ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[ccapriciouss]

I believe the reason why everyone keeps changing their minds on what happened is 1st, because of bad reporting. Then Klein comes along, and he has the nerve to (lie and) express his own opinions as fact. Everyone is believing he has some kind of authority, and exclusive information, which he doesn't. Pretty soon, everything has gotten way out of hand because everyone is believing things that have not even been said by anyone who is said to have said it, nor by anyone who was there.

If I had known about this vote, I guess I would be the one who just has to be different. I am 50/50 on whether DeOrr is alive. I really believe the parents do not know what happened, nor Ggpa, probably not Isaac- not 100% sure on him. Nor the rest of the family, either.

I think it's very easy for a pedo to lay in wait for an opportunity, knowing that with patience there will be more than a few opportunities on a camping trip. I imagine for someone who really wants a kid, esp a pedo, that camping out in the "wilderness" in fact, would be a great, if not, a perfect opportunity.

The day they left to go camping, July 9th, 2015, when it was time to go, Isaac was not home for so long that they almost left without him. I really can visualize Isaac running around to different friends' houses that day. Out of excitement, and for something to say, I can almost hear him telling everyone, "Oh yeah, I am going camping with Bob today, he's bringing some family, I am kinda stressed because I don't know them, they got a kid their taking...etc." No one knows really who the pedos are until something bad happens, or it would never happen. And there's always people around youngsters who no one really knows. Everyone would hear or overhear Isaac, too. It'd just take one.

I believe that if DeOrr died it was at the campground, and not through any knowledge of Ggpa, Jessica, or Vernal. Probably not Isaac either, but I just don't know because quite often, it's the odd friend who was sleeping on the couch that did it...(for those that disappear from their bed at home)...I don't know, I'm maybe 80/20 that it's not Isaac...

I have a question I am dying to ask but I am not sure how or where I go about asking a new question. That's what I am here looking for tonight. Any suggestions?

 

[ccapriciouss]

 

[ccapriciouss]

Actually, the clerk did say later that Vernal was there with a child. That is in one of Sheriff Bowerman's first interviews, with Bessie and TG, (or was it TC?)

 

[Deleted member 102539]

If I would again think about: This disunited parents couple starts "as a family" laughing to drive to Leadore to buy some random things which they usually would have had bought at home before the trip or on their outward trip to the campground. Utter nonsense IF they hadn't to carry out something important instead at that time. :dunno: what?

4 adults are behaving - after the child is missing - like NOT desperate, NOT scared, NOT even fully interested people who are lieing as much as they can or say nothing to clear the situation. Before the trip to the campground: one person is old and not fit, needs a nurse and has a van with a motor problem (?), one person isn't at home when he should have been waiting with his packed camping bag, one person haaates camping, one person allegedly has to play a nurse but has no desire to do this and will indeed not do it.

Why had they all gone on this trip (booze you are able to do at home, you are adults)?? It seems to be a spontaneous unprepared action (no matter what TBC says). AND they needed IR urgently to be with them it seems.
Why should we think about mountain lions or pedophile abductors if the 4 adults don't in remotest behave like that since the call to 911??
All the theories we could have of kidnapping (by animal or pedos) are contradicted (in their behavior) by the 4 adults themselves. IMO

Next thought:
What if Child Care Service had announced a visit and the parents had a problem with that? A medical appointment which was requested by an institution?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I believe the reason why everyone keeps changing their minds on what happened is 1st, because of bad reporting. Then Klein comes along, and he has the nerve to (lie and) express his own opinions as fact. Everyone is believing he has some kind of authority, and exclusive information, which he doesn't. Pretty soon, everything has gotten way out of hand because everyone is believing things that have not even been said by anyone who is said to have said it, nor by anyone who was there.

If I had known about this vote, I guess I would be the one who just has to be different. I am 50/50 on whether DeOrr is alive. I really believe the parents do not know what happened, nor Ggpa, probably not Isaac- not 100% sure on him. Nor the rest of the family, either.

I think it's very easy for a pedo to lay in wait for an opportunity, knowing that with patience there will be more than a few opportunities on a camping trip. I imagine for someone who really wants a kid, esp a pedo, that camping out in the "wilderness" in fact, would be a great, if not, a perfect opportunity.

