We can even share the link if you'd like to include anything that you prepare (or anyone else that's interested for that matter) Let me get it up and you can help me test it out. I'll message you when I'm ready to test.
ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9
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We can even share the link if you'd like to include anything that you prepare (or anyone else that's interested for that matter) Let me get it up and you can help me test it out. I'll message you when I'm ready to test.
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snip for brevity~~~
You are totally AMAZING, thank you for this TxJan 1971. How do I save a post so I can go back to it easily?
!!:happydance:
Mickshawn
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You are totally AMAZING, thank you for this!!:happydance:[/QUOTE]
Onebest....Are you a SAR dog handler? I have a dog question.....If GGP saw DeOrr toddling towards the creek or wherever he toddled, wouldn't the dogs have been able to follow his trail? (Even IF he eventually got picked up off the ground)
I think you said aways back that they kept returning to the campsite because they didn't find anything....Am I remembering this right???
Thanks!!
Onebest....Are you a SAR dog handler? I have a dog question.....If GGP saw DeOrr toddling towards the creek or wherever he toddled, wouldn't the dogs have been able to follow his trail? (Even IF he eventually got picked up off the ground)
I think you said aways back that they kept returning to the campsite because they didn't find anything....Am I remembering this right???
Thanks!!
I don't have a trailing dog, only a cadaver dog but to the best of my knowledge IF the dog was scented on little Deoor and IF little Deoor walked to the creek then that is where the dog would go. SOME dogs can follow scent even if the person was carried.
My personal opinion is that the dogs returned to camp from the reservoir because that is where the trail ended that they were following OR they could have picked up a return trail depending on their path OR gone back to hunt for another direction of travel. The handler would know much more by reading their own dog. I wish I could ask them questions like did both dogs follow the same path? Was it directly out and back on the same pattern? Was it straight or scattered like maybe a baby would walk? These things come to my mind and I am sure the Sheriff has most likely has pondered these things.
Think of scent kinda like "pig pen" or puffs of smoke... Its skin rafts and they flow off a person everywhere. Heavier on the foot falls, moves around with the wind, dust, another person, etc. The dog is following that scent.
I am so very far from being an expert in trailing! Just what I have been taught over the years from people much wiser then I am. Many K9 Handlers will have different opinions of course, and I could be very wrong on mine.
ClaireNC
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Sounds great!
Mickshawn
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I don't have a trailing dog, only a cadaver dog but to the best of my knowledge IF the dog was scented on little Deoor and IF little Deoor walked to the creek then that is where the dog would go. SOME dogs can follow scent even if the person was carried.
My personal opinion is that the dogs returned to camp from the reservoir because that is where the trail ended that they were following OR they could have picked up a return trail depending on their path OR gone back to hunt for another direction of travel. The handler would know much more by reading their own dog. I wish I could ask them questions like did both dogs follow the same path? Was it directly out and back on the same pattern? Was it straight or scattered like maybe a baby would walk? These things come to my mind and I am sure the Sheriff has most likely has pondered these things.
Think of scent kinda like "pig pen" or puffs of smoke... Its skin rafts and they flow off a person everywhere. Heavier on the foot falls, moves around with the wind, dust, another person, etc. The dog is following that scent.
I am so very far from being an expert in trailing! Just what I have been taught over the years from people much wiser then I am. Many K9 Handlers will have different opinions of course, and I could be very wrong on mine.[/QUOTE]
~~Thanks so much....So, it's possible they took a walk with DeOrr in the a.m. before the store trip to see the Reservoir and then walked back....hence the trail there and back....Such a mystery...but so fascinating, too...
You have excellent questions and I'd also love to know the answers...
Wow...skin rafts....so amazing, a dog's sense of smell. (So amazing walking with my own dogs...They are Full Time smell detectives!)
Do YOU think the cremains event was messing up the dogs??? (Sorry if you already answered this....my head is spinning with all these thoughts).
My personal opinion is that the dogs returned to camp from the reservoir because that is where the trail ended that they were following OR they could have picked up a return trail depending on their path OR gone back to hunt for another direction of travel. The handler would know much more by reading their own dog. I wish I could ask them questions like did both dogs follow the same path? Was it directly out and back on the same pattern? Was it straight or scattered like maybe a baby would walk? These things come to my mind and I am sure the Sheriff has most likely has pondered these things.
Think of scent kinda like "pig pen" or puffs of smoke... Its skin rafts and they flow off a person everywhere. Heavier on the foot falls, moves around with the wind, dust, another person, etc. The dog is following that scent.
