ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[giagreen]

4 minutes according to some statments. Possibly as long as 10-15 minutes. That would be a very quick planning and execution period. Which is why I personally cannot get on board with the abduction by Stanger theory.

The parents said 10min in their interview. I don't think it was as short as 4 min

 

[babyback]

4 minutes according to some statments. Possibly as long as 10-15 minutes. That would be a very quick planning and execution period. Which is why I personally cannot get on board with the abduction by Stanger theory.

I've read on the threads that the family found one location to set up the camp site, then moved to another location. Is this only rumor, or was it proven that not to be so.

I ask because if they had told someone back home where they would be camping, then I could understand a quick already planned out abduction. However if they moved to another camp site, not so much.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I've read on the threads that the family found one location to set up the camp site, then moved to another location. Is this only rumor, or was it proven that not to be so.

I ask because if they had told someone back home where they would be camping, then I could understand a quick already planned out abduction. However if they moved to another camp site, not so much.

It was a rumor and a theory -- there's no evidence that they moved camp, and they haven't said that they did.

 

[Trident]

Sorry but the PI works for the family; nothing he says is objective information or unbiased insight. I wouldn't lend any credence to this, honestly

I agree with you but it is very interesting reading between the lines.

:cow:

 

[lauriej]

Sorry but the PI works for the family; nothing he says is objective information or unbiased insight. I wouldn't lend any credence to this, honestly

--agree.

--not only does he work for them, in the P.I. interview, he states that he knows Deorr Sr personally "from my association w/ him from before in Montpellier, I can't imagine him doing anything like that....."

[video=youtube;-78P5ayOlRc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-78P5ayOlRc[/video]

 

[wondering25]

The parents said 10min in their interview. I don't think it was as short as 4 min

Why dont you believe the mother when she said in the 911 call it was an hour? I believe no one saw him for an hour..only later.. when everyone had time to "reflect" and think about how it "sounds" did it change to 10 mins, imo. Mother calls 911 says baby has been missing for an hour.. I believe her.. why put words in her mouth? JMO

 

[desert-blue]

Why dont you believe the mother when she said in the 911 call it was an hour? I believe no one saw him for an hour..only later.. when everyone had time to "reflect" and think about how it "sounds" did it change to 10 mins, imo. Mother calls 911 says baby has been missing for an hour.. I believe her.. why put words in her mouth? JMO

I assume part of that hour was spent looking for him? How long did they look for him before they called 911? I think that's the part that is unclear...

 

[Jules71]

Why dont you believe the mother when she said in the 911 call it was an hour? I believe no one saw him for an hour..only later.. when everyone had time to "reflect" and think about how it "sounds" did it change to 10 mins, imo. Mother calls 911 says baby has been missing for an hour.. I believe her.. why put words in her mouth? JMO

The reason people are doubting her is because it conflicts with what Deorr Sr said. Which account is correct? Or are they both incorrect?

Dad says it was close to 2. They went to explore 50 yards away and it was 10 minutes from the time he last saw Jr to the time he noticed him missing. Then they said they searched for about 20 minutes.

Mom says to 911 he had been missing for about an hour.

So was he missing for 30 minutes or an hour. Then you have Deorr's dad (who wasn't there) claiming a 4 minute window that he wasn't being watched.

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[Mickshawn]

How does it generally work with WHO runs the investigation? Is there like a "point person" who heads things up and committees under that person who all report back to the lead?

Now that this P.I. is involved, is this like a separate entity in of itself? Or do they all share info and work together for the common cause.

I just wonder if folks get territorial and don't work together...

 

[giagreen]

Why dont you believe the mother when she said in the 911 call it was an hour? I believe no one saw him for an hour..only later.. when everyone had time to "reflect" and think about how it "sounds" did it change to 10 mins, imo. Mother calls 911 says baby has been missing for an hour.. I believe her.. why put words in her mouth? JMO

No I beleive he was missing for an hour or so by the time they called. But I was referring to how long the parents where on their walk before realizing Deorr was missing. And I never put words in anyone's mouth. She said in the interview they were gone 10 min top.

 

[babyback]

So the Sheriff says that he is convinced that no abduction took place, yet he can't rule it out. My head spins...........

 

[carbuff]

4 minutes according to some statments. Possibly as long as 10-15 minutes. That would be a very quick planning and execution period. Which is why I personally cannot get on board with the abduction by Stanger theory.

But the kind of predator who would commit that kind of crime doesn't think the way a normal person does. At some level they're always looking at targets and escape routes. It wouldn't take that kind of person nearly as wrong to decide what to do.

 

[Elena]

So the Sheriff says that he is convinced that no abduction took place, yet he can't rule it out. My head spins...........

Because DeOrr is still missing, but their belief is not leaning towards an abduction.

 

[wondering25]

The reason people are doubting her is because it conflicts with what Deorr Sr said. Which account is correct? Or are they both incorrect?

Dad says it was close to 2. They went to explore 50 yards away and it was 10 minutes from the time he last saw Jr to the time he noticed him missing. Then they said they searched for about 20 minutes.


Mom says to 911 he had been missing for about an hour.

So was he missing for 30 minutes or an hour. Then you have Deorr's dad (who wasn't there) claiming a 4 minute window that he wasn't being watched.

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Dad said everything, imo. Mom barely spoke.. but she spoke loud and clear in the 911 call.. she said baby was missing for an hour.. In other words when they came back, realized baby wasnt there and then searched it was an hour. Time elapsed from the time deorr was seen last until 911 was called was one hour. Since grandpa didnt even KNOW he was supposed to be watching the baby ..how would he know the last time he saw him.. he thought baby went with parents. 1 hour since MOM saw Deorr.. 1 hour missing per MOM..

