ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

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In the 9 second TV interview out-take video released by KIC, whose voice is this? ---
"Say 'had' ..... 'has', don't say 'had' ... can't do that"

If he did something alone, why is she going along with it and allowing him to coach her? Has she agreed to help cover up but doesn't really know what happened to DeOrr? Both have failed polygraphs. I guess I don't see how one of them could know what happened and not the other...
 
Does anyone know the size and type of the camping trailer? It was pulled by a Chevy Suburban which is not a pickup truck, therefore the camper can't be a fifth-wheel trailer and can't be a slide-on. So it's towed with a normal towball. It must be fairly small because only one person out of the party 5 of slept in it. It probably doesn't have a toliet (see video of V stating he could hear camper door when B was getting up in night). So it's a probably a 1 bedrooom camping trailer? Are there any photos of it?
 
How awful that here we have so many varying theories of what could have happened to little DeOrr.

Because of the 'allegedly' lies and misinformation that has been given by those involved it isn't possible to form a clear understanding of the circumstances that occurred in last few days that little DeOrr was seen alive and well.

An innocent three year old disappears - FGS what happened? Where is he? He's such a little child. So many people caring and searching for answers. Sometimes I do despair of those who walk among us. I do hope there is an answer one day. JMOO

This Deorr case has crossed my mind so many times with all of the JonBenet Ramsey news this week. We still don't really know what happened to her and it's been 20 years. I hope some adults start speaking the truth on behalf of Deorr.
 
If he did something alone, why is she going along with it and allowing him to coach her? Has she agreed to help cover up but doesn't really know what happened to DeOrr? Both have failed polygraphs. I guess I don't see how one of them could know what happened and not the other...
In a completely hypothetical case I would imagine someone might genuinely not know what happened but might still be significantly less than truthful because there might be secondary issues not being mentioned, or to protect someone they like, or if they privately have suspicions but can't believe them, or many different sorts of reasons, MOO.
 
1. If something happened at the campsite while 2 adults were downstream at fishing place, even if two adults were at campsite. one of them might for example have been napping or inside and not known.
2. If the child wandered and was maybe asleep (at time when noticed missing) then whatever happened would be after that time, and not at campsite, and in that case how many people were at campsite would be irrelevant.
Just trying to keep all possibilities open until I've read all the information that's been released.

Then are you suggesting that little DeOrr was sleepwalking? "If the child wandered and was maybe asleep ... ."(?)
 
In a completely hypothetical case I would imagine someone might genuinely not know what happened but might still be significantly less than truthful because there might be secondary issues not being mentioned, or to protect someone they like, or if they privately have suspicions but can't believe them, or many different sorts of reasons, MOO.

But hypothetically.... dad does something and mom is afraid of dad and covers for him. They later break up and she remarries.... why continue the charade? Police can offer protection...

IMO a mother who isn't guilty would.never cover for someone who hurt their child. And we can't use the excuse that she could be abused and fear for her life... she has a new husband after all. Same scenario when switched. If dad wasn't guilty why cover for the woman who left you?

If it was genuinely one person acting alone the finger would have been squarely pointed at them since day one. Why on earth would 3 adults protect just one of them, especially over a defenseless toddler?

I will say again... to me it makes ZERO sense for any one of them to have acted alone. We have discussed here at length why IR couldn't have feasibly done it alone (when the family.tried steering us in that direction). We have discussed how GGP couldn't have done it alone. So therefore, neither V or J could have acted alone without the others knowing. They all have their timelines and none of those give enough alone time for anyone to kill and hide a child so well they have yet to be found. It is literally impossible.
 
But hypothetically.... dad does something and mom is afraid of dad and covers for him. They later break up and she remarries.... why continue the charade? Police can offer protection...

IMO a mother who isn't guilty would.never cover for someone who hurt their child. And we can't use the excuse that she could be abused and fear for her life... she has a new husband after all. Same scenario when switched. If dad wasn't guilty why cover for the woman who left you?

If it was genuinely one person acting alone the finger would have been squarely pointed at them since day one. Why on earth would 3 adults protect just one of them, especially over a defenseless toddler?

