ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[Little Ol Me]

I'm wondering whether or not there is any statement which says he 100% definite wasn't there, by someone who is certain they definitely would have seen him if he was there.
I wish we had direct quotes of the server at the Stage Shop, and of the server at at the diesel station.

I think as close as we're going to get to direct quotes, is what SB has told us about the clerk.
In the True Crime radio show from Jan. 2016 (found in the media thread) SB. says that the clerk did not even remember Vernal or Jessica being there, until Vernal went back, I'm assuming with SB., as he (SB) does quote the clerk.
" I remember a child, but can't say if it was a boy or girl".
..That's as close as I can come to exact, without listening again.
So IMO she isn't sure at all if Deorr was there or not.

 

[dizzychick]

they didnt take pics I guess right ? not that it matters w/ the ability to photo shop and etc.

 

[KatieLiz]

Reason for use of truck from IR perspective possibly unaware of the mobile reception issue https://youtu.be/hrzdY1ck3Zk?t=4m29s

I thought Klein said VK'S story about leaving in the truck was not true and that he was beside Jessica when she called 911? Did I dream that?

 

[KatieLiz]

I think the only evidence that the child ever arrived at the campground is the words of the 4 adults.
If, based on numerous discrepancies, an investigative decision is made to dismiss their words, that leaves an absence of evidence that the child arrived at the campground.
There is an important difference between that, and finding positive evidence confirming definitely that the child never arrived at the campground.
Is there any positive evidence, that he definitely never arrived? For example did the person who pumped diesel in Leadore say definitely 100% there was no child in the truck? Or did he say that he was not certain?

We don't know. LE are not going to tell us the incriminating evidence that try are gathering for a future trial. Klein is only telling us things that V and J have said themselves and pointing out the inconsistencies. LE would not be saying the things they have if they didn't have evidence supporting their thoughts. JMO.

 

[KatieLiz]

Isn't it possible, that during the time he was not being watched, he might have just wandered off a distance got lost and sat down somewhere?

You keep asking this. I think it's totally "possible", as did the police at the beginning of this investigation. They have since pushed that to the bottom of the list of possibilities. I'm going to trust the people.pulling their hair out to find this child... over the parents who didn't bother to search for 15 months and suddenly decide to right before it snows....

they didnt take pics I guess right ? not that it matters w/ the ability to photo shop and etc.

Nope. Klein said not a single picture.

 

[HoaZi]

Fair bet that at least one of their stops had surveillance cameras. That footage would be gone now, so if LE didn't grab it at the time there's no getting it now. Most of that kind of footage isn't kept long, all the adults needed was a good enough story about him being missing to divert the attention for a few days to a week before anyone would start backtracking.

 

[koios]

I think as close as we're going to get to direct quotes, is what SB has told us about the clerk.
In the True Crime radio show from Jan. 2016 (found in the media thread) SB. says that the clerk did not even remember Vernal or Jessica being there, until Vernal went back, I'm assuming with SB., as he (SB) does quote the clerk.
" I remember a child, but can't say if it was a boy or girl".
..That's as close as I can come to exact, without listening again.
So IMO she isn't sure at all if Deorr was there or not.

Thanks Little Ol Me, so the Stage Shop lady didn't say "There definitely was no child" but actually said "I remember a child".
How about the man who pumped their diesel that morning? I have lost the link for what he said.

 

[neesaki]

I think as close as we're going to get to direct quotes, is what SB has told us about the clerk.
In the True Crime radio show from Jan. 2016 (found in the media thread) SB. says that the clerk did not even remember Vernal or Jessica being there, until Vernal went back, I'm assuming with SB., as he (SB) does quote the clerk.
" I remember a child, but can't say if it was a boy or girl".
..That's as close as I can come to exact, without listening again.
So IMO she isn't sure at all if Deorr was there or not.

I have always questioned that as to whether boy or girl. Deorr doesn't look like a girl, IMO.

 

[misty48]

Thanks Little Ol Me, so the Stage Shop lady didn't say "There definitely was no child" but actually said "I remember a child".How about the man who pumped their diesel that morning? I have lost the link for what he said.