Several days later in interview it was changed to 10 minutes.. 1 hour..baby missing one hour.. 911 call to me is like jumping out of your car after an accident and saying oops i didnt see you.. just what the insurance company doesnt want you to say.. but it is a normal reaction... mom was acting normally and truthfully.. 1 hour.. JMO The ? is .. why was that changed in the interview?? JMO

 

[carbuff]

So the Sheriff says that he is convinced that no abduction took place, yet he can't rule it out. My head spins...........

The one is what he thinks. The other is what the evidence does or doesn't say. They aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

[Jules71]

Dad said everything, imo. Mom barely spoke.. but she spoke loud and clear in the 911 call.. she said baby was missing for an hour.. In other words when they came back, realized baby wasnt there and then searched it was an hour. Time elapsed from the time deorr was seen last until 911 was called was one hour. Since grandpa didnt even KNOW he was supposed to be watching the baby ..how would he know the last time he saw him.. he thought baby went with parents. 1 hour since MOM saw Deorr.. 1 hour missing per MOM..

Several days later in interview it was changed to 10 minutes.. 1 hour..baby missing one hour.. 911 call to me is like jumping out of your car after an accident and saying oops i didnt see you.. just what the insurance company doesnt want you to say.. but it is a normal reaction... mom was acting normally and truthfully.. 1 hour.. JMO The ? is .. why was that changed in the interview?? JMO

That makes sense. Maybe dad changed his story because he was worried about what people would think (either about exploring too long, or waiting too long to call 911).

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[rkf]

Sorry but the PI works for the family; nothing he says is objective information or unbiased insight. I wouldn't lend any credence to this, honestly

And he already said LE has not shared their investigation with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-78P5ayOlRc&feature=youtu.be

 

[rkf]

So, in looking at the map that was provided, this camp site wasn't as remote as I first thought. We have 172B, 172A and 172 running quite close to it. Makes me wonder how close someone on an ATV would need to get to see a child wandering around alone, quickly devise a plan to kidnap them, carry out that plan within the window of opportunity they had. Which doesn't seem like much time.

If the parents weren't more than 50 yards away from DeOrr, I think they would have heard an ATV.

 

[cobalt sky]

So, in looking at the map that was provided, this camp site wasn't as remote as I first thought. We have 172B, 172A and 172 running quite close to it. Makes me wonder how close someone on an ATV would need to get to see a child wandering around alone, quickly devise a plan to kidnap them, carry out that plan within the window of opportunity they had. Which doesn't seem like much time.

4 minutes according to some statments. Possibly as long as 10-15 minutes. That would be a very quick planning and execution period. Which is why I personally cannot get on board with the abduction by Stanger theory.

I agree, it's hard to imagine a scenario based on what we know that would allow for an abduction by stranger to have occurred. For a stranger to have abducted DeOrr, he would have had to have known DeOrr was there in the first place. If they arrived Thursday night, it's unlikely someone would have noticed DeOrr UNLESS they made a stop on the way into the campground that evening. Thus far, nothing of the sort has been reported. It is more likely that someone would have noticed him Friday playing around the campsite, or at the Stage Stop when they went into town. If they arrived Friday late morning as has also been suggested, that leaves even less time for someone to have spotted him.

Though campers can come and go anytime, in my experience Fri, Sat, & Sun seem to be the busier days. Abducting a child on a Friday afternoon in broad daylight adds a lot of risk of being seen either by someone camping with DeOrr, or by someone traveling in/out of the campground area. Which leads us to the number of people in the camping party. Not only would a stranger abductor have to have spotted and kept an eye on DeOrr, waiting for the right opportunity, he would have also had to keep an eye on the four adults that were there as well. If we believe the story that was told, GGP was there at the campsite, JM & DK were off exploring...they could have been anywhere; IR was either with GGP, which adds another set of eyes in the vicinity of DeOrr, or he was off fishing, off somewhere where again, the abductor would have had to know exactly where all of these people were in order to feel comfortable snatching the child without being seen or heard. The abductor would have also had to feel confident that nobody else was present that he wasn't aware of (another adult sleeping in the camper, for example), or that another vehicle of campers wouldn't be joining the group at any time. This would make for a very stealthy, gutsy, and ultimately LUCKY abductor imo. Not that it's impossible, just improbable imo.

From what we've been told, at least part of the camping party went into town and stopped at the State Stop. If we go off of the PI's story, there was a creepy old man staring at DeOrr. Did this occur INSIDE the Stage Stop, or OUTSIDE? Did DeOrr actually enter the store at any time? It is not unusual for people working at rural stores such as the Stage Stop to be familiar with any locals or regular travelers that come to the store, and to also take notice of travelers that they aren't familiar with. Seeing as LE would have likely spoken to any employees of the Stage Stop within the first 48 hours after his disappearance, I am confident that if they were at the Stage Stop at any time, someone would have remembered them. I am wondering, regarding the secrecy of the timeline, could it be that LE themselves aren't even sure of the correct timeline? Maybe there are inconsistencies among the campers and possible "witnesses"? I don't have nearly the experience of sleuthing cases that most here do, but I don't remember a case where after a month there still wasn't a basic timeline to work off of. IMO. :banghead:

 

[babyback]

The one is what he thinks. The other is what the evidence does or doesn't say. They aren't necessarily the same thing.

I totally understand this, however since we know nothing about what evidence was or was not found, and up until recently, we have heard that nothing was found, it's like he vanished. The toy trucks that he had with him, and his oversized boots have not been located.

So, how does one vanish a child without leaving any evidence? Anything........