pretty decent mom! But it is not a funny memory to me. And it would be even less so if I never saw him again after that day.


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[alexwood]

Tailpipes... Wheel wells... All these little blurbs about Deorr doing things around the truck. Also- apparently there was a dog there- I remember quite a discussion about whether or not there were dogs. Laughs & casual coffee chats about your missing sin. GrrrAasaskjggh. (^ that is aggravation.)

But I remember that same type of jovial behavior coming from him in the very first interview, immediately after Deorr went missing. He was speaking in a detached manner, as though he were an unaffected observer, like the president of a booster club, delivering kudos to the first responders, commenting on the outstanding work of LE, and praising the efforts of search & rescue personnel.

I was puzzled at first, because I thought he was some spokesperson talking about the status of the situation. I watched and listened, trying to figure out who exactly he was, and what connection he had to the missing child, or to the community. You really would not have known that he was Deorr's father.

Now, it seems, that his failure to refer to Deorr by his name is an effort to distance himself from Deorr, and minimize the impact of this tragedy on everyone who learns of it, or has known about it from the start. The sooner everyone forgets and moves on, the quicker he can expunge it from his own memory. And I agree, it very well could be an indication of guilt.
All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[KatieLiz]

March 2016. Klein interview with Nate Eaton.

"Also today we are willing to announce that in our interviews with the grandfather, he did admit to investigators that he believes there was an accident."

now, add to this GGP's comments that what's done is done and then inquiring if there was going to be a funeral. There is no doubt in my mind that baby is dead. I'm still struggling with where it happened.

I haven't read the rest of the comments from today yet but I wanted to respond to this. I had a feeling from months and months back that when this gets close to them being charged and the stories twist and turn more they will try to spin it as an accident to lessen the charges. I just sure hope LE can find concrete evidence so they don't get away with murder.

 

[Makara]

I don't know if it's oil, but it's seemed tacky. It was extremely difficult to get it off him. He had touched his face and other arm. It was everywhere. I held his arm up in the air and rushed him in the house talking to him about why he shouldn't do that. He was so little though he was laughing at me panicking. It was very difficult to get off. I had to use dish soap and water in the kitchen sink, but realized quickly I needed to get him in a bath tub and soap him down to get it all off. Nobody is "wiping" that stuff off their child. If it gets on a child with no access to dish soap and a bathtub, it going to be everywhere and the child will look like chimney sweep who just crawled out of a chimney.

Thanks RainCheck. I thought that may be the case. So if little DeOrr was covered in tacky muck from the tailpipe, the odds are he would have transferred it to his clothing and other parts of himself. VK doesn't mention anything about having to give DeOrr a good wash to get the stuff off him so it would have also been transferred to what his parents were wearing that morning as well as any vehicles DeOrr was placed into.

IMO the tailpipe incident didn't happen at all that morning. VK is talking about an earlier incident where this happened or is referencing a story he's heard about someone else entirely.