ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[Jules71]

Remember the parent's interview when they were talking about leaving to explore. One parent mentioned 50, the other parent interjected 10. Maybe they were gone 50 minutes. Looked for 10 minutes, then called 911.

DEORR KUNZ, SR., FATHER: He was playing with grandpa. He was over -- he was getting ready for a nap. I want to say it was almost -- by that*

time, it was almost 2:00, and he usually takes his nap.*

We were just -- yes, we decided we were going to go a little exploring. He was going to be good with Grandpa by the campfire. We*

weren`t more than probably 50...

MITCHELL: Ten minutes.

KUNZ: ... 50 yards away and 10 minutes. By the time we -- I seen him to the point I figured out he was gone, and I come back up from the creek*

and I had actually seen -- there was some things down by the -- a little minnow that I thought he would just love.*

So when I come back up to get him, and I yelled over to Grandpa, Where is -- you know, where`s little Deorr? He immediately (INAUDIBLE) He says,*

I thought he came up to you, because it`s such a small area. That`s what a lot of people, they don`t understand, is they just assume, How could you*

let your kid out of your sight?*

This area is pretty well blocked in, and you can see -- you could -- there`s no way you couldn`t not see him, in what we thought. And in just*

in a split second, your whole world is upside down and vanished.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/15/ng.01.html

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[rkf]

How does it generally work with WHO runs the investigation? Is there like a "point person" who heads things up and committees under that person who all report back to the lead?

Now that this P.I. is involved, is this like a separate entity in of itself? Or do they all share info and work together for the common cause.

I just wonder if folks get territorial and don't work together...

LE has no reason to share information with the PI. Vilt has already insulted them by criticizing them for not following up leads, one of which may have come in that day to Vilt's new tip line (it wasn't clear how Vilt knew about the tip and that it wasn't followed up.) Also, if there should ever be a criminal prosecution, LE wouldn't want to just give the defendants all the information that they've collected so that they can take action to counter it before an arrest is even made. JMO

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

How does it generally work with WHO runs the investigation? Is there like a "point person" who heads things up and committees under that person who all report back to the lead?

Now that this P.I. is involved, is this like a separate entity in of itself? Or do they all share info and work together for the common cause.

I just wonder if folks get territorial and don't work together...

The impression I get is that there is very little cooperation or communication all round. Very frustrating when there is a two year old missing.

Sheriff Bowerman AFAIK hasn't even been on camera in this case? Never mind doing a PC or interview with media. EIN earlier in the case were exchanging emails for example.

The PI has said he has talked to deputies/others but his calls to the Sheriffs office have gone unanswered.

And yet both parties have praised each other at different times.

None of this can be good for the goal of finding a two year old IMO.

 

[Dee10]

And he already said LE has not shared their investigation with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-78P5ayOlRc&feature=youtu.be

and “I've called the department several times and they've never returned my call," said Vilt.

http://m.localnews8.com/news/private-detective-joins-search-for-missing-toddler/34678944

 

[rkf]

The impression I get is that there is very little cooperation or communication all round. Very frustrating when there is a two year old missing.

Sheriff Bowerman AFAIK hasn't even been on camera in this case? Never mind doing a PC or interview with media. EIN earlier in the case were exchanging emails for example.

The PI has said he has talked to deputies/others but his calls to the Sheriffs office have gone unanswered.

And yet both parties have praised each other at different times.

None of this can be good for the goal of finding a two year old IMO.

The sheriff/LE praised Vilt? Do you have a link for that? I missed it. TIA

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

@rkf

Sorry, I meant LE and parents. PI Vilt as only just publicly come into this case.

 

[Annie1004]

(modsnip)

This is an active investigation and typical LE speak until there is a definitive answer of what happened to this sweet little man. At this point, nothing is ruled out. I do not suspect LE will show its cards to the public. Wish there was more to go on than what has been revealed. I am afraid this may turn into a cold case UNLESS Deorr was picked up wandering by a good person for whatever reason. That would be the best-case scenario at this point. So, so sad,

 

[babyback]

I don't want to go against Websleuthes policy on what can or cannot be posted, so I'm treading lightly. Do we know or have we seen reported, who has been ruled out as suspects? I've read that the parents have and also GGP and friend. Soooo, what does that leave us with?

 

[Jules71]

Let's go with the hour missing timeline and 20 of those minutes were spent searching. How does 40 minutes look for an abduction with no evidence of one? How far away could a perp get on foot in 40 minutes to dispose of him that would have been outside of the search parameters (and still get back to the area to go unnoticed)?

If ggf's friend was fishing in the creek, when did he return or did the parents run across him in their search for Jr?

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[babyback]

Apparently the search parameter was a radius of 2 or 2 and 1/2 mile radius.
[video=youtube;KJ5jneZnzws]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ5jneZnzws[/video]

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

2 Part Question:

Is it completely optional for Lemhi County to hand over the complete investigation files to the FBI?

And if so:

How usual is it for this to happen?

