ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[Deleted member 278]

It snowed in Lemhi County this weekend. Penner said searches were going to be put off until this Fall. Someone should let him know it looks like winter has arrived.

http://idahostatejournal.com/news/l...cle_91b17268-1885-546c-bd46-6690140a3ac4.html

 

[KatieLiz]

I think that Jessica, Vernal and Gramps are the ones that are having the most accurate dreams.

I hope they are haunted nightly.

 

[kammiemc]

Yeah. There are probably many more inconsistencies that LE knows about and we are probably not even privy to.

I think what this one tells me is they were waiting to start their "act" with the Grandma first to get another "friendly witness" or person on their side that could vouche for them that they had just lost their child. It sure would be interesting to see the call log pattern of those attempted calls.

The whole thing is so hokey with their actions involving the 911 calls to LE and their original interview. I think they were so worried about sounding believable when calling 911 that they actually made themselves look guilty in the process.

I agree. I know there has been a lot of speculation that gma was in on the coverup, and while that is possible, I think it's also possible that an act was pulled on her. (Especially at that time, she might have known nothing.)


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[neesaki]

Hopefully, as in the Jacob Wetterling case, it won't take 26 years to find this dear sweet baby. As in the end, the criminal was found out. What does that make this baby's parent's? Much more than criminals, as they were his parents. So what are they, child abusers, molesters, or whatever can be contrived from their lack of forthcoming, forthright information. It is their choice. Now, or pay the price later. JMO

 

[Courtre]

All JMO
ok....I think I may have found something that is quite damning to the parents story. I have been searching back through interviews and things trying to find something and this is something that doesn't jive with what the parents told LE.

Remember how the parents said when they called 911 they had been looking only for about 1/2 hour to maybe an hour at most. Well listen carefully to this interview with grandma and focus on what she is saying about ALL the missed calls she saw on her phone from JM. Then at exactly the 5:40 mark listen very carefully to what we are being told. We are told that the Mom only called 911 AFTER she had spoken to grandma.

Well then, what does this mean?
It means that in order for JM to had made ALL those other calls to grandma's phone that were missed before she finally got ahold of her, then MUCH more time had to have gone by with the boy being missing.
There were a slew of missed calls according to what we are hearing. And notice carefully that when she finally got ahold of her that she could not make out a word that JM was saying.

This is telling because it means the "act" started right there and she was waiting until she got ahold of her mom before they pulled the trigger with the act and calling 911. Because lets put anybody else in their shoes while you are missing your son. There is no way you would wait on getting ahold of someone that may or may not ever answer before you call 911 to get help searching for a missing child. But more importantly there is no way only 1/2 hour or so of searching had gone on before calling 911. There were a slew of missed calls which means she was probably trying to get ahold of her all morning long is my guess. This is where the parents are caught in a definite lie or fib at least.

All JMO of course

http://www.localnews8.com/news/exte...dma-of-missing-toddler-deorr-kunz-jr/39482978

I know I'm going to get a ton of backlash for this comment, but... I had a roommate who didn't latch the gate, and my 4 dogs roamed the neighborhood for 2 hours until I came home from work. One of the dogs is aggressive, and I knew that if she felt threatened, she could attack. They were Pit Bulls, so even if they just scratched a kid, they'd probably be euthanized. I was frantic, and didn't know what to do... where to start. I called my mom. She gave me a list of places to start searching, and she was going to start to make calls to get together people to help me search. They were all at the first place my mom suggested to look. At the playground... acting like they were on a field trip. I know it's different if you lost your child... but whenever I'm frantic, and need help, I always call my mom. She always has a way to fix everything.

 

[zencompass]

I see your point, Courtre, and it is a good point!

 

[KatieLiz]

I know I'm going to get a ton of backlash for this comment, but... I had a roommate who didn't latch the gate, and my 4 dogs roamed the neighborhood for 2 hours until I came home from work. One of the dogs is aggressive, and I knew that if she felt threatened, she could attack. They were Pit Bulls, so even if they just scratched a kid, they'd probably be euthanized. I was frantic, and didn't know what to do... where to start. I called my mom. She gave me a list of places to start searching, and she was going to start to make calls to get together people to help me search. They were all at the first place my mom suggested to look. At the playground... acting like they were on a field trip. I know it's different if you lost your child... but whenever I'm frantic, and need help, I always call my mom. She always has a way to fix everything.

