But Jessica saw IR in her peripheral while focusing on her pole.in the creek and turned to see him moving closer to her. Even if he was in a spot with loud water, if she saw him that easily he would have had to have seen her scream and throw her pole and run. I've said this 3 times: by her account they crossed a log, walked downstream, and then crossed rocks in the creek to reach a piece of land in the Centre of the water. So she would have had to retrace those steps after Vernal yelled to her. She claims to throw the pole and run, presumably screaming and frantic. So if IR was close enough in sight to be noticed in her PERIPHERAL while fishing, he would be close enough to see her presumably distraught after hearing her son has vanished. Right?!
ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28
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But Jessica saw IR in her peripheral while focusing on her pole.in the creek and turned to see him moving closer to her. Even if he was in a spot with loud water, if she saw him that easily he would have had to have seen her scream and throw her pole and run. I've said this 3 times: by her account they crossed a log, walked downstream, and then crossed rocks in the creek to reach a piece of land in the Centre of the water. So she would have had to retrace those steps after Vernal yelled to her. She claims to throw the pole and run, presumably screaming and frantic. So if IR was close enough in sight to be noticed in her PERIPHERAL while fishing, he would be close enough to see her presumably distraught after hearing her son has vanished. Right?!
Hypothetically there could have been an accident which was not a pure accident but which was caused in part by an action of an adult, also hypothetically poossible that no-one else witnessed it. MOO.
A very useful collection of photos of the campsite and creek
https://youtu.be/7zr6r0ozYYY
https://youtu.be/7zr6r0ozYYY
Presumably she saw him at some distance through gaps in the trees and bushes between them. He might not have been looking at her..
There are several good photos of creek island in link in my previous post.
For example here is one photo https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7zr6r0ozYYY/maxresdefault.jpg
Pretty hard to notice.someone in your peripheral vision while you're focused on fishing. Her description makes it sound like he's fairly close. She's not a horse, she doesn't have eyes on the side of her head. Your peripheral vision only covers so far. Not a great distance and through trees IMO
I hope LE have had J, V and IR each individually retrace their steps from the campground to where each of them went at the creek. To take each of them out there alone to recreate that time period would be a fantastic way of seeing what stories add up.
Groundwork
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I personally do not find it particularly odd that IR wouldn't respond to JM 'screaming' at the creek. If she says she screamed, remember, that is her report of her behavior. If it did in fact happen that way, her version of 'screamed' may be much different than someone else's; she seems to be less outwardly emotional than lots of other people. I also just know people who get lost in their own world (especially when out in nature), who probably wouldn't have noticed JM's actions. Another possibility is that IR just didn't really care what was going on...he had no responsibility to anyone else there, and seeing JM freak out, he may have just said to himself that if it were his business someone would let him know what was going on.
I have always felt like IR could easily have been led to believe certain things about the trip based on the fact that he doesn't have kids, apparently lives alone and is basically only responsible for himself, and was not emotionally connected at all to JM or VK. Not being critical, but I know people who have no interest in children or no interest in children that aren't theirs, and people who have lived alone and done their own thing for so long, they seem disconnected from others around them. It would not surprise me if IR never saw Baby DeOrr at all, but completely believed he was on the trip.
Other than the fact that LE does not seem to buy the disappearance story, my biggest sticking point with the whole situation is their descriptions of the period just before the 911 call was made. After hearing TC describe in some detail her experience with finding out Baby DeOrr was missing, I went back and re-listened to every interview the parents have done that we have access to. Their own words (not their reported words) are that they 'immediately' called 911, they 'frantically' dialed 911, they searched for 20 minutes and as soon as it became clear the baby was gone they made the call. They never mention repeatedly calling TC, waiting for her to call back, and only then, because she told them to, calling 911.
TC's statement was that she went on break and noticed lots of missed calls. She worried it was about her dad. She called back, not getting through immediately, then finally talked to a hysterical JM. TC says she was not super worried about the baby because she knew the area and believed it to be very safe. She then says that when she got home, she headed up...she does not say she left work right away. Chelsea asked her if JM called TC before she called 911; TC replied 'That is true.' She said she asked JM if she had called 911, told her she needed to call 911, and that JM's next call was to 911.
Calling someone over and over, waiting for that person to call back, talking to them and explaining what is happening, discussing all the most likely scenerios and then calling 911 after that person suggests it is very different from realizing your son is missing and then immediately calling 911 IMO.
I have always felt like IR could easily have been led to believe certain things about the trip based on the fact that he doesn't have kids, apparently lives alone and is basically only responsible for himself, and was not emotionally connected at all to JM or VK. Not being critical, but I know people who have no interest in children or no interest in children that aren't theirs, and people who have lived alone and done their own thing for so long, they seem disconnected from others around them. It would not surprise me if IR never saw Baby DeOrr at all, but completely believed he was on the trip.
