ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #3

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I think LE has filled them in on some other possible scenarios and they are trusting LE's opinion in that regard.

This is all just my opinion, mind you.

Who knows and makes me wonder if the amount of people they had searching for Deorr caused more harm than good. I read somewhere it was around 300? With so many people I wonder how the dogs handled it? (scents, etc)
 
Respectfully, I think you are missing my point. This isn't about what the media and internet thinks. This is about finding a 2 year old who is missing. Going to national media, putting your child's face out there, asking people to give tips, etc can never be counterproductive.

I agree. People seeing/reading info in the media has helped find missing people. Just this week, around where I live, an elderly man with dementia "escaped" from a nursing home. 3 days later, someone 50 miles away saw him wandering around and recognized him from the media. Nobody knows how he got that far away as he has health issues and a bad leg, but the police were called, he was brought to the hospital, and he is safe now. That is just one example.
 
The parents have said they think Deorr was abducted, the media is offering to have them on their shows, there is no reason for them to not take the opportunity. Besides, most of the interview offers probably came in during the beginning of the case, so even if they no longer believe he was abducted, that's no excuse for why they didn't do the interviews.

No excuse? They're in the middle of nowhere Idaho. They have cooperated fully by all accounts. Are we assuming the non-local media is going to fly into Boise or SLC and grab the puddle-jumper to IF, then drive to the middle of nowhere for an interview, or are the parents expected to leave their campsite, where they likely feel closest to their boy, to do interviews that LE may have suggested are unnecessary as creeks and mountain lions don't get their news from ABC?

We don't know everything. WE don't have to.

Eta: I don't know what is going on more than anyone else here...very likely less, and idk what LE has said to whom, the above is just hypothetical.
 
I have been following along this case but haven't posted yet, because there just isn't much to "legally" talk ABOUT. But here are the thoughts I've had as I've read along, if anyone has any interest in reading the perspective of another sleuther. :-)

1) That was a lame interview (interview of the parents). The interviewer didn't do a very good job of following up with pertinent questions when an answer left ambiguity to a part of the situation. And I don't mean that the answers were purposely misleading -- I just mean that most interviewers are better at asking questions that get to the important points, steering the interview as it gets off on a tangent, etc.

For me, the most pertinent information would be: EXACTLY WHERE was the child last seen? WHEN and WHERE did EACH PERSON present last see the child? If there was a miscommunication among the parties as to who was watching the child, this information is VERY relevant and I would think that all parties involved -- parents, interviewer, LE, etc. -- would want correct details given so that search time and speculation aren't wasted by being off in the wrong direction (both in physically searching the area, and in brainstorming where Little DeOrr might have gone). Why was this interview even done, if not to put out helpful information? If LE considers stranger abduction to be even a remote possibility, then letting the public know the exact details of location and timing would surely be relevant.

2) I do think that the timeline could be off significantly. Even in the best of scenarios, calculating and guessing at time passed is hard to do. A person could easily think that five minutes had elapsed, when in actuality it was fifteen or twenty. I don't know how many times I've looked at the clock and been amazed at the amount of time that had passed in various situations. And they had to calculate several different time spans -- the time the parents were off exploring, the time it took for them to search initially, etc. I don't think there is any way anyone (even the people there living the experience) can be sure of how long Little DeOrr was out of adult eyesight before anyone realized it, or (probably) exactly how long they searched for him. Unless someone specifically looked at their watch the instant they realized he was missing, then looked again when they stopped and called 911, that timing is just a guess. And I haven't heard anything reported to indicate that they specifically marked the time of any of the events of the day -- what time they arrived at the campsite, when they first left to explore, when they came back and realized he was missing, or when they started and ended their initial search. When you add up the different times that had to be guessed at and added up, I would not be surprised if the timeline could be off an hour or more.

3) I am completely baffled by the lack of information released in this case. I have seen many criminal cases where very little information was released, but it seems unusual in a case where a child wanders off, for there be to such an absence of information disseminated through the media. I have taken to reading the comments (and replies to the comments) on the local media reports, to try to glean ANY useful information.