Courtre- I totally agree with you and I always call my mom too. I never found it odd at first because I thought she literally called her mom and then called 911 right after. That was before we found out that there were multiple missed calls.over a period of time, and then multiple 911 calls staged and pretending to be at different locations when in fact standing beside each other.

I honestly believed VDK and JMA for the first while and totally could understand her calling her mom. But that was before the details came out and their stories unraveled. IMO.

 

[ReadySet]

Respectfully, that is not a good comparison.
Are people expected to call 911 if their dogs are missing?
They are if a child is missing.
Did you call 911 after you called your mom?
Do you see what I mean?
We can't forget Jessica Anderson and Vernal Kunz are suspects in a homicide investigation of their own missing child.

I know I'm going to get a ton of backlash for this comment, but... I had a roommate who didn't latch the gate, and my 4 dogs roamed the neighborhood for 2 hours until I came home from work. One of the dogs is aggressive, and I knew that if she felt threatened, she could attack. They were Pit Bulls, so even if they just scratched a kid, they'd probably be euthanized. I was frantic, and didn't know what to do... where to start. I called my mom. She gave me a list of places to start searching, and she was going to start to make calls to get together people to help me search. They were all at the first place my mom suggested to look. At the playground... acting like they were on a field trip. I know it's different if you lost your child... but whenever I'm frantic, and need help, I always call my mom. She always has a way to fix everything.

 

[Ekkwhine]

I'm a "call my mum for everything" kind of girl, even last week at 1am when one of my dogs got out of my garden during last pee times. However, we went camping three weeks ago, it's slightly different as we're in the UK but that only makes it a safer scenario, for want of a better word, perhaps not safer as there were a LOT of strangers around, anyway, I digress. My three year old vanished. We were all sat outside the tent and unbeknown to us he crawled out of a space from inside, out of our view. We were frantic, as you can imagine, but it never once occurred to me to call my mum, not once.

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[Ekkwhine]

Just to add we found him about 10 minutes later, totally oblivious to everything. I didn't know whether to shout or hug him so I did both whilst crying I think. He was very confused.

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[Cricket99]

I know I'm going to get a ton of backlash for this comment, but... I had a roommate who didn't latch the gate, and my 4 dogs roamed the neighborhood for 2 hours until I came home from work. One of the dogs is aggressive, and I knew that if she felt threatened, she could attack. They were Pit Bulls, so even if they just scratched a kid, they'd probably be euthanized. I was frantic, and didn't know what to do... where to start. I called my mom. She gave me a list of places to start searching, and she was going to start to make calls to get together people to help me search. They were all at the first place my mom suggested to look. At the playground... acting like they were on a field trip. I know it's different if you lost your child... but whenever I'm frantic, and need help, I always call my mom. She always has a way to fix everything.

Courtre, I love your comments - being a Mom it made me feel good and having lost my Mom I remember feeling the same about her. I still think If I lost my child, however, I would be able to act prior to getting hold of anyone other than LE. I hope the truth comes out eventually.

 

[KatieLiz]

Just to add we found him about 10 minutes later, totally oblivious to everything. I didn't know whether to shout or hug him so I did both whilst crying I think. He was very confused.

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Oh you poor thing!!! That must have been terrifying!!

After reading he was safe I had to chuckle at you saying you shouted and cried and he was confused. I would have reacted the same way and my almost three year old would have been just as confused!

 

[Hoosier952]

I feel like I could look past a frantic call or two to mom before calling 911, but multiple unanswered calls and "about an hour" before she called 911...sorry, not buying it.

I've been thinking about the multiple 911 calls, and I'm starting to wonder if TBC was angry with JA for not calling 911, and threatened to call 911 herself. Maybe she called GGP telling him to call.

I'm just trying to think of how my own mother would have reacted if I would have spent an hour trying to call her while my child was missing. I cannot fathom a situation that wouldn't include a bunch of anger.