I will say again... to me it makes ZERO sense for any one of them to have acted alone. We have discussed here at length why IR couldn't have feasibly done it alone (when the family.tried steering us in that direction). We have discussed how GGP couldn't have done it alone. So therefore, neither V or J could have acted alone without the others knowing. They all have their timelines and none of those give enough alone time for anyone to kill and hide a child so well they have yet to be found. It is literally impossible.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I will add that the only way one of the four could have disappeared DeOrr on his/her own, in my opinion, would have been through an arranged abduction with DeOrr being handed off to a third party. There is zero evidence of this and it would definitely require major planning and communication, not to mention the involvement of an outsider, all of which would leave trails. I believe this avenue has been explored by LE and investigators and they have basically ruled out any form of abduction. I just cannot buy into any theory in which only one of the four adults at the campground knows what happened to DeOrr.
 
I now think that J's description of the diesel purchase that morning (see video released by KIC) is probably correct that diesel was obtained at a place that looked like a closed gas station, along the road from the shop, and probably correct that it was possible to prepay at motel over the road, and incorrect only in name of motel. MOO

Or, just another of many inconsistent stories, aka deceptions, lies, etc.

That aside, according to IR, Deorr and VDK were following him down to the creek, but he looked back and didn't see them, they were "lagging" behind.

Yet according to JM and VDK in their earlier interviews, they both went down to the creek TOGETHER to look at a fishing spot WITH IR. And, left Deorr with GGP.

Or, GGP thought Deorr went with them. So which is it? With all due respect, you can't have it three different ways. Which way are you saying it might be? Or do you have yet another scenario to offer into the mix? TIA
 
In a completely hypothetical case I would imagine someone might genuinely not know what happened but might still be significantly less than truthful because there might be secondary issues not being mentioned, or to protect someone they like, or if they privately have suspicions but can't believe them, or many different sorts of reasons, MOO.

They have since split up. Why would either protect one or the other? Unless they both played a part in his disappearance. JMO
 
This Deorr case has crossed my mind so many times with all of the JonBenet Ramsey news this week. We still don't really know what happened to her and it's been 20 years. I hope some adults start speaking the truth on behalf of Deorr.



O/T no doubt, but we still have absolutely no idea what happened to Madeleine McCann after 9 years. How does this happen to children, someone's little child. :gaah:
 
I think fire would be right up there with vehicles, although I lean more toward a vehicular accident. Something I questioned very early in this case was the dogs going from the site to the reservoir. I think it's possible that the truck was washed at the reservoir. If he was run over, his scent would have been on the tires. If the path to the water was gravel instead of dirt or grass there might not have been evidence of the truck being driven there.

I keep thinking of Sheriff Bowerman leaning toward "an intentional homicide." Those are really really strong words.

I also think if an accident happened, someone would have come forward by now. Surely LE has "offered" them this route and warned them to come clean saying they might serve a little time or none at all, opposed to LE finding Deorr's body themselves and pressing who knows what charges against them.

It's hard for me to envision that they killed him "on purpose." I think if Vernal snapped he did so with no forethought. Also, if they wanted to rid themselves of their young son, they could've done so in a way that looked like an accident with no suspicion (horrible thought, but say, if they "helped" Deorr into the reservoir, or they left him far away on the mountain to fend for himself, knowing searchers wouldn't look that far, or by the time they did Deorr would be deceased, overcome by the elements or victim of an animal attack. And, not to sound like a broken record, if there was an accident, they must have a REALLY DAMN GOOD reason to cover it up. Like some have surmised, to cover it up so LE doesn't find out about drug use or other irresponsible and/or illegal behavior that contributed to Deorr's death. And, as I've always said, I think if it was an accident, they may have covered it up so their families and friends and the whole wide world would not be privy to signs of ongoing prior abuse (just a theory of mine, and if/when they find the body it'll probably be late to determine that by now anyway. I do wonder how Deorr was "disciplined" and if anyone ever witnessed any abuse).