I think that's just about all I can say. :-/
 
No excuse? They're in the middle of nowhere Idaho. They have cooperated fully by all accounts. Are we assuming the non-local media is going to fly into Boise or SLC and grab the puddle-jumper to IF, then drive to the middle of nowhere for an interview, or are the parents expected to leave their campsite, where they likely feel closest to their boy, to do interviews that LE may have suggested are unnecessary as creeks and mountain lions don't get their news from ABC?

We don't know everything. WE don't have to.

If national media outlets have offered to interview them, they will make arrangements for the interview. The parents have said their child was abducted, so I am not sure what creeks and mountain lions have to do with that, as they don't think they are the cause of Deorr's disappearance.
 
If national media outlets have offered to interview them, they will make arrangements for the interview. The parents have said their child was abducted, so I am not sure what creeks and mountain lions have to do with that, as they don't think they are the cause of Deorr's disappearance.

That's what they thought initially. We don't know that's what they think now.

I think he fell in the creek, personally.
 
Or, at least they did. Who knows what they think now?

The national media requests likely came in when Deorr first went missing, in the first week, and that was when they apparently thought he was abducted.
 
Who knows and makes me wonder if the amount of people they had searching for Deorr caused more harm than good. I read somewhere it was around 300? With so many people I wonder how the dogs handled it? (scents, etc)

I think it was likely a bad choice to have that many in so early in the investigation. Any scents, footprints, hairs, etc. would have been contaminated or completely lost with that many people wandering around.

I'm considering what I would do if my child was missing, and had only been missing for a few minutes at the most. If they had a favorite blanket, toy, etc, I would probably grab it. That way they would have a comforting object there in case they were scared when I found them. I'm wondering if Mom grabbed his blanket and walked around while they initially looked?

If so, I assume the tracking dogs work the same as hunting dogs in how they follow a trail. A good hunting dog will follow the scent. Our best dogs will catch a rabbit trail, then they'll do a little yip, then they will circle around. I assume it's them figuring which way the rabbit went. They will follow the scent and as they get closer, their barks and yips change in both sounds and frequency. If Mom had walked around the camp with his blanket the entire time while looking, I could see why the dogs would stay in camp. The strongest and most recent scent would be concentrated around camp. Again, assuming they are similar to hunting dogs, a good dog won't backtrack on a scent.
 
After reading all the comments here I am kind of curious. Are the parents still up there camping? I thought they had returned home.

I am kind of surprised they are being left alone if they are there. I would expect pictures to be making their way around the internet because I would think the area would now be open and most LE gone.
 
Eeeeeesh! This is why I don't camp!
This video makes me giggle. Big ole cat is chased up a tree by a little coyote. Clearly her den was nearby. What I would give to witness this! On any given day there are more than 5,000 people camping in Yosemite (can be more than 8,000). Yes, that's daily. The area is home to some very habituated animals sadly but we don't hear about then dragging children off, and these critters in that park are not scared of people like the ones in mid rural areas.
Camping is not for everyone and that is OK. But i do think that those that don't camp or have never campers in an area like this may have a bit of a TV version of what it's like. I average 3 weeks a year camping, but sometimes closer to 5. While I have gotten to see lots of wildlife, some right next to my tent (yeah, it is exciting to wake up and find bear tracks all the way around your tent) I have also come to learn that I am not what they want for dinner, nor are the kids. Seeing large predators also does not happen on a regular basis, especially out in the more rural areas like where he went missing. Bison have big the biggest concern we have ever run into cuz they are not something you want to startle and it is very easy to walk around a corner or through the trees and have them be right there. I worry way more about then than American bears, wolves, cougars or grizzlies.
Because of both the amount of time I spend in the wilderness (in primitive camps, park campgrounds and backpacking) and on the SAR side, I have spent a whole lot of time educating myself, taking classes and talking to wildlife biologists to know as much as possible in order to keep myself, my family and my searchers safe.
By the same token, while I feel very comfortable with my knowledge of Western States animals, I would not go out on the East coast without consulting someone as I know their bears there are much different than ours. Same goes for Alaska.
I still highly doubt that an animal took him from camp while the family was right there. But, I would also hope that they would have checked for tracks just to help rule it out. They found the den which is not easy to do. I am guessing that at least one in the pack is collared and that is how. If that is the case then they can also tell where it/they have been. Searchers should have been looking for signs as they were going to avoid destroying any tracks of any sort, people or animal.
 