And another thing that just popped into my brain- We are to believe that reception is sketchy on the mountain. So sketchy that VDK had to drive to get service. Yet JA managed to get multiple calls out to her mom. I know when I'm in a spotty service area, I tend to stand still anywhere I know I have reception. So either reception was a lot better than we're lead to believe, or JA was standing around making phone calls because there was no urgency to get SAR there. Either way, it's just another hole in the story. Of course, we're already nearly 100% positive VDK didn't actually drive up the mountain. Which leads me to believe they were just sitting around having a grand ol' kidless vacation planning their tales.

 

[Hatfield]

I know I'm going to get a ton of backlash for this comment, but... I had a roommate who didn't latch the gate, and my 4 dogs roamed the neighborhood for 2 hours until I came home from work. One of the dogs is aggressive, and I knew that if she felt threatened, she could attack. They were Pit Bulls, so even if they just scratched a kid, they'd probably be euthanized. I was frantic, and didn't know what to do... where to start. I called my mom. She gave me a list of places to start searching, and she was going to start to make calls to get together people to help me search. They were all at the first place my mom suggested to look. At the playground... acting like they were on a field trip. I know it's different if you lost your child... but whenever I'm frantic, and need help, I always call my mom. She always has a way to fix everything.

No backlash as a lot of us would also think to try calling our parents first for advice. That was not the strange part though. The strange part was it appears they may have lied to LE and it appears they did not call 911 to get help to look for their child until after what appears to be a very long time. They made a bunch of calls trying to get ahold of the Mom and never called 911 until they finally got ahold of her. There is no telling how long they actually waited without the call logs but from listening to that interview, we can assume it could have been quite some time. Perhaps hours or perhaps all morning long they could have waited to get help from 911 about the missing child. That is what is strange.

 

[Hatfield]

I feel like I could look past a frantic call or two to mom before calling 911, but multiple unanswered calls and "about an hour" before she called 911...sorry, not buying it.

I've been thinking about the multiple 911 calls, and I'm starting to wonder if TBC was angry with JA for not calling 911, and threatened to call 911 herself. Maybe she called GGP telling him to call.

I'm just trying to think of how my own mother would have reacted if I would have spent an hour trying to call her while my child was missing. I cannot fathom a situation that wouldn't include a bunch of anger.

And another thing that just popped into my brain- We are to believe that reception is sketchy on the mountain. So sketchy that VDK had to drive to get service. Yet JA managed to get multiple calls out to her mom. I know when I'm in a spotty service area, I tend to stand still anywhere I know I have reception. So either reception was a lot better than we're lead to believe, or JA was standing around making phone calls because there was no urgency to get SAR there. Either way, it's just another hole in the story. Of course, we're already nearly 100% positive VDK didn't actually drive up the mountain. Which leads me to believe they were just sitting around having a grand ol' kidless vacation planning their tales.

Exactly.

They had no way of knowing when Mom would eventually get back to them.

So while valuable time is being waisted where they could have gotten help to search for the boy they choose to keep trying to call someone else. Over and Over again.

We obviously need the call logs to get actual times but I am willing to bet they may have tried calling the Mom for maybe a couple hours or more.

 

[Ekkwhine]

I feel like I could look past a frantic call or two to mom before calling 911, but multiple unanswered calls and "about an hour" before she called 911...sorry, not buying it.

I've been thinking about the multiple 911 calls, and I'm starting to wonder if TBC was angry with JA for not calling 911, and threatened to call 911 herself. Maybe she called GGP telling him to call.

I'm just trying to think of how my own mother would have reacted if I would have spent an hour trying to call her while my child was missing. I cannot fathom a situation that wouldn't include a bunch of anger.

And another thing that just popped into my brain- We are to believe that reception is sketchy on the mountain. So sketchy that VDK had to drive to get service. Yet JA managed to get multiple calls out to her mom. I know when I'm in a spotty service area, I tend to stand still anywhere I know I have reception. So either reception was a lot better than we're lead to believe, or JA was standing around making phone calls because there was no urgency to get SAR there. Either way, it's just another hole in the story. Of course, we're already nearly 100% positive VDK didn't actually drive up the mountain. Which leads me to believe they were just sitting around having a grand ol' kidless vacation planning their tales.

My mum would never forgive me, I'm sure of it.

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[Ekkwhine]

Oh you poor thing!!! That must have been terrifying!!

