ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[nervous_nellie]

Why was DeOrr filthy? Pretty strong word.. lady in store must see camping kids all the time.. Filthy..hmmm

This has bothered me since the first time that I heard it. Filthy and Bawling...and even though JM/DK say that this was them but @ 1pm/13:00 they make no mention of why he was "Filthy and Bawling". The only reason I think it is odd is because it was the last time they would have been somewhere with him and it seems like a normal thing to mention would be why the boy was upset... I understand they were camping and of course, the kid would get filthy and that isn't suspicious nor is a kid bawling but, if that kid goes missing immediately after that and it isnt mentioned ... I think that is odd. moo

 

[ILOKAL]

Two different sightings.

One at Walmart (ruled out)

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/bonneville-co-sheriff-receives-possible-lead-on-missing-child/

Another at a convenience store the family allegedly visited earlier that day before the toddler's disapperance. The store clerk claimed she saw a man in a black truck with a filthy boy, buying candy for him at 6:00pm, DeOrr's father claimed it was him but earlier that day and said the clerk has the time mixed up. We do not know if she recognized later on the man as Deorr's father. She declined to be interviewed by the media twice but she has been cooperating with the police.

The father's timeline would be the most accurate, IMO, since he knows what time they left and arrived back. The clerk, OTOH, waits on lots of people. In trying to recall what time the Kunz's came in, she may have recalled it was just before or just after her meal break. She may be recalling just having had dinner, when in fact she had just had lunch. Just a thought!

 

[Dee10]

The father's timeline would be the most accurate, IMO, since he knows what time they left and arrived back. The clerk, OTOH, waits on lots of people. In trying to recall what time the Kunz's came in, she may have recalled it was just before or just after her meal break. She may be recalling just having had dinner, when in fact she had just had lunch. Just a thought!

I believe the store's cash register roll will have all the items they purchased along with the date & time for that particular purchase, on the machine roll.

 

[flourish]

I believe the store's cash register roll will have all the items they purchased along with the date & time for that particular purchase, on the machine roll.

Assuming it's all done with a modern register and ...what-not. Not accusing anyone of anything, but the little store down my street doesn't have itemized receipts, so you could pay cash for something and it will only be the clerk and any video surveillance and other customers that would tell the tale, not the register.

But hey have we heard from any other customers from that day?

I have no idea the type of register which the store in question uses. I am completely speculating.

Eta: and the sketchy little store by my work doesn't even use their register sometimes. ?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Dad stated, "He was right with us." 1:42 mark on video. Important to note even if we can't discuss it.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

The father's timeline would be the most accurate, IMO, since he knows what time they left and arrived back. The clerk, OTOH, waits on lots of people. In trying to recall what time the Kunz's came in, she may have recalled it was just before or just after her meal break. She may be recalling just having had dinner, when in fact she had just had lunch. Just a thought!

I don't know if that is true for his to be the most accurate. I guess it depends on if one believes everything he says. I believe the clerk in this case because she was quite specific about the other details surrounding the sighting.

 

[fishing_idaho]

Thank you for your local perspective. What is your experience with mountain lions in the area? Do you think the baby might have been taken by a big cat?

Oh, and :welcome: to WS.

It would really surprise me if a cougar got him. I've worked natural resource jobs for the past 12 years, so I've been all over Lemhi County. In that time I've personally only seen one, and it was from a distance. There's a reason they are hunted with dogs. They typically shy away from human contact and are very stealthy. They certainly are in that area though. Personally, I think they would have at least found some sign of the presence of one such as tracks with all the dogs and local volunteers that were helping with the search (especially if the attack occurred near the campground). I can't say that it would never happen, but it would shock me, and to my knowledge it would be the first cougar attack on a human in this area that I've ever heard of. The other thing I should mention (and I've seen it mentioned in the previous threads but people seem to forget about it) is the helicopter they brought that used IR. The SAR was saying that that thing was able to see every squirrel or fawn in the area, so I'm assuming they would have also seen a cougar that was out, although if it was in a rock den then it would have avoided detection. In mind mind, it also ruled out the DeOrr was anywhere other then under rocks or some other structure (assuming he was alive during the initial search).