Does anyone have any insight as to how many major cases this small-town sheriff's office handles per year? I really wonder if they have the experience to handle this case. Maybe they do, I just don't know. Their web site lists only 1 sheriff and 10 deputies, including just 1 investigator. Some of them are part-time, reserve, and/or in charge of things like driver's licenses.
http://lemhicountyidaho.org/Sheriffs Office.htm
 
After reading all the comments here I am kind of curious. Are the parents still up there camping? I thought they had returned home.

I am kind of surprised they are being left alone if they are there. I would expect pictures to be making their way around the internet because I would think the area would now be open and most LE gone.

Why would you expect pictures? I can't see MSM photojournalists going on assignment to a campground to take sneaky pictures of parents of a missing child (who aren't considered suspects/POI). That's something that the paparazzi would do a celebrity.
 
After reading all the comments here I am kind of curious. Are the parents still up there camping? I thought they had returned home.

I am kind of surprised they are being left alone if they are there. I would expect pictures to be making their way around the internet because I would think the area would now be open and most LE gone.

It's really a pain to get there. I mean, idk if that impacts anything really, but you have to fly into either Boise or SLC then either fly into Idaho Falls or Pocatello, in this case Idaho Falls likelier, then drive. Not a lot of cell coverage, possibly expensive trip for possibly not much information?
 
Does anyone have any insight as to how many major cases this small-town sheriff's office handles per year? I really wonder if they have the experience to handle this case. Maybe they do, I just don't know. Their web site lists only 1 sheriff and 10 deputies, including just 1 investigator. Some of them are part-time, reserve, and/or in charge of things like driver's licenses.
http://lemhicountyidaho.org/Sheriffs Office.htm
Most towns never have a child going missing like this, so I don't think most are truly ready to handle it, through absolutely no fault of their own.
 
Does anyone have any insight as to how many major cases this small-town sheriff's office handles per year? I really wonder if they have the experience to handle this case. Maybe they do, I just don't know. Their web site lists only 1 sheriff and 10 deputies, including just 1 investigator. Some of them are part-time, reserve, and/or in charge of things like driver's licenses.
http://lemhicountyidaho.org/Sheriffs Office.htm

Not a whole lot. City-data has all of IF listed as "average crime rate."
Low population.
 
Or, at least they did. Who knows what they think now?

That's what they thought initially. We don't know that's what they think now.

I think he fell in the creek, personally.

They still believe the child has been abducted. I just saw the mom posting on FB explaining why she is online and she stated is to get Deorr's face out there in the scenario someone abducted him.
 
MOO I think LE has thrown everything they have into his search.

Several agencies — including the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office, Salmon Search and Rescue, Bonneville County Sheriff's Office and Idaho Fish and Game — have spent over a week searching for the boy.

"Numerous resources, including helicopters with FLIR (forward looking infrared radiometer), divers, side scan sonar, scent dogs, cadaver dogs, horses, ATVs, and over 300 people, were used," Bowerman said, "with absolutely no sign of the victim.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=35592900
FYI a Utah news outlet.:happydance:
 
MOO I think LE has thrown everything they have into his search.

Several agencies — including the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office, Salmon Search and Rescue, Bonneville County Sheriff's Office and Idaho Fish and Game — have spent over a week searching for the boy.

"Numerous resources, including helicopters with FLIR (forward looking infrared radiometer), divers, side scan sonar, scent dogs, cadaver dogs, horses, ATVs, and over 300 people, were used," Bowerman said, "with absolutely no sign of the victim.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=35592900
FYI a Utah news outlet.:happydance:
I think that is absolutely true.
 
~~I don't know much about emotional trauma (was just reading about it, though). I can imagine this family is VERY traumatized and may be in some "shut down" mode.....kind of isolating...

http://www.helpguide.org/articles/ptsd-trauma/emotional-and-psychological-trauma.htm#signs


The mom looked like that already in the interview they gave (when was it?) two weeks ago. Like the life had been drained out of her. Dad was the opposite, trying to solve this mystery, he was like in overdrive, almost frantic, barely able to stop talking. Maybe he has now arrived where his wife is - depleted, defeated, exhausted. The uncertainty they are living in every day must be like grieving in slow motion.
 
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