I am so very far from being an expert in trailing! Just what I have been taught over the years from people much wiser then I am. Many K9 Handlers will have different opinions of course, and I could be very wrong on mine.[/QUOTE]
~~Thanks so much....So, it's possible they took a walk with DeOrr in the a.m. before the store trip to see the Reservoir and then walked back....hence the trail there and back....Such a mystery...but so fascinating, too...
You have excellent questions and I'd also love to know the answers...
Wow...skin rafts....so amazing, a dog's sense of smell. (So amazing walking with my own dogs...They are Full Time smell detectives!)
Do YOU think the cremains event was messing up the dogs??? (Sorry if you already answered this....my head is spinning with all these thoughts).
LOL I have no idea.
You can always just post a request in the room and I'll most likely see it or even PM me and I'll post it.
You can always just PM me or post in the room what you want and I'll share.
Arnie M
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.
People get fixated on the scent of the child from the moment he went missing , as though that would be what dogs would track
Doesn't work that way. The child had been there since the previous day and his scent should be in many places around the campground
Unless he was kept beside the fire pit for those 17 hours , but that seems unlikely. Even allowing 7 hours for sleep leaves 10 active hours
The only way a tracking dog would be useful is if a scent trail led away from the area he had commonly been in ..... and we know that did not happen , so either the child is still within the campground area (water) , or the dogs were no good , or he was carried away , or was driven away from the campground
To be carried away or driven away requires 4 nearly blind people , or 4 people who have done a magnificent job of sticking to a fictional story.
People get fixated on the scent of the child from the moment he went missing , as though that would be what dogs would track
Doesn't work that way. The child had been there since the previous day and his scent should be in many places around the campground
Unless he was kept beside the fire pit for those 17 hours , but that seems unlikely. Even allowing 7 hours for sleep leaves 10 active hours
The only way a tracking dog would be useful is if a scent trail led away from the area he had commonly been in ..... and we know that did not happen , so either the child is still within the campground area (water) , or the dogs were no good , or he was carried away , or was driven away from the campground
To be carried away or driven away requires 4 nearly blind people , or 4 people who have done a magnificent job of sticking to a fictional story.
According to our new and wonderful dog thread:
the cremains were dumped on July 2.
So once again I was misreading the Sheriff's words of "dumping them while we were searching".
The timeline says July 2. It also says the "dumper" was stopped and questioned by a Ranger.
From TxJan's post--
>July 17, 2015
Cadaver Dogs:
Police divers have been methodically searching every square inch of the reservoir for the little boy after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. However, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman tells HLN they just learned that someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, <
>July 23, 2015
KBOI 2 TV reports July 2 that someone went into the area where they were searching and scattered a family member's ashes. The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office says that this put scent dogs on the wrong trail.<
>Sheriff Bowerman:
“Right! Unbeknownst to us while we were doing our grid search, someone came in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one at that site, and I’m assuming it’s a favorite site of their loved one, and without thinking, they deposited cremains, not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene and what it would do.<
>and then we find out from one of our BLM (?) Rangers that they stopped this individual coming out and were informed they had deposited some cremains in the reservoir.”<
I guess I don't understand what the sheriff is saying. If the cremains were dumped on July 2?
jmho
jmho
the cremains were dumped on July 2.
So once again I was misreading the Sheriff's words of "dumping them while we were searching".
The timeline says July 2. It also says the "dumper" was stopped and questioned by a Ranger.
From TxJan's post--
>July 17, 2015
Cadaver Dogs:
Police divers have been methodically searching every square inch of the reservoir for the little boy after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. However, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman tells HLN they just learned that someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, <
>July 23, 2015
KBOI 2 TV reports July 2 that someone went into the area where they were searching and scattered a family member's ashes. The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office says that this put scent dogs on the wrong trail.<
>Sheriff Bowerman:
“Right! Unbeknownst to us while we were doing our grid search, someone came in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one at that site, and I’m assuming it’s a favorite site of their loved one, and without thinking, they deposited cremains, not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene and what it would do.<
>and then we find out from one of our BLM (?) Rangers that they stopped this individual coming out and were informed they had deposited some cremains in the reservoir.”<
I guess I don't understand what the sheriff is saying. If the cremains were dumped on July 2?
jmho
jmho
Hh
~~Thanks so much....So, it's possible they took a walk with DeOrr in the a.m. before the store trip to see the Reservoir and then walked back....hence the trail there and back....Such a mystery...but so fascinating, too...
You have excellent questions and I'd also love to know the answers...
Wow...skin rafts....so amazing, a dog's sense of smell. (So amazing walking with my own dogs...They are Full Time smell detectives!)
