ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[relay]

Sheriff Bowerman reminds me of an Andy Griffith type official. Just a good ol boy, aw shucks, don't know if there are any cameras.

And yet he's able to organize this:

"The primary searchers included multiple agencies such as, Salmon Search & Rescue, The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office, The Bonneville County Sheriff’s Office & Bonneville County Search & Rescue, Salmon PD, Idaho Fish & Game, multiple canine handlers, divers,"

Add in the infrared helicopter.

Plus the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children sent an agent from Wyoming who is familiar with the mountainous terrain.

I'm 99% sure Bowerman pulled out every resource he had available. I'd love to hear what he really thinks happened.

I also think Sheriff Bowerman and his deputies are doing there best to find little Deorr as have all who have been out searching for him.

 

[MsMarple]

O/T For anyone following Lonzie Barton's case, his mother Lonna was arrested tonight. Child neglect and giving false information to LE.

I wish Chief Hackney was in charge of Deorr's case - we'd have a lot more information.

 

[lesajo]

I am not sure how I feel about grand pop except that he was one of the last people to see Deorr alive. But I have always found it extremely odd his name was with held for 5 weeks by LE, and media. Why was that courtesy given to him? Same with IR, his name was with held for three weeks, and completely omitted by mom and dad in their only main interview. Both odd to me.

This was in response to a post by pinkdragon..I am new at this and was attempting a reply . ..I will have to figure out this site. Newbie here

 

[kammiemc]

Sheriff Bowerman reminds me of an Andy Griffith type official. Just a good ol boy, aw shucks, don't know if there are any cameras.

And yet he's able to organize this:

"The primary searchers included multiple agencies such as, Salmon Search & Rescue, The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office, The Bonneville County Sheriff’s Office & Bonneville County Search & Rescue, Salmon PD, Idaho Fish & Game, multiple canine handlers, divers,"

Add in the infrared helicopter.

Plus the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children sent an agent from Wyoming who is familiar with the mountainous terrain.

I'm 99% sure Bowerman pulled out every resource he had available. I'd love to hear what he really thinks happened.

Yeah, he deserves a break. Imagine the pressure on such a small operation.


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[katydid23]

I also think Sheriff Bowerman and his deputies are doing there best to find little Deorr as have all who have been out searching for him.

I agree. I know that some commented that they thought he seemed unemotional during the interview. I didn't get that impression. I thought he was stifling or suppressing what he really felt and what he really wanted to say. JMO

 

[starfire]

I just watched the video of the parents. The mother knows something. She looks very scared, but not the way a scared parent who has no idea what happened to her child does IMO. I think the parents believe someone has him and I believe the mother has ideas of who or why. I firmly believe after everything I have seen, read etc that this disappearance has something to do with the grandfather. MOO

Do you mean little Deorr's great grandfather, who was on the trip, or his paternal grandfather, who he lives with but wasn't on the trip?

An accident involving him or?

 

[starfire]

In the Sheriff's description of the three people at the campground: IR was truthful and the parents were good.

Which definition is the strongest to you - truthful or good?

Truthful is stronger than good to me.

 

[thepinkdragon]

Do you mean little Deorr's great grandfather, who was on the trip, or his paternal grandfather, who he lives with but wasn't on the trip?

An accident involving him or?

The great grandfather, who was supposed to be watching him, that no one has gotten an interview with...etc... Seems way too fishy to me

 

[Arnie M]

.

As I said earlier , it is doubtful DeOrr headed in the direction of his parents , otherwise they would have encountered him on their way back to the campsite

Most likely DeOrr headed in the opposite direction because he saw Issac go that way earlier (without Issac realizing it , or knowing it)

Green X marks the campsite
Red dot parents
Lavender dot approximately Issac
Orange dot steep creek bank

Most likely the child stepped over the edge of the steep bank and tumbled into the creek , just a bounce or two and he is in the water , no scent trail for dogs to follow

Look at the creek , many deep spots , water runs over large rocks , around large rocks , and under large rocks. The body is likely caught deep under one of those rocks , held there by the undercurrent , invisible to searchers , not traceable by dogs

It even looks like the water stream percolates underground in one place and rejoins again on the left side at 1:57 in the video

Plenty of places to trap a small body that is 1/10 the the size of some rocks
And the water current running under the rock will hold it there for a long time.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/


.