It's pretty dang near impossible to speculate about ANYTHING because we have so few facts to go on. We know they've lied and continued to lie even about things that presumably people don't lie about (who made breakfast or what they ate, for instance). And most of all, it's almost a moot point to theorize a lot of what we do in this case because Deorr may never have been on the mountain! All we can do is hope and trust that LE and Klein DO have evidence and that more will be found, and that someone comes forward with information. I pray every day for this to happen.

Until then, yes, I too will continue to speculate, wonder, ponder, theorize, brainstorm, suspect, etc. I want this case solved and justice served, and it makes me ill to think it may never be.
 
Then are you suggesting that little DeOrr was sleepwalking? "If the child wandered and was maybe asleep ... ."(?)
Apologies, I meant wandered away some distance from the campsite, and then fell asleep on the ground.
 
But hypothetically.... dad does something and mom is afraid of dad and covers for him. They later break up and she remarries.... why continue the charade? Police can offer protection...

IMO a mother who isn't guilty would.never cover for someone who hurt their child. And we can't use the excuse that she could be abused and fear for her life... she has a new husband after all. Same scenario when switched. If dad wasn't guilty why cover for the woman who left you?

If it was genuinely one person acting alone the finger would have been squarely pointed at them since day one. Why on earth would 3 adults protect just one of them, especially over a defenseless toddler?

I will say again... to me it makes ZERO sense for any one of them to have acted alone. We have discussed here at length why IR couldn't have feasibly done it alone (when the family.tried steering us in that direction). We have discussed how GGP couldn't have done it alone. So therefore, neither V or J could have acted alone without the others knowing. They all have their timelines and none of those give enough alone time for anyone to kill and hide a child so well they have yet to be found. It is literally impossible.
What I was hypothesing was an accident, accidentally caused by one adult, which absolutely no other adult knew about. In that hypothesis one would see one adult falsely describing own actions in certain short periods of time. And any inaccurate presentations of facts by others would be not because of knowing what happened, but for other reasons.
 
What I was hypothesing was an accident, accidentally caused by one adult, which absolutely no other adult knew about. In that hypothesis one would see one adult falsely describing own actions in certain short periods of time. And any inaccurate presentations of facts by others would be not because of knowing what happened, but for other reasons.

In those circumstances you would have to rule out GGP as he was not capable of disposing of a body without trace within the given time period. JM & VK are either alibis for each other or accusing each other, which makes them innocent in my eyes.
JMO.
 
Does anyone know which tree the "diaper" tree is? A photo of it would be useful.
 
What I was hypothesing was an accident, accidentally caused by one adult, which absolutely no other adult knew about. In that hypothesis one would see one adult falsely describing own actions in certain short periods of time. And any inaccurate presentations of facts by others would be not because of knowing what happened, but for other reasons.

But even if that happened- from what I understand about your hypothesis you mean what if Deorr wandered away, fell asleep in some grass, and when VDK drove to look or call 911 he hit him with the truck and chose to hide it from the other 3 adults-- let's say that happened, then HOW in such a short time Does Vernal wash the truck and dispose of the body as well as concoct a story and head back to the campsite? He had to hide the body so well it still hasn't been found to this day. How can that be accomplished in, say, 20 minutes?

Not to mention we already know (?) Vernal didn't drive down the road for signal and was beside Jessica when she called 911... right?

Any other possible scenario won't fit the story/stories given by any of the people involved....
 
In those circumstances you would have to rule out GGP as he was not capable of disposing of a body without trace within the given time period. JM & VK are either alibis for each other or accusing each other, which makes them innocent in my eyes.
JMO.

Am I reading this correctly? You are ruling out GGP and saying you think V and J are innocent? So... you suspect IR? Or the "mountain lion"?
 
I think it's more likely that Deorr rode off on an elephant than his parents being innocent.

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk
 
Am I reading this correctly? You are ruling out GGP and saying you think V and J are innocent? So... you suspect IR? Or the "mountain lion"?

I would rule out those 3 in a hypothetical situation where one person acted alone without the knowledge of the others.
 
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