At first I was convinced they would find him in the creek or reservoir, but after talking to some guys that were helping out, they scoured that creek. It's a small creek that is narrow and shallow with tons of debris, so it's not a creek that would flush a body very far down. It is also very clear and doesn't have huge holes or anything like that. Since they said they were removing the debris and focusing on those areas that could conceal a body, I just don't think he is in the creek anywhere near the campground. Also, our local search and rescue usually deals water rescue. That is one thing that do well and often. I trust that if they say they couldn't find him then he's not there (could be wrong, but I know they tried their hardest for many days).

 

[1&2&3]

I believe the store's cash register roll will have all the items they purchased along with the date & time for that particular purchase, on the machine roll.

Exactly. In the beginning of this case, the parents told they went back to the store to get Deorr a candy bar.

Once we learned of this long bumpy ride, I particularly, question that statement. In fact in one of my early posts on this case, I made a remark about the 2 year old controlling the parents - meaning who would make that drive for a candy bar!! Really??

The parents statement has since changed to "things", they never said WHAT items they purchased. (I think that is what they called it).

 

[IDTater]

I thought the reporter did a very poor job. He didn't ask important questions and let Deorr basically run the interview.

East Idaho News is a brand new, online news organization. Being the only news organization to get a sit down interview with the family was probably a big break. I wonder if that played a role in the way the interview went. Interesting that EIN was the organization that the parents chose to talk to and not a big network TV affiliate.

It seems like EIN, Nate Eaton specifically, are the only ones really pounding the ground to get more info. He went back to IR's residence on more than one occasion to get an interview. They also got the interview with the retired F&G investigator and although that didn't yield any information specific to the case, it keeps the story alive.

 

[WhatsupAZ]

The father's timeline would be the most accurate, IMO, since he knows what time they left and arrived back. The clerk, OTOH, waits on lots of people. In trying to recall what time the Kunz's came in, she may have recalled it was just before or just after her meal break. She may be recalling just having had dinner, when in fact she had just had lunch. Just a thought!

https://www.google.com/search?q=sta...Zum6aqBxwIViVs-Ch2T9AW8#imgrc=hmHRMFhUDeMD5M:

This is the store that we are talking about.... how many people do you think she actually waited on that afternoon? Anybody from out of town would have stuck out in her mind.

 

[rkf]

I want to believe LE showed at least a picture of IR to the store clerk.

As I said before, IR has a criminal history yes but he also seems to have some sort of cognitive impairment and talks like a child. At least that's my impression. The way he answered to the reporter seems like he was afraid, particularly when he asked the journalist if he spoke to grandpa "yet" (interesting that this is the only part during the short exchange that he seems to become suddenly "aware"). He is almost afraid to say something that could implicate someone or could cause problems. As a matter of fact he uses the term "as far as I know" which is a phrase you would use within this context if you were not present when the toddler went missing.

Or if you were trying to distance yourself from a situation. He was smart enough to avoid punishment for the vast majority of the crimes for which he has been arrested. I think he's just stoned.

 

[fishing_idaho]

so probably not a great place to take your two year old? unless they didn't know beforehand that the terrain would be so rough.
i certainly wouldn't take a little kid on that kind of ride..it's no wonder that if DeOrr was upset at the store.. if he was dirty...he may have had a chocoloate bar on the way there, become fussy (because of the ride + the sugar), and wanted more chocolate so the parents got him another one instead of some food that would stabilize his mood/blood sugar? I'm still a little confused on the store part.

The clothing choice (pajama pants) may have been because he got filthy eating the chocolate.

Maybe, but I wouldn't really read too much into the decision to camp there. Even though the road is rough, it doesn't take long to get there, and it really is a pretty area (although personally I would have stayed closer to the reservoir instead of down below). Plenty of people here in Salmon camp in areas with their kids that are much tougher to get to. I have no clue what this family's preferences were but I'd rather go out of my way to camp in a less crowded area then go to more accessible and busy campground. We are spoiled in Idaho. There is so much federal land and if you want, you can camp in near isolation every time you go out.

I also know that the Idaho Falls crowd seems to frequently camp in the Leadore area from the Big Eighmile drainage (~10 miles Northwest) to the Meadow Lake campground (on top of Gilmore Summit to the Southeast). Locals here know that if you want to go camping in the summer then you should probably just avoid that area. I only mention that because it made sense to me that a family from Idaho Falls would be camping there.