The day they left to go camping, July 9th, 2015, when it was time to go, Isaac was not home for so long that they almost left without him. I really can visualize Isaac running around to different friends' houses that day. Out of excitement, and for something to say, I can almost hear him telling everyone, "Oh yeah, I am going camping with Bob today, he's bringing some family, I am kinda stressed because I don't know them, they got a kid their taking...etc." No one knows really who the pedos are until something bad happens, or it would never happen. And there's always people around youngsters who no one really knows. Everyone would hear or overhear Isaac, too. It'd just take one.

I believe that if DeOrr died it was at the campground, and not through any knowledge of Ggpa, Jessica, or Vernal. Probably not Isaac either, but I just don't know because quite often, it's the odd friend who was sleeping on the couch that did it...(for those that disappear from their bed at home)...I don't know, I'm maybe 80/20 that it's not Isaac...

I have a question I am dying to ask but I am not sure how or where I go about asking a new question. That's what I am here looking for tonight. Any suggestions?

bbm
You may ask your question! If nobody has interest to give you an answer you will notice. (I've noticed several times. )

 

[skinnycat]

I believe the reason why everyone keeps changing their minds on what happened is 1st, because of bad reporting. Then Klein comes along, and he has the nerve to (lie and) express his own opinions as fact. Everyone is believing he has some kind of authority, and exclusive information, which he doesn't. Pretty soon, everything has gotten way out of hand because everyone is believing things that have not even been said by anyone who is said to have said it, nor by anyone who was there.

If I had known about this vote, I guess I would be the one who just has to be different. I am 50/50 on whether DeOrr is alive. I really believe the parents do not know what happened, nor Ggpa, probably not Isaac- not 100% sure on him. Nor the rest of the family, either.

I think it's very easy for a pedo to lay in wait for an opportunity, knowing that with patience there will be more than a few opportunities on a camping trip. I imagine for someone who really wants a kid, esp a pedo, that camping out in the "wilderness" in fact, would be a great, if not, a perfect opportunity.

The day they left to go camping, July 9th, 2015, when it was time to go, Isaac was not home for so long that they almost left without him. I really can visualize Isaac running around to different friends' houses that day. Out of excitement, and for something to say, I can almost hear him telling everyone, "Oh yeah, I am going camping with Bob today, he's bringing some family, I am kinda stressed because I don't know them, they got a kid their taking...etc." No one knows really who the pedos are until something bad happens, or it would never happen. And there's always people around youngsters who no one really knows. Everyone would hear or overhear Isaac, too. It'd just take one.

I believe that if DeOrr died it was at the campground, and not through any knowledge of Ggpa, Jessica, or Vernal. Probably not Isaac either, but I just don't know because quite often, it's the odd friend who was sleeping on the couch that did it...(for those that disappear from their bed at home)...I don't know, I'm maybe 80/20 that it's not Isaac...

I have a question I am dying to ask but I am not sure how or where I go about asking a new question. That's what I am here looking for tonight. Any suggestions?

I think if your question is pertaining to little DeOrr's case than you would post it in this thread.

I don't believe that Timber Creek is such a busy campground that a pedo is just going to hang around hoping and waiting for a child to show up and the adults watching said child to neglect that duty. In fact you don't even need to make reservations at this campground, it's remote back country.

The stories keep changing, innocent people don't lie, if they told the truth the stories would constantly be the same.

If little DeOrr died at the campsite then where did his remains go, why hide him, why not give him the dignity that he so rightfully deserves

 

[The Apparition]

Actually, the clerk did say later that Vernal was there with a child. That is in one of Sheriff Bowerman's first interviews, with Bessie and TG, (or was it TC?)

Objection your honor, hearsay. Sustained.

I believe Vernal went back to the store and tried to use his quick witted charm on the clerk to "remind" her that he and the child where there earlier. We heard Vernal saying the clerk remembered them, not so much Bowerman though. You and your co-council should be aware that we have LE and Klein (whom you managed to disparage 8 words into your first post, congrats a new record!) saying they have NO PROOF that Deorr ever was alive at the campsite. I see you also are of the blame Issac school of thought, he might be shady but how that silver tongued charmer is supposed to have had time to molest, kill, and hide a toddler behind the backs of 3 adults with only his bare hands and rugged good looks at his disposal is a mystery to me. And oh yeah he only had less than 1 hour to do ALL of this.

 

[skinnycat]

Actually, the clerk did say later that Vernal was there with a child. That is in one of Sheriff Bowerman's first interviews, with Bessie and TG, (or was it TC?)