 

[4senthia]

IMO a child predator is like lightening. It strikes without warning. "It" has no normal thought process and is running on adrenaline.
The desire to take someone's child is revolting to all of us. But not to the predator. They are only concerned about their wants/perceived needs.
Quite possibly one was roaming the area like a bear or wolf does. I think he saw DeOrr before. Maybe @the store. Maybe w/binoculars from a greater distance. Maybe climbing up a fire tower.
As far as escape w/the toddler, I think an ATV would be too loud. But the phantom perp could have had another vehicle waiting about a 1/2 mile away.
I don't think LE is going to tell us whether they are working this angle.
True enough, people don't disappear. Things don't disappear. They change their state of being.
jmho

 

[4senthia]

Apparently the search parameter was a radius of 2 or 2 and 1/2 mile radius.
[video=youtube;KJ5jneZnzws]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ5jneZnzws[/video]

Thanks. I'd like to know how long it was before it was designated to be the search area. Like immediately or did it expand out which makes sense.
It wasn't a closed scene in the true meaning of the phrase. No way or no one would have been there contaminating the H2O.
jmho

 

[babyback]

Apparently the search parameter was a radius of 2 or 2 and 1/2 mile radius.

From what I'm reading it would take someone about 40 minutes @ 3 mph, accepted as the "average walking speed" However, if they were parked close enough that time would be cut down considerably.

 

[rkf]

This is an active investigation and typical LE speak until there is a definitive answer of what happened to this sweet little man. At this point, nothing is ruled out. I do not suspect LE will show its cards to the public. Wish there was more to go on than what has been revealed. I am afraid this may turn into a cold case UNLESS Deorr was picked up wandering by a good person for whatever reason. That would be the best-case scenario at this point. So, so sad,

ITA. I also agree with another poster that if LE thought there was a stranger abductor out there, they would be warning the public. I think the sheriff has nearly endless patience - a characteristic I sadly lack!

 

[rkf]

I don't want to go against Websleuthes policy on what can or cannot be posted, so I'm treading lightly. Do we know or have we seen reported, who has been ruled out as suspects? I've read that the parents have and also GGP and friend. Soooo, what does that leave us with?

Bowerman said everyone at the campsite is considered a person of interest in the case, however, none of them are suspects -- this includes the parents, the child's great-grandfather and family friend Isaac Reinwand.

http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/DeOrr-Kunz-Missing-Idaho-320303121.html

 

[bessie]

"There is no evidence suggesting DeOrr was abducted," the sheriff said
.
Bowerman said search dogs had shown an interest earlier this month in a reservoir, but that it was later learned a local woman scattered the ashes of a cremated loved one into the water, misleading the cadaver dogs.

There is also no sign the toddler was attacked by the bears, mountain lions and wolves known to roam the area, he said.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731?irpc=932

I wonder if that will change when the FBI completes its analysis of the collected evidence.

 

[bessie]

I don't want to go against Websleuthes policy on what can or cannot be posted, so I'm treading lightly. Do we know or have we seen reported, who has been ruled out as suspects? I've read that the parents have and also GGP and friend. Soooo, what does that leave us with?

No one has been ruled out as a suspect, but nor has anyone been ruled "in".

Sheriff Bowerman said the four adults were persons of interest because they were at the scene, which is not in any way unusual. In many cases, parents are POI's by default when children go missing. It depends on the circumstances.

The sheriff was careful to add that the four adults were NOT suspects.

 

[rkf]

IMO a child predator in like lightening. It strikes without warning. "It" has no normal thought process and is running on adrenaline.
The desire to take someone's child is revolting to all of us. But not to the predator. They are only concerned about their wants/perceived needs.
Quite possibly one was roaming the area like a bear or wolf does. I think he saw DeOrr before. Maybe @the store. Maybe w/binoculars from a greater distance. Maybe climbing up a fire tower.
As far as escape w/the toddler, I think an ATV would be too loud. But the phantom perp could have had another vehicle waiting about a 1/2 mile away.
I don't think LE is going to tell us whether they are working this angle.
True enough, people don't disappear. Things don't disappear. They change their state of being.
jmho

I can't wrap my mind around how lucky a perp would have to be. What are the chances of finding a toddler, unattended for at least ten minutes, in the wilderness? It's one thing to turn your head to put a dress back on the rack at a mall store, to have your child slip out of sight. 1. There are a lot more people around, raising the chance that a child out of site for 10 seconds could cross paths with a pedophile. 2. It's a split second distraction - not ten, twenty or 60 minutes. Even if a perp knew DeOrr was at the camp ground, why would he think he would have the chance to snatch him? I can't speak for others, and as I said, I'm not a camper (but have always hiked, even with kids). I would never feel comfortable enough to leave my two year-old playing in my own fenced yard, much less a campsite bordered by a fast-moving creek, without making sure he had a competent and responsible adult watching him. If ggp is truly on oxygen 24 hours/day, I find it hard to believe his parents would leave their toddler next to the fire with ggp's oxygen tank nearby. IIRC, JM is a home health care aide, so she would know the danger of mixing heat and pure oxygen. That story doesn't make sense. JMO

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I wonder if that will change when the FBI completes its analysis of the collected evidence.

It displays a certain confidence to hand over everything has they have. It could also leave egg on their face.....

Will the FBI findings be made public do you think?