Is this the one?
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/03/kunz-investigator-jessica-mitchell-knows-where-deorrs-body-is/
*snipped*
Eaton:[FONT=&amp] Can you give us examples of the inconsistencies?[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Klein: We can’t even match simple things like filling up with gas at a diesel store in Leadore on the day of the event. He clearly says that the gentleman who was pumping the gas actually saw the child. We interviewed the guy who had supposedly seen the child and he comes back and says, ‘I don’t remember seeing a child.’[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Simple things like a dog in the back of the pickup – there was no dog.[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Little things that investigators look at as simple things Vernal has not been able to verify with us.[/FONT]

 

[koios]

Is this the one?
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/03/kunz-investigator-jessica-mitchell-knows-where-deorrs-body-is/
*snipped*
Eaton:[FONT=&amp] Can you give us examples of the inconsistencies?[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Klein: We can’t even match simple things like filling up with gas at a diesel store in Leadore on the day of the event. He clearly says that the gentleman who was pumping the gas actually saw the child. We interviewed the guy who had supposedly seen the child and he comes back and says, ‘I don’t remember seeing a child.’[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Simple things like a dog in the back of the pickup – there was no dog.[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Little things that investigators look at as simple things Vernal has not been able to verify with us.[/FONT]

Thanks Misty48. If the diesel man had said "I definitely looked inside the back part of the cab and there was definitely no child in there", that would be proof that the child was not there. But if he just said "I don't remember seeing a child", that could mean the child was in the back part of the cab, and the diesel man did not notice.

 

[misty48]

Thanks Misty48. If the diesel man had said "I definitely looked inside the back part of the cab and there was definitely no child in there", that would be proof that the child was not there. But if he just said "I don't remember seeing a child", that could mean the child was in the back part of the cab, and the diesel man did not notice.

The diesel man was not spoken to by Team Klein until several weeks after Deorr disappeared. His recollection of a man in a black truck may well have been hazy at best, non-existent at worst.

 

[Hatfield]

The diesel man was not spoken to by Team Klein until several weeks after Deorr disappeared. His recollection of a man in a black truck may well have been hazy at best, non-existent at worst.

Thats been my problem with the lady at the store too.

Clerks like that see tons of people coming and going all day long and so its really not surprising they cannot remember about a specific person or persons. I had to cross her off as a witness a long time ago once there began to be confusion reports about what she saw or didnt see.

The only way I would expect a clerk like that to remember something like that would be if something remarkable happened to make the incident stand out.

The very first things we started to hear about a possible clerk witness was when we started to hear that someone saw a crying dirty child. But the problem ever since then is nobody was ever able to pin down what day a kid was actually seen and who supposedly saw the child. It became a huge mystery and not sure why other than maybe LE was working with her and maybe told her to not say anything more about it.

I had to cross it all out as unreliable information until more is known about it. Even if she did see a crying dirty child then it could have been on Thursday night when they arrived and not on Friday. I could easily see her mistaking a Thursday 6PM sighting and thinking it was a Friday 6PM sighting. Because by the time LE was asking clerks questions it was probably a few days after that weekend.

It is really sad that no video has been uncovered that showed them in the area when they arrived. It could be one of the reasons that area was chosen was a known lack of video cameras. Either that or someone got extremely lucky that weekend.

Where I really thought there should have been some witnesses would have been the place where they supposedly had a bite to eat that Thursday night. I dont understand why nobody from that place was able to tell LE what they saw or didnt see. Maybe they have and the public is not informed. It could be one of the things that made LE begin to treat them as suspects is if LE began to talk to people that confirmed seeing them alone in the place without a child or something like that.

 

[koios]

The diesel man was not spoken to by Team Klein until several weeks after Deorr disappeared. His recollection of a man in a black truck may well have been hazy at best, non-existent at worst.

The man who pumped their diesel at Leadore that morning stated that "he thought he might have saw the back of the head of an infant" inside the truck cab.
I think that means the child was in the truck. 6:46
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2016/07/12/what-happened-to-deorr-kunz

 

[The Apparition]

The man who pumped their diesel at Leadore that morning stated that "he thought he might have saw the back of the head of an infant" inside the truck cab.
I think that means the child was in the truck. 6:46
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2016/07/12/what-happened-to-deorr-kunz

Well that's it if the guy who pumped their diesel allegedly "thought he might have seen the back of a kids head" it's basically written in stone that little Deorr was in the truck. I've also heard the prime players parents say what good parents Vernal and Jessica were so that must be true also. I guess LE, Klein, and 95% of the board is wrong and we should go back to square one and discuss further dredging the stream and the possibility of an animal attack.