I don't remember reading or hearing that, I don't remember there being any large discussion on this either,

do you have the link

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

I think if your question is pertaining to little DeOrr's case than you would post it in this thread.

I don't believe that Timber Creek is such a busy campground that a pedo is just going to hang around hoping and waiting for a child to show up and the adults watching said child to neglect that duty. In fact you don't even need to make reservations at this campground, it's remote back country.

The stories keep changing, innocent people don't lie, if they told the truth the stories would constantly be the same.

If little DeOrr died at the campsite then where did his remains go, why hide him, why not give him the dignity that he so rightfully deserves

Plus where is all his stuff? I mean when we went camping with our boys at that ages we took a lot of stuff still do even for one or two nights? I mean diapers, or undies, then you have food, blankets, not just a few toys a lot of toys, etc. Then clothes and sleeping attire. To my knowledge they had one diaper IIRC, that was supposed to last two or three days. Where were his clothes? Even a spontaneous trip would have brought more diapers, nothing makes sense. Plus they claim to have brought dogs, nothing was mentioned until way later, again was there dog food, there was apparently fishing tackle and poles. Seems awfully suspicious that there is very little kids items but food, fishing gear etc to give an appearance.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[desert-blue]

Actually, the clerk did say later that Vernal was there with a child. That is in one of Sheriff Bowerman's first interviews, with Bessie and TG, (or was it TC?)

Bowerman has said himself that he does not believe DeOrr was ever at the campground. If he believed the clerk (or anyone else, for that matter) had seen DeOrr, his latest revelations would make no sense. The bottom line is that no one saw DeOrr and that is why Bowerman thinks he was never there. “Not only am I not believing he was ever there, but I’m believing that we have a homicide.” Sheriff Bowerman, July 6, 2016.

 

[desert-blue]

I believe the reason why everyone keeps changing their minds on what happened is 1st, because of bad reporting. Then Klein comes along, and he has the nerve to (lie and) express his own opinions as fact. Everyone is believing he has some kind of authority, and exclusive information, which he doesn't. Pretty soon, everything has gotten way out of hand because everyone is believing things that have not even been said by anyone who is said to have said it, nor by anyone who was there.

If I had known about this vote, I guess I would be the one who just has to be different. I am 50/50 on whether DeOrr is alive. I really believe the parents do not know what happened, nor Ggpa, probably not Isaac- not 100% sure on him. Nor the rest of the family, either.

I think it's very easy for a pedo to lay in wait for an opportunity, knowing that with patience there will be more than a few opportunities on a camping trip. I imagine for someone who really wants a kid, esp a pedo, that camping out in the "wilderness" in fact, would be a great, if not, a perfect opportunity.

The day they left to go camping, July 9th, 2015, when it was time to go, Isaac was not home for so long that they almost left without him. I really can visualize Isaac running around to different friends' houses that day. Out of excitement, and for something to say, I can almost hear him telling everyone, "Oh yeah, I am going camping with Bob today, he's bringing some family, I am kinda stressed because I don't know them, they got a kid their taking...etc." No one knows really who the pedos are until something bad happens, or it would never happen. And there's always people around youngsters who no one really knows. Everyone would hear or overhear Isaac, too. It'd just take one.

I believe that if DeOrr died it was at the campground, and not through any knowledge of Ggpa, Jessica, or Vernal. Probably not Isaac either, but I just don't know because quite often, it's the odd friend who was sleeping on the couch that did it...(for those that disappear from their bed at home)...I don't know, I'm maybe 80/20 that it's not Isaac...

I have a question I am dying to ask but I am not sure how or where I go about asking a new question. That's what I am here looking for tonight. Any suggestions?

Somehow I don't think Isaac was running around to all his friends' houses telling them he was going camping with a child. I highly doubt he even knew DeOrr was going on the trip. (Did Isaac even know that he himself was going?)

As far as "poor reporting," Jessica and Vernal had the press at their beck and call. The public was dying to find out the details and everyone was begging for more information. Jessica and Vernal provided the public with absolutely zilch, zero, nada. When they had the opportunity to clear things up and let the pubic know exactly what happened, they chose to ramble on about helicopters and stupid "rumors" that I'm pretty sure they made up themselves, just so they'd have something other than their missing son to talk about. You can't blame it on poor reporting. Jessica and Vernal could have been on the evening news every single night if they had wanted to. The public fell in love with their son and was willing to do anything to help find him. Jessica and Vernal weren't interested. Do you not remember the interview where Jessica just sat with her head down looking at the floor and didn't say one word?