 

[Elena]

In the Sheriff's description of the three people at the campground: IR was truthful and the parents were good.

Which definition is the strongest to you - truthful or good?

Truthful = telling the truth
“I’m not getting any feeling that he’s not being truthful,” Bowerman said. “He’s come up to the area on a second occasion with me, and I think he’s been very truthful and I appreciate his help.”
Sheriff said truthful twice, and he appreciate IR's help. So I interpret truthful is stronger than cooperative.

In the other hand, cooperative, doesn't always mean telling the truth.
“Those three have been very cooperative,” Bowerman said. “They’ve given us everything we ask for, and I feel real good about the parents and the grandfather.”
Sheriff knows those 3 are withholding information, which haven't been asked for. 3 POIs only answered what LE asked them, but leave out parts that hasn't been asked. Also no mention about their answers being truthful. Since it was in Sheriff language earlier, and he chose not to use it again when describing the other 3 POIs' answers, I take it as Sheriff sees deception in any or all of their answers.

 

[Groundwork]

Truthful is stronger than good to me.

I agree.

 

[Bethan]

This is SO frustrating!
We know virtually Nothing about the Great Grandpa. We've only just learned his name.
And then this "FRIEND"?
What exactly WAS his relationship to Gt Grandpa?
If this old man is mentally impaired, as we are told, WHO would leave their vulnerable elderly relative alone with a stranger?
Never mind, leave their 2 year old anywhere NEAR a strange man they've never MET before???
In the middle of nowhere, surrounded by potential natural hazards??
A TWO YEAR OLD!
Not a TEN year old.
Even then, I would be vigilant.

As a mother to four lively, adventurous children, who have safely transitioned to adulthood, only NOW can I relax my guard as a parent/guardian.

I still managed to lose children, on more than one occasion, despite my vigilance. I was lucky there were no predators lurking in the wings.

Sad, and angry, for this small vulnerable child.


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[ILOKAL]

.

As I said earlier , it is doubtful DeOrr headed in the direction of his parents , otherwise they would have encountered him on their way back to the campsite

Most likely DeOrr headed in the opposite direction because he saw Issac go that way earlier (without Issac realizing it , or knowing it)

Green X marks the campsite
Red dot parents
Lavender dot approximately Issac
Orange dot steep creek bank

Most likely the child stepped over the edge of the steep bank and tumbled into the creek , just a bounce or two and he is in the water , no scent trail for dogs to follow

Look at the creek , many deep spots , water runs over large rocks , around large rocks , and under large rocks. The body is likely caught deep under one of those rocks , held there by the undercurrent , invisible to searchers , not traceable by dogs

It even looks like the water stream percolates underground in one place and rejoins again on the left side at 1:57 in the video

Plenty of places to trap a small body that is 1/10 the the size of some rocks
And the water current running under the rock will hold it there for a long time.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/


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View attachment 80253 View attachment 80252 View attachment 80251

Arnie, are those actual photos of Timber Creek by the campground? If so, I had NO idea there's such strong rushing current. I pictured the creek as quite delicate with a pebble bottom that's crystal clear with little if any current. Those photos look like white water rapids to me. How long is Timber Creek and where does it empty into?

 

[travelbug]

I have brought these 2 videos forward from the beginning of the disappearance. The first one has an excellent shot of the section of the creek, nearest the campsite, just after the disappearance. The second one has some pictures of the reservoir search, the campsite, the terrain and even a picture of Deorr in his camo jacket:

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-disappearance-a-timeline-of-events/

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...-year-old-continues-in-lemhi-county/30058523/

 

[catswhiskers]

7:04
Nate Eaton:
“Can you say anything about how Isaac ended up on the trip?”