 

[1&2&3]

I don't know if that is true for his to be the most accurate. I guess it depends on if one believes everything he says. I believe the clerk in this case because she was quite specific about the other details surrounding the sighting.

Do you think this 6:00 sighting was actually the father and Deorr?

If so, how did the father, DK, leave the campsite with the sheriff and others there beginning the search?

And where was little Deorr while the parents were being interviewed by the sheriff at the campsite?

This is not to be argumentative, just wanting to know how you see this happening.

 

[leep]

I just got done reading the section on media involvement in a resource guide for families of missing children on the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children website. It emphasizes the importance of media in missing children cases and recommends working with the media to get the missing child's name and information out. It also recommends creating "hooks," or new ways to keep the story fresh. Interesting stuff. I'm curious, especially with a person from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children coming to help, why almost none of these strategies are being employed in this particular case.

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/publications/PDF6A.pdf

Also, I know of two other relatively high profile missing children cases (Lonzie Barton and Perry Cohen and Austin Stephanos) where rewards are being offered for information. I haven't found any mention of rewards for information in this case. Anyone know of any rewards or fund-raising towards rewards that might be occurring?

Someone's probably already mention it but I believe there's two fundraising efforts which were started about the second week.

 

[rkf]

I think the sheriff was protecting the family friend because IR's got a few mental issues of his own. You can rest assured that his background was known within a few hours after LE showed up to look for that kid. Knowing the weird history surrounding the guys' past, the sheriff knew IR was going to take a pounding in the press, along with social media and the rest of it.

If G-grandpa and the parents vouched for him though, I can understand why LE was reluctant to "out" him and feed him up to the wolves. I have no doubt that IR was grilled extensively under some very bright lights. His on camera interview was bizarre and ridiculous and leaves one with the impression that he is rather nonchalant about the kid disappearing. He may just be a half-wit that is anti-social and sleeps naked. I'm surprised he didn't open up the door all the way and let the whole world see him standing there in his naked glory.

Who stays in bed and sleeps past 4 A.M. anyway ? That's the best time to write rambling posts on Websleuths while drinking Folgers Dark Roast coffee. It's like having your own private forum with no interruptions......... everyone should try it.

How could ggp and the parents vouch for him? The parents just met him that day. And apparently the ggp isn't sufficiently healthy, mentally or physically, to be a reliable witness.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Do you think this 6:00 sighting was actually the father and Deorr?

If so, how did the father, DK, leave the campsite with the sheriff and others there beginning the search?

And where was little Deorr while the parents were being interviewed by the sheriff at the campsite?

This is not to be argumentative, just wanting to know how you see this happening.

I have no idea. Did the clerk say she saw DK specifically or just recognized DeOrr and mentioned a black truck?

 

[bluesneakers]

I have no idea. Did the clerk say she saw DK specifically or just recognized DeOrr and mentioned a black truck?

I thought she just saw a kid, dad, and black truck, and it became an issue since DK drives a black truck. Easy to confuse or assume it was him because the details basically match up, but based on the time the clerk said he was there it was clearly not him.

 

[rkf]

I do find that omission intriguing. I also wondered when viewing the photos yesterday, why there are not four, but three chairs around the campfire - one double chair, and one single chair. http://www.ktvb.com/picture-gallery/news/local/2015/07/13/missing-toddler/30075461/

Maybe because the photos were taken days later of the Kunz' campsite near where the searches are happening? I don't think it's a photo of the original campsite, but I could be wrong.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I

Thanks! I know I've heard that there may be some fundraising but I haven't seen mention of a reward anywhere.

Any idea what the two fundraising efforts are supporting if not a reward?

Lost wages is one item. Food and water for searchers is another.

 

[persimmon]

What also seems a little odd to me is why IR would be grandpa's friend and not JM's or DK's. I'm just thinking about the age difference and how they would know one another. Also, if I had a 2-year-old that could walk I would not leave them behind while I went "exploring" without him. Maybe I'm just a worry-wart, but I personally wouldn't leave them behind with an unstable grandfather and a strange man that I didn't even know.

Well, I'm going to sum up this case right now: TOO MANY QUESTIONS AND NOT ENOUGH ANSWERS! This case is driving me bonkers!

I agree and DeOrr Sr. desribes DeOrr as a child who sticks to his parents. Considering that fact, I find the confusion over who was watching him less plausible. I would think DeOrr would have cried or made an attempt to leave with them.