My thoughts, my opinions.

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

Bowerman has said himself that he does not believe DeOrr was ever at the campground. If he believed the clerk (or anyone else, for that matter) had seen DeOrr, his latest revelations would make no sense. The bottom line is that no one saw DeOrr and that is why Bowerman thinks he was never there. “Not only am I not believing he was ever there, but I’m believing that we have a homicide.” Sheriff Bowerman, July 6, 2016.

Yes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[neesaki]

I believe the reason why everyone keeps changing their minds on what happened is 1st, because of bad reporting. Then Klein comes along, and he has the nerve to (lie and) express his own opinions as fact. Everyone is believing he has some kind of authority, and exclusive information, which he doesn't. Pretty soon, everything has gotten way out of hand because everyone is believing things that have not even been said by anyone who is said to have said it, nor by anyone who was there.

If I had known about this vote, I guess I would be the one who just has to be different. I am 50/50 on whether DeOrr is alive. I really believe the parents do not know what happened, nor Ggpa, probably not Isaac- not 100% sure on him. Nor the rest of the family, either.

I think it's very easy for a pedo to lay in wait for an opportunity, knowing that with patience there will be more than a few opportunities on a camping trip. I imagine for someone who really wants a kid, esp a pedo, that camping out in the "wilderness" in fact, would be a great, if not, a perfect opportunity.

The day they left to go camping, July 9th, 2015, when it was time to go, Isaac was not home for so long that they almost left without him. I really can visualize Isaac running around to different friends' houses that day. Out of excitement, and for something to say, I can almost hear him telling everyone, "Oh yeah, I am going camping with Bob today, he's bringing some family, I am kinda stressed because I don't know them, they got a kid their taking...etc." No one knows really who the pedos are until something bad happens, or it would never happen. And there's always people around youngsters who no one really knows. Everyone would hear or overhear Isaac, too. It'd just take one.

I believe that if DeOrr died it was at the campground, and not through any knowledge of Ggpa, Jessica, or Vernal. Probably not Isaac either, but I just don't know because quite often, it's the odd friend who was sleeping on the couch that did it...(for those that disappear from their bed at home)...I don't know, I'm maybe 80/20 that it's not Isaac...

I have a question I am dying to ask but I am not sure how or where I go about asking a new question. That's what I am here looking for tonight. Any suggestions?

Please do ask your question, though whether it can be answered is up for grabs.

I have a question or two as well.

1) You accuse Klein of lying, what do you base this on?
2) Why do you say everyone believes he has authority? All of us here are fully aware he is a PI, he is not LE.
3) How do you know he didn't discover information that hadn't been discovered before. Not to mention, he turned over all information to LE. So I guess in that way, it's not "exclusive" since LE knows it as well.
4) Why would you visualize IR running around to his friends houses like some excited child just because he's going camping ? And if this did happen it would have been discovered at some point by LE. What reason would he have to withhold this information that could help to establish he had been invited on a pre-planned trip, versus a spur of the moment one.

Regarding the pedo theory, it admittedly has been one on my list. I'm one of the few here that still believe it to be a possibility. But I don't know who was involved, whether one, two, or all four adults involved. If , and a big IF, I believe it's possible that little Deorr was passed off to someone. And it would have been for cash, untraceable cash. Also possible, as a result of whatever was going on, Deorr died as a result. I won't go any further than that because it's all too evil. I've always wondered why TBC said that GGP and IR had business in Leadore. What kind of business? And is that a rumor or fact? I don't remember LE or Klein ever addressing it so probably rumor.

I have been following the Kayla Gomez case and she was taken by a relative , her remains were just found in a well. Another reason why I can't completely let the pedo theory go, there's too many of those worthless out there. The difference here though, Kayla's parent's weren't involved. In Deorr's case, regardless of what happened to him, I believe the parents were involved and GGP knows or possibly was also involved. Why?

1)They've only halfheartedly tried to find him, if even that.
2) According to LE and the FBI, they've been untruthful since the beginning.
3) They didn't want a national hotline
4) They either didn't know their own baby's eye color or they mistakenly (or purposely?) gave the wrong eye color for his missing poster, and didn't correct it for months.
5) They refused the offer of a 20k reward, vs. in Kayla's case there was a 60k reward offered.
6) Why did GGP say "what's done is done" ?
7) Why did GGP ask if they were going to have a funeral?