After reading he was safe I had to chuckle at you saying you shouted and cried and he was confused. I would have reacted the same way and my almost three year old would have been just as confused!

I can honestly say I've never been so scared in my entire life, and about a million scenarios ran through my head in the seconds after I realised he'd gone. I didn't know whether to wait by our camp whilst everyone else looked incase he returned, which felt like I was doing nothing, but when I started running and asking other campers nearby I was fretting incase he returned and I wasn't there. It was just the worst feeling in the world.

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[The Apparition]

I call B.S on the call to mom scenario also. I can totally see calling mom for sick baby advice, missing dog advice, marital help, etc... When your toddler "disappears" in the woods around a swift moving stream, near a reservoir you gotta call the COPS. If for some reason you can't get it together to do that you start screaming at your husband, GGP, or even your new friend Issac to call 911 while you call your mom. Personally I can imagine no scenario where it would take me long to call 911 if my toddler was missing in a similar situation, but than again I'm not an animal.

This case really shows the finest in humanity (sarcasm) as we have multiple people who damn well know what happened as well as a couple of others who seem likely to know more than they are letting on.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

An elderly man on oxygen and needing diapers but able to tow a camper with his truck hundred miles goes onto his maybe last fishing trip. Not once it is heard of him going to the creek; he sits in his chair at the campground.
A man half his age but his good friend goes with him. He is a little bit psychotic, likes drugs (?), alcohol, has no driver license (?) but seems an appropriate companion.
A man (father of a little boy) hates camping and always tries to get away from camping but takes a day off at his truck company to go on this fishing trip too. If he doesn't like camping then he also doesn't like fishing one could assume.
A woman (mother of a little boy) has being told by her mother to go with her grandfather onto the camping/fishing trip to care for her grandfather. She doesn't like to care and mostly is underway in a car to buy some things, if not food then "feminine hygiene stuff" or she is calling mum for nothing or she goes exploring.
A little man with name Deorr goes on a camping/fishing trip he hadn't asked for with 4 adults who 1. were too unfit (RW) 2. were too unsuitable for caring for the friend (IR) 3. were too unwilling to go there at all (VK) and 4. were too unwilling to care for grandpa and family incl. baby Deorr (JMA).
Two (?) dogs are with them all to decorate the scene in the mountains.

That makes sense to everybody who learns about the trip.

 

[desert-blue]

I think it's a true statement to say that DeOrr's parents/families are not actively doing much of anything to try to find DeOrr (nor have they for quite some time).

If the families believe that Jessica and Vernal are innocent in DeOrr's disappearance, then I can only come up with three options: 1. He wandered off and died due to elements/animals; or 2. He was abducted; or 3. Isaac and/or Bob disappeared DeOrr without the parents noticing anything.

DeOrr isn't going to be found by doing nothing. If he wandered or was abducted then fliers and billboards are crucial. Continued searches should be organized. Hunters should be informed that he is missing and what to be looking for as far as DeOrr's clothing. In the case of abduction, the entire world needs to be alerted, so everyone can be looking for him (including age progressions, even if at the expense of the family). If Bob or Isaac disappeared DeOrr, then it seems highly likely that at least one other person had to have been involved. There is just no way that Bob and/or Isaac had the means or the time to disappear DeOrr on their own, leaving no trace (given the parents' time line). If there is another person involved, then the families ought to offer up some reward money to get someone to talk.

Plastering fliers, putting up billboards, and offering reward money - those seem like the best ways to find DeOrr. Press releases and lots of media coverage would also be helpful. Yet there is nothing but silence from the families.

I am grappling with what their silence means. It sends the message to me that they do not want DeOrr to be found. They don't want hunters to find his body. They don't want the world to know about DeOrr. They don't want to offer reward money and bring in tips. They don't want to go on television. They aren't organizing searches anymore. Why? I keep asking myself that. Why? Why do they not want him found? They say that they do, but what are they doing? Their actions indicate that they don't want him found which can only mean one thing to me: they are protecting the suspects. I can think of no other reason. And if they are protecting the suspects, doesn't that imply that they think Jessica and Vernal are responsible for DeOrr's disappearance? Why will no one stand up for baby DeOrr?