 

[Hoosier952]

I'm not sure if these potential sightings hold water. The clerk at the Stage Shop didn't recall a child until VDK "talked" to her.

The diesel pumper may have seen the back of Deorr's head, but I have a hard time believing Deorr was tall enough for his head to be over a car seat enough for someone pumping diesel to see him.

 

[koios]

Well that's it if the guy who pumped their diesel allegedly "thought he might have seen the back of a kids head" it's basically written in stone that little Deorr was in the truck. I've also heard the prime players parents say what good parents Vernal and Jessica were so that must be true also. I guess LE, Klein, and 95% of the board is wrong and we should go back to square one and discuss further dredging the stream and the possibility of an animal attack.

What the diesel man said comes from a reputable source, audio of the Sheriff.

 

[amateur sleuth]

Well that's it if the guy who pumped their diesel allegedly "thought he might have seen the back of a kids head" it's basically written in stone that little Deorr was in the truck. I've also heard the prime players parents say what good parents Vernal and Jessica were so that must be true also. I guess LE, Klein, and 95% of the board is wrong and we should go back to square one and discuss further dredging the stream and the possibility of an animal attack.

Apparition, love your posts. They are just soooooooo.....can't think of an appropriate word besides,TRUE!

 

[KatieLiz]

Well that's it if the guy who pumped their diesel allegedly "thought he might have seen the back of a kids head" it's basically written in stone that little Deorr was in the truck. I've also heard the prime players parents say what good parents Vernal and Jessica were so that must be true also. I guess LE, Klein, and 95% of the board is wrong and we should go back to square one and discuss further dredging the stream and the possibility of an animal attack.

I heard there are Squatches in them there parts.


PS- Apparition, you're my fave.

 

[KatieLiz]

What the diesel man said comes from a reputable source, audio of the Sheriff.

Apparition isn't questioning the source. The question is how reliable is some random guy thinking they saw the back of a head, or a store clerk remembering one child from some time either a Thursday or Friday?

And on that note- a child secured in a car seat wouldn't have the back of their head easily visible to be seen by someone pumping gas... hmm... I question that and want to hear a deeper explanation on that one. If it were from behind the truck he is more likely to be seeing the top.of the car seat itself. My 3 year old is quite tall and her head can't be seen from my rear window, but the top of her seat can be.

I want to know when for sure was the last time a non family member can say they definitly had eyes on Deorr and/or spoke to him.

The stories and evidence are steering this case in the direction it's going, not us, we are just following along.

Plain and simple- if this child wandered off and was still out there the parents would have been there searching for the past 15 months, would have accepted the national media attention offered, and accepted the reward offered. They would have cooperated fully and encouraged a thorough investigation in order to find their son.
Not obstructed the investigation with ever changing stories.

 

[koios]

Apparition isn't questioning the source. The question is how reliable is some random guy thinking they saw the back of a head, or a store clerk remembering one child from some time either a Thursday or Friday?

And on that note- a child secured in a car seat wouldn't have the back of their head easily visible to be seen by someone pumping gas... hmm... I question that and want to hear a deeper explanation on that one. If it were from behind the truck he is more likely to be seeing the top.of the car seat itself. My 3 year old is quite tall and her head can't be seen from my rear window, but the top of her seat can be.

I want to know when for sure was the last time a non family member can say they definitly had eyes on Deorr and/or spoke to him.

The stories and evidence are steering this case in the direction it's going, not us, we are just following along.

Plain and simple- if this child wandered off and was still out there the parents would have been there searching for the past 15 months, would have accepted the national media attention offered, and accepted the reward offered. They would have cooperated fully and encouraged a thorough investigation in order to find their son.
Not obstructed the investigation with ever changing stories.

Probably the child seat would have been strapped onto of one of the sideways facing jump seats? The diesel inlet is just forward of the driver side rear wheel arch.