Do YOU think the cremains event was messing up the dogs??? (Sorry if you already answered this....my head is spinning with all these thoughts).[/QUOTE]
Yes, I totally believe the cremains messed up the cadaver dog. My gut says a tiny body can be missed but I believe they did an incredible job searching the water both Creek and Reservoir and probably still are.
~~Thanks so much....So, it's possible they took a walk with DeOrr in the a.m. before the store trip to see the Reservoir and then walked back....hence the trail there and back....Such a mystery...but so fascinating, too...
You have excellent questions and I'd also love to know the answers...
Wow...skin rafts....so amazing, a dog's sense of smell. (So amazing walking with my own dogs...They are Full Time smell detectives!)
Do YOU think the cremains event was messing up the dogs??? (Sorry if you already answered this....my head is spinning with all these thoughts).[/QUOTE]
Yes, I totally believe the cremains messed up the cadaver dog. My gut says a tiny body can be missed but I believe they did an incredible job searching the water both Creek and Reservoir and probably still are.
ClaireNC
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If you go back to the source you will see it was a typo. The source article should have said it was reported on July 23. They left off the 3. July 23 is the day the article about the cremains was written, not the day the cremains were dumped.
Maybe it's late. Maybe the newspaper had a misprint. Maybe I'm loopy from lack of sleep last night or crying because I broke my ipad tonight :crying:
Let me pause and check out that "July 2" person dumped the remains date. That would have been BEFORE Deorr went missing? Right? Didn't he go missing on July 10? (Have to go check).
EDIT
Check out ClaireNC post above mine! Will fix it on the Dog Statements and Repost.
Help me out, Claire. Found this article just now and it's dated the 17th and says Sheriff was just notified someone was dumping cremains and the 17th is before 23rd. 23rd therefore can't be correct either. Could it have been as early as the 12th? He went missing on the 10th. Two days later (while they were still searching) could it have been the 1 that was missing? Hmmm
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted
UPDATE:
Found this, too, but hard to tell when specifically the cremains were dumped. We know when he TOLD HLN (July 17).
On Friday, (which would have been Friday, July 17) Bowerman told HLN they learned someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that could be the smell the dogs picked up on.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...ack-campground-search-efforts-for-deorr-kunz/
There's a FB post stating "a few days after the search began" which is a bit more consistent with the date of the cremains dumping being on July 12 (since the news article only had a 2 and a # was missing). Anyone else find anything more definitive out there as to the actual date the cremains were dumped in the reservoir?
https://www.facebook.com/idahomissingalert/posts/706693656101867
https://www.facebook.com/idahomissingalert/posts/706693656101867
ClaireNC
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It was the CNN article that first reported about the cremains. I remember that distinctly. We kept checking the news for more info. So yes it was first reported on July 17. The July 23 date was just the date that another newspaper picked up the story here: http://www.kboi.com/2015/07/23/new-details-out-on-the-search-for-deorr/ . You linked an Examiner article which is where the mistake was made with the July 2 date. The Examiner author was trying to say that KBOI published a story on July 23 about the cremains being dumped, but worded it in a way that could be misinterpreted to say the cremains were dumped that day.
I hope that makes sense, because typing it made my brain hurt.
FYI, We generally do not link to Examiner articles, they are not considered a reliable source. However, they do have a good video with some images of SAR searching the creek.
Thank you for explaining! I'm going with "on the 17th Sheriff told HLN someone dumped cremains..." and no specific dumping date was stated. (I may even keep the Examiner article info but take out the date - draw an underline - and add a notation that the 17th article is more accurate - or I may just delete it to avoid confusion). I'll revisit it to tomorrow and decide when my brain isn't saying, time for bed!
Thanks again for helping me sort it out. If Nate is reading or another reporter, maybe they can add it to a list of things to see if we can get clarification on. Otherwise, no problem. We'll make due with what we have.
When discussing the designation of "Person of Interest" in the Deorr case, many folks said that it simply meant that LE wanted to continue questioning the POIs and it didn't necessarily mean anything negative, just that they were there, etc. But, according to the article about Dylan Redwine, the designation of POI for Mark Redwine sounds much more suspicious. Now I am not sure what to think about the POI designation for those camping with little Deorr.
That (person of interest) designation was based on evidence collected, inconsistent statements made by Mark Redwine, and his behavior throughout the investigation, the sheriffs office wrote in a press release."
neesaki
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This is great news after what, three or more years? What a tragedy.
I am now a little confused though, as to what the difference is in this man who is a POI versus the family and friend of Deorr, who have also been labeled as POI's. Wasn't Dylan's father the last to have seen him, so therefore wasn't he always a POI? Can someone explain or clarify the difference in these two cases for me ? TIA- Status