Other than the fact that LE does not seem to buy the disappearance story, my biggest sticking point with the whole situation is their descriptions of the period just before the 911 call was made. After hearing TC describe in some detail her experience with finding out Baby DeOrr was missing, I went back and re-listened to every interview the parents have done that we have access to. Their own words (not their reported words) are that they 'immediately' called 911, they 'frantically' dialed 911, they searched for 20 minutes and as soon as it became clear the baby was gone they made the call. They never mention repeatedly calling TC, waiting for her to call back, and only then, because she told them to, calling 911.
TC's statement was that she went on break and noticed lots of missed calls. She worried it was about her dad. She called back, not getting through immediately, then finally talked to a hysterical JM. TC says she was not super worried about the baby because she knew the area and believed it to be very safe. She then says that when she got home, she headed up...she does not say she left work right away. Chelsea asked her if JM called TC before she called 911; TC replied 'That is true.' She said she asked JM if she had called 911, told her she needed to call 911, and that JM's next call was to 911.
Calling someone over and over, waiting for that person to call back, talking to them and explaining what is happening, discussing all the most likely scenerios and then calling 911 after that person suggests it is very different from realizing your son is missing and then immediately calling 911 IMO.
But J does not say she screamed while at the creek .Listen at 6:35s in video."JMA descibes..." at https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/videos
There is mention of screaming while at the creek.
There is mention of screaming while at the creek.
At 4m31 in the Ist video of IR's timeline, he says that RW asked him to show VK & JA the fishing hole where they (IR & RW) had been fishing earlier. "We got all the fishing gear ready".
[video=youtube;OWCFhAtLjcs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWCFhAtLjcs[/video]
Who carried the fishing gear to the hole? If both JA & IR were purportedly fishing in 2 different places, that meant at least 2 rods plus2 sets of bait & weights?
[video=youtube;OWCFhAtLjcs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWCFhAtLjcs[/video]
Who carried the fishing gear to the hole? If both JA & IR were purportedly fishing in 2 different places, that meant at least 2 rods plus2 sets of bait & weights?
I learned something new, not far from the campsite is this ford, source https://youtu.be/7zr6r0ozYYY?t=5m19s
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The two parents went out to the site with Vilt & undertook a reconstruction. It would be very remiss of LE if they had not also done the same thing.
[video=youtube;CzGrVTYrzb8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzGrVTYrzb8[/video]
Hmm.. yes who carried it and how nuch gear did they take? wasn't the initial story that they were only gone for 10 minutes? Why did Vernal head back to the campsite when he discovered Deorr missing? Did they forget some gear? Those points seem glossed over or left out.
Yes I remember them doing that. That's why I'm curious if LE did one with them each individually, as well as with IR. Because Jessica just described their movements alone to Klein. Let's see if that's the same.movements described by V and IR. That's what I would love to know.
D
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With all due respect, I'm sure LE has crossed all their Ts and dotted all their Is.
IMO it's important to establish whether IR had to return to the campsite after leaving the fishing hole to get his rod & equipment.
VK allegedly returned to the campsite to collect Deorr & take him to see the fish. It was then Deorr was found to be missing.
IR also said in the video that he left both JA & VK at the fishing hole. Therefore it must have been apparent to him at that stage Deorr was not with them.
neesaki
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Ugh, there's been so many changes in the stories from three different people, I don't know how we can possibly keep it straight. I know I can't.
Exactly. None of the stories add up.
Especially considering they said they were only gone 10+ minutes before going back for Deorr. That leaves very little time for something to happen to Deorr at that point in time. Which brings me back to the thought he was gone before they went to the creek.
Even for people who want to say that it could be IR, how could IR have grabbed Deorr and harmed him and hid him in the supposed few short minutes V and J were at the creek. All without GGP or V and J noticing him.
Think about a scenario in which IR/JA/VK had left the campsite & walked upstream, out of RW's eyesight. Deorr went to sit on the edge of the bank, playing in the dirt. Is it possible he suddenly caught sight of his parents upstream, crossing the creek? What would a 2 year old have done in those circumstances?
When the dog left the log that bridges the creek (see latest KIC video) I think she would have gone back towards the campsite.
Now there is an unwatched child and a dog not tied up.
Maybe the child and dog are playing and she runs off and he follows?
ft he walks downhill but not into the trees he would come to the ford.
200 yards that's all.
Now there is an unwatched child and a dog not tied up.
Maybe the child and dog are playing and she runs off and he follows?
ft he walks downhill but not into the trees he would come to the ford.
200 yards that's all.
Maybe. At the end of the cleared area (campground) is this steep drop down to the creek. https://youtu.be/7zr6r0ozYYY
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