I'm sure I could go on but am momentarily out of time, but anyone who has is so inclined please feel free to add to the list.

 

[Lilibet]

Objection your honor, hearsay. Sustained.

I believe Vernal went back to the store and tried to use his quick witted charm on the clerk to "remind" her that he and the child where there earlier. We heard Vernal saying the clerk remembered them, not so much Bowerman though. You and your co-council should be aware that we have LE and Klein (whom you managed to disparage 8 words into your first post, congrats a new record!) saying they have NO PROOF that Deorr ever was alive at the campsite. I see you also are of the blame Issac school of thought, he might be shady but how that silver tongued charmer is supposed to have had time to molest, kill, and hide a toddler behind the backs of 3 adults with only his bare hands and rugged good looks at his disposal is a mystery to me. And oh yeah he only had less than 1 hour to do ALL of this.

Brilliant! Clever writing that cuts to the chase. Have you encountered DexterMorgan here on WS. You both have a similar way of thinking and getting to the point. I'm not sure if any thread could handle both of you.

 

[Deleted member 278]

Plus where is all his stuff? I mean when we went camping with our boys at that ages we took a lot of stuff still do even for one or two nights? I mean diapers, or undies, then you have food, blankets, not just a few toys a lot of toys, etc. Then clothes and sleeping attire. To my knowledge they had one diaper IIRC, that was supposed to last two or three days. Where were his clothes? Even a spontaneous trip would have brought more diapers, nothing makes sense. Plus they claim to have brought dogs, nothing was mentioned until way later, again was there dog food, there was apparently fishing tackle and poles. Seems awfully suspicious that there is very little kids items but food, fishing gear etc to give an appearance.

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from Klein's 7/26 FB Q&A:

"No - you are not correct - she did pack a small bag with clothes and child care products"

 

[koios]

Is it possible that whatever critical event happened to the child may have happened after the child was noticed to be missing?

That interesting question actually came up (in different words) in an interview with LE last year, forgot which interview, I'll try to find it.
It's one of several points think a real square-one review should go back to and reexamine, just MOO.

 

[Sillybilly]

For those interested in discussing the clerk at the store, here is an excerpt from Tricia's radio show with Sheriff Bowerman:


from:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12319129#post12319129

SB: Well, initially um the store salesperson didn’t remember uh the encounter. When the father uh… I call him Vernal instead of Deorr, it’s Vernal Deorr Kunz…when Vernal and his wife came back to the store several days later then the salesperson said, “Oh, yeah, I remember you!”

02:45
SB: Now I’m not sure…I don’t recall her saying specifically that she remembered the child. She remembered them talking about their child, and they bought some candy and some other items, and we have a dated and time-stamped receipt, so we know they were in the store. And someone while they were fueling up said they thought they saw a child in the back seat, but that hasn’t been ever positively stated that there was a child there, but ya’ know at this point, I’m believing the family!

03:18
TG: Well, and the thing is, a busy day like that camping, nobody’s going to think, I better remember who’s in the store. It just doesn’t work like that.

03:26
SB: Yeah, exactly. It’s not uncommon. It’s a small community, and uh the salesclerk said she was really busy, and she was having difficulty remembering them being in the store, but when she saw them, she said, Oh, I remember talking to you.

 

[desert-blue]

For those interested in discussing the clerk at the store, here is an excerpt from Tricia's radio show with Sheriff Bowerman:


from:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12319129#post12319129

Let's keep in mind that this interview took place in October of last year, long before the sheriff named them suspects. He was apparently playing along with their story(ies) back then.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

from Klein's 7/26 FB Q&A:

"No - you are not correct - she did pack a small bag with clothes and child care products"

I assume: a c-l-u-t-c-h for little Deorr's 1,5 things and maybe a cosmetic case for her own nail- and hair-products 10times larger ... NOT funny if LE didn't
prove these many oddities immediately because they thought of honest parents/adults and a missing little child in danger.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Where is the one-and-only car with DNA of little Deorr??? I think there has to be a car, thoroughly washed/sold/exported/scrapped = disappeared for a long time now and never seen by LE. The relatives/friends may have helped to disappear the car, have an idea now after the dramatic event but say nothing. IMO MOO