7:10
Sheriff Bowerman:
“I hate to go into too many details. I mean, obviously there’s a relationship between him and, and grandpa, you know. Um…You know, I mean…they’re…they’re friends…uh…but prior to that trip he had never met mom or dad. “

Snipped from TxJan1975's transcript ... this bit jumped out at me as I watched the unedited interview. It just seemed like a bit too much umming and ahhing while avoiding the topic of their relationship. I know we aren't entitled to know all their personal details, but his response makes me more curious. I wonder what LE made of NE's doorstop interview with IR? They must know how darn odd it seemed to everyone else - just woken from a deep sleep or not, that doorknob groping was too strange.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

Out of habit, from the beginning I've been regularly tracking media coverage, etc. on this case and feel it is my duty to take a bit of a stand as far as Nate is concerned. He's been getting a bum deal IMO and doesn't get the credit he deserves. Furthermore, I believe he is being disrespected when in fact he does seem to be the "lead" as far as Deorr is concerned. Let me go find the information I have under him to put things in perspective.

If I knew how to copy multiple quotes, I could give kudos to everybody who stood up on this issue. Nate has been the one at least trying to keep the story alive, and has made an avenue for people to contact him. Plus he knocked on IR's door - something I would not have done. Anyway, I appreciate Nate also and accept that he is not perfect, but he is at least in there swinging.

 

[Cardinal47]

I think this story got legs when it was on the Nancy Grace show. It caught the attention of websluethers everywhere.

Also I think it was well known in the inner circle of the investigation what day everybody arrived at the campsite.

They are holding it very close to the vest and I'm not sure why. Perhaps this small band of le and reporters have been overwhelmed with all the interest from outside their comfort zones.

Thank goodness they have the experts to help and direct them.

I had kind of focused on the reservoir and drowning with his little body not found. But somebody reminded us what his father said about him unable to make it up the path to the reservoir.

So I am back to square one. This is a tough one.

Moo

 

[Cardinal47]

I just watched the video of the parents. The mother knows something. She looks very scared, but not the way a scared parent who has no idea what happened to her child does IMO. I think the parents believe someone has him and I believe the mother has ideas of who or why. I firmly believe after everything I have seen, read etc that this disappearance has something to do with the grandfather. MOO

I think you are right on. He could be anywhere.

 

[ClaireNC]

.

As I said earlier , it is doubtful DeOrr headed in the direction of his parents , otherwise they would have encountered him on their way back to the campsite

Most likely DeOrr headed in the opposite direction because he saw Issac go that way earlier (without Issac realizing it , or knowing it)

Green X marks the campsite
Red dot parents
Lavender dot approximately Issac
Orange dot steep creek bank

Most likely the child stepped over the edge of the steep bank and tumbled into the creek , just a bounce or two and he is in the water , no scent trail for dogs to follow

Look at the creek , many deep spots , water runs over large rocks , around large rocks , and under large rocks. The body is likely caught deep under one of those rocks , held there by the undercurrent , invisible to searchers , not traceable by dogs

It even looks like the water stream percolates underground in one place and rejoins again on the left side at 1:57 in the video

Plenty of places to trap a small body that is 1/10 the the size of some rocks
And the water current running under the rock will hold it there for a long time.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/


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View attachment 80253 View attachment 80252 View attachment 80251

Thanks for finding that video of the creek. It certainly does look like the creek is larger than I thought. I wonder if any of the media stations have any more footage of the area that they have not published. It would be great to get some more images of the area.

I send an email to East Idaho News asking if they have any more images or footage. It might be worth sending the same request to some other stations.

 

[ClaireNC]

I think this story got legs when it was on the Nancy Grace show. It caught the attention of websluethers everywhere.

Also I think it was well known in the inner circle of the investigation what day everybody arrived at the campsite.

They are holding it very close to the vest and I'm not sure why. Perhaps this small band of le and reporters have been overwhelmed with all the interest from outside their comfort zones.

Thank goodness they have the experts to help and direct them.

I had kind of focused on the reservoir and drowning with his little body not found. But somebody reminded us what his father said about him unable to make it up the path to the reservoir.

So I am back to square one. This is a tough one.

Moo

Personally, I think there is something off with the grandfather's comments that little DeOrr can't walk on level ground without falling. I just get an impression that DeOrr sr's father is the type of person that exaggerates when he speaks, like an old time story-teller. There are just some people that generally do that when they speak.

In the long interview, dad said "he's a goer and a mover but he does not go away from his parents" and "He's pretty small for his age but he moves pretty good, and that was our concern." I don't think little DeOrr had that much trouble getting around. He is 2 1/2, not a toddler just